|
|
Post by scumbum on Mar 12, 2017 15:42:08 GMT -6
How did they mix doubled vocals back in the 60's and how do they do it today ? Is it common to keep both vocal tracks at the same level ? Or is the doubled turned down a little behind the main vocal ?
It sounds like in the 60's both vocal tracks were kept at the same level ? Correct ?
|
|
|
|
Post by donr on Mar 12, 2017 16:10:36 GMT -6
It was the fashion in the 60's to mix doubles about equal. As a listener, I liked catching phrases in pop hits where the double wasn't perfect, and you realized you were listening to two performances. One example is the out chorus of Leslie Gore's "It's My Party." She does a vocal flourish that's not accurately doubled. Today you'd fix that, but in those days it was probably too hard to get it perfect, likely live bouncing the double to another track or tape deck.
The vocal for "Don't Fear The Reaper" is a double, but it's tucked behind the first vocal, for texture primarily. I don't know what the kids are doing today. Maybe someone here can tell me. : )
|
|
|
|
Post by scumbum on Mar 12, 2017 21:25:13 GMT -6
It was the fashion in the 60's to mix doubles about equal. As a listener, I liked catching phrases in pop hits where the double wasn't perfect, and you realized you were listening to two performances. One example is the out chorus of Leslie Gore's "It's My Party." She does a vocal flourish that's not accurately doubled. Today you'd fix that, but in those days it was probably too hard to get it perfect, likely live bouncing the double to another track or tape deck. The vocal for "Don't Fear The Reaper" is a double, but it's tucked behind the first vocal, for texture primarily. I don't know what the kids are doing today. Maybe someone here can tell me. : ) So the Beatles probably mixed both vocals at an equal level too . They usually always had that doubled vocal sound . I like it when johns vocals don't match up perfectly . Paul seemed to line up both vocal takes really close to each other . i read Bowie could double vocals so close you couldn't tell they were doubled. |
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Mar 12, 2017 22:04:32 GMT -6
It was the fashion in the 60's to mix doubles about equal. As a listener, I liked catching phrases in pop hits where the double wasn't perfect, and you realized you were listening to two performances. One example is the out chorus of Leslie Gore's "It's My Party." She does a vocal flourish that's not accurately doubled. Today you'd fix that, but in those days it was probably too hard to get it perfect, likely live bouncing the double to another track or tape deck. The vocal for "Don't Fear The Reaper" is a double, but it's tucked behind the first vocal, for texture primarily. I don't know what the kids are doing today. Maybe someone here can tell me. : ) So the Beatles probably mixed both vocals at an equal level too . They usually always had that doubled vocal sound . I like it when johns vocals don't match up perfectly . Paul seemed to line up both vocal takes really close to each other . i read Bowie could double vocals so close you couldn't tell they were doubled. Hmmph. A lot of John's vocals were ADT (Automatic Double Tracking), depending on which you're talking about. If fact, as I understand it, ADT was invented for John. |
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Mar 13, 2017 0:03:39 GMT -6
I don't know what the kids are doing today. Maybe someone here can tell me. : ) Mostly meth I think. |
|
|
|
Post by rocinante on Mar 13, 2017 1:00:31 GMT -6
I do it enough. Mostly i like it in metal screaming but ive done it in choruses to other genres too. I was taught by a dude from the 60s to keep the level the same but adjust the reverb and compression to the second; giving it the apearence of lowering the volume. Imo its only applicable with artists who know how to work a mic and are able to repeat the performance exactly.
I usually adjust the reverb and add a slight delay but widen the room and compress heavier on one more than the other. Those adjustments will change up until I'm nearly done with the mix.
|
|
|
|
Post by jazznoise on Mar 13, 2017 4:43:06 GMT -6
Key difference in styles of DT would be that of using 2 takes at once and allowing the variation in performance to give changes in texture and tone, or the more pop-style one would be to get a "perfect" vocal take or comp and then have the singer listen to that in their headphones and attempt to duplicate it. This is for thickening and is not supposed to be heard as a new vocal in and of itself.
I mainly do the former. Typically I'll do things like run FX on one or tuck it in behind with different EQ or balance of mics (if I had a room mic on the singer). For some singers it doesn't suit at all, really works on others. Sometimes it's better just for choruses and other points where you might want some variation.
If you're a lazy git and didn't get a 2nd good vocal take you can always run it in autotune in parallel and feed that back in and use a slow attack time.
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Mar 13, 2017 7:22:37 GMT -6
1. Just doubled..
2. Doubled with a pitch up or down (singer does this)
3. Doubled with timing differences.
4. Doubled only on important phrases.
5. Doubled by different person/group.
6. Doubled by copying original track, adding chorus and pitch change and lower in mix (I do this in DAW).
7. Doubled by reamping through an amp to add room tone.
8. Doubled by same person but through different mic in different room/standing different place/further away/closer, etc..
9. Doubled by using leftover takes from the singer attempting to do the primary vocal, and then doing the rest of #6.
I've done all of those. Can't say that any single one has been a go-to, but most bands want the first 5. I do #6 sometimes when I feel the primary track is too thin. I've done #7 just for fun on a couple bands. #8 generally gets used when the band wants to do doubles that also end up as more ambience.
However, #9 is what I end up doing most of the time due to costs, time and performance limitations.
|
|
|
|
Post by donr on Mar 13, 2017 8:00:36 GMT -6
If you're a lazy git and didn't get a 2nd good vocal take you can always run it in autotune in parallel and feed that back in and use a slow attack time. This is a good tip. Tuning a copy of the primary vocal and running it with the original is good production trick that can sound better without really calling attention to the trickery. |
|
|
|
Post by jeremygillespie on Mar 13, 2017 8:26:55 GMT -6
I've done a few vocal tracking session with Bobby Caldwell, which are always a pleasure. He will sing a chorus 6 times. He always has me mute the vocal that he just sang, and then sings another pass as if it was the first. Mute that one, sing another. NEVER wants to hear the vocal he is doubling.
Then he comes in the control room, and before playback will walk over to the console and put the faders where he wants them. Hit play...
Instantly get "That" sound.
|
|
|
|
Post by ChaseUTB on Mar 13, 2017 13:46:27 GMT -6
That's is the Tupac method 👆 I do this as well but now with most Vox are single stack with ad libs. The double is usually for emphasis on key phrases wait hasn't that how it's always been 😂 I love the wall of Vox sound for hooks and choruses that stacking and panning can provide... Putch shifting is cool too to tuck in under the LD... I like to hear tighter vocal stacks than 2pac some are kinda loose others are perfect in the pocket which I tend to prefer...
|
|
