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Post by malkit on Mar 3, 2017 13:28:05 GMT -6
Hi Folks,
Strange situation in the studio, last night.
I was recording vox via my u47 clone, and was getting some distortion above -14 dbfs on my DAW. Even below that, things were a little extra hairy and "vintage" sounding, if you will. The preamp I was using was a Phoenix DRS-2. I brought the preamp gain down to its lowest and the trim up, a bit, but still got clