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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 6, 2017 14:27:54 GMT -6
I don't know why it took me so long to do this, but I finally downloaded Room Eq Wizard and used it to calibrate my sub. In short, REW has changed my life. If you've never used this software you're missing out. My room already sounds 2x as good since using it, however I still need some help. Those of you more experienced at reading waterfall plots, I'd appreciate your feedback on the following measurements. First some background: I'm in a small room, 8' ceilings, and awkwardly shaped. I've got a mix of acoustic treatment from GIK, RealTraps, and other broad band traps made by John Hunter. I've hit a point of diminished returns when it comes to buying bass traps etc. I have no more physical space so I can only replace current traps, with slightly better ones (which I'm slowly doing). I use Adam A7's with a Tannoy PS-110 Sub. Until now I always setup my sub by ear. I use ARC for additional room correction (more on that later) So after learning to use REW (thank you youtube), I first set volume levels using band limited pink noise sent to my sub and satellites separately. There seem to be a varying opinions on how loud you should set your sub in reference to your monitors but I basically followed instructions written by KRK for their monitors. However, I varied from these instructions a little in that I set the sub at 75 db, and my satellites at 80 db. This seemed like a better level to my ears. (plus 80 db coming from my sub made everything in my room shake, lol. It sounded waaay too loud for my tastes). Next I took a measurement, using REW, of my sub facing two different directions. The first facing me (which is how I've always had it setup), and the second facing horizontally between my two monitors. The difference was not sutble. The low end response was soooo much better with my sub facing horizontal that its not even worth showing you guys the waterfall plots. It was a huge improvement. After that I took several measurements, using different crossover points on my sub, and adjusting the volume level on my A7's. It basically breaks down like this: I used 3 different low pass filter points, each with 3 different volume settings on my A7's, resulting in 9 different measurements. Some adjustments made a big difference, some did not. I've included the best of the measurements below. I'm a little new at this so I'd appreciate some help interpreting the waterfall plots. I can upload the original REW measurement file if anyone wants it? Thanks in advance for the help. (BTW, don't bother trying to decipher my naming scheme, it only makes sense to me  )       |
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Post by ChaseUTB on Mar 7, 2017 0:46:10 GMT -6
Gold reminds me of a fletcher munson curve... I think Gols waterfall is also your best measurement here. At first I was going to say Green, however the high lows and low mid frequencies seem to be too much which may cause your mixes punch and thump... Sorry I can't help more as far as tracing/ debunking the actual plots ... Cool info though thanks, I will look into this 😀
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Post by javamad on Mar 7, 2017 5:29:07 GMT -6
Hi,
Can you post the room dimensions and the measuring position? It would help to interpret the waterfall graphs.
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 7, 2017 11:57:23 GMT -6
Hi guys, thx for the help.
Room dimensions are 16x16x8 (horrible I know). Mix position is off center because there is a small vocal booth in one corner. Measurement was taken at ear level, where I would normally sit. I have the A7's setup to form an equilateral triangle with my listening position.
Hope this helps.
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Post by svart on Mar 7, 2017 12:19:31 GMT -6
I've tried many times to calibrate subs to different monitors. I even used the auto calibration with my JBL LSR monitors/sub, but never was really happy with the result. I always ended up either bass-light or remained bass-heavy.
I eventually just did it by ear, by running as many of my favorite tracks through the system and tweaking the sub level until I was happy with how it sounded. I then mixed stuff and tested it on other systems and tweaked until I was happy.
I naturally like to mix a little bass heavy, so I set the sub a little hotter than it should be (to result in a mix with slightly less bass than I hear) and my mixes translate excellently now.
I really just couldn't get what I needed from looking at graphs and charts.
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 7, 2017 13:01:24 GMT -6
Gold reminds me of a fletcher munson curve... I think Gols waterfall is also your best measurement here. At first I was going to say Green, however the high lows and low mid frequencies seem to be too much which may cause your mixes punch and thump... Sorry I can't help more as far as tracing/ debunking the actual plots ... Cool info though thanks, I will look into this 😀 Yeah the dark green is a little bass heavy. subjectively the low end sounds too loud to my ears. Also I'm concerned that there's a pretty steep null around 150-170hz. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 7, 2017 13:44:21 GMT -6
I've tried many times to calibrate subs to different monitors. I even used the auto calibration with my JBL LSR monitors/sub, but never was really happy with the result. I always ended up either bass-light or remained bass-heavy. I eventually just did it by ear, by running as many of my favorite tracks through the system and tweaking the sub level until I was happy with how it sounded. I then mixed stuff and tested it on other systems and tweaked until I was happy. I naturally like to mix a little bass heavy, so I set the sub a little hotter than it should be (to result in a mix with slightly less bass than I hear) and my mixes translate excellently now. I really just couldn't get what I needed from looking at graphs and charts. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 7, 2017 13:48:33 GMT -6
I've tried many times to calibrate subs to different monitors. I even used the auto calibration with my JBL LSR monitors/sub, but never was really happy with the result. I always ended up either bass-light or remained bass-heavy. I eventually just did it by ear, by running as many of my favorite tracks through the system and tweaking the sub level until I was happy with how it sounded. I then mixed stuff and tested it on other systems and tweaked until I was happy. I naturally like to mix a little bass heavy, so I set the sub a little hotter than it should be (to result in a mix with slightly less bass than I hear) and my mixes translate excellently now. I really just couldn't get what I needed from looking at graphs and charts. That's what I've done Up to this point. However I always had trouble trusting my low end, specifically bass guitars have always been difficult to track/mix. Using the measurements I feel I have a better baseline (pun intended), but I think from here I may end up just doing the same, tweaking by ear. So far I'll say that I've already heard a big improvement from before. |
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Post by svart on Mar 7, 2017 13:56:41 GMT -6
I've tried many times to calibrate subs to different monitors. I even used the auto calibration with my JBL LSR monitors/sub, but never was really happy with the result. I always ended up either bass-light or remained bass-heavy. I eventually just did it by ear, by running as many of my favorite tracks through the system and tweaking the sub level until I was happy with how it sounded. I then mixed stuff and tested it on other systems and tweaked until I was happy. I naturally like to mix a little bass heavy, so I set the sub a little hotter than it should be (to result in a mix with slightly less bass than I hear) and my mixes translate excellently now. I really just couldn't get what I needed from looking at graphs and charts. That's what I've done Up to this point. However I always had trouble trusting my low end, specifically bass guitars have always been difficult to track/mix. Using the measurements I feel I have a better baseline (pun intended), but I think from here I may end up just doing the same, tweaking by ear. So far I'll say that I've already heard a big improvement from before. There is absolutely no way folks can accurately mix low end without a sub, or monitors that have a true bass driver. Even if a monitor claims to get down to 20/30Hz, a lot of that is just the box extension and not a true tone. You can feel the low end, but you can't judge the mix other than total bass content. I'm a firm believer in subs now. Even after I got the LSR sub, it took some getting used to, but now I couldn't live without it. |
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 7, 2017 14:43:51 GMT -6
Not to mention having a sub makes things so much more fun to listen to!
I'm like you, I like things just a little bass heavy when I mix too.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Mar 7, 2017 15:54:30 GMT -6
Precise the 100hz -200 hz in the green plot was too dense and peaking.. I feel gold is the most balanced " graph wise ". How does gold sound on your known reference material? Likensonhs younreference for mixes and masters ? I know meters and graphs and plots are awesome however if it sounds good and is translating to outside sources with minimal revisions, I would say you are good to go!
I understand we are all in pursuit of perfection and the last 5-10% is the hardest to squeeze out. I also understand how crucial it is to have your monitoring and room in accord, just don't go crazy cuz no one is listening to those graphs/ waterfall plots 😀
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Post by Tbone81 on Mar 8, 2017 13:46:08 GMT -6
Man you had me seriously laughing at that, "no one is listening to waterfall plots." Lol
I'll be the first to admit that I can get a little obsessive about this stuff.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Mar 8, 2017 14:38:04 GMT -6
Man you had me seriously laughing at that, "no one is listening to waterfall plots." Lol I'll be the first to admit that I can get a little obsessive about this stuff. I am right there with you. I obsess over minutae in mixes that most listeners will never hear even if i point it out to them 😂 |
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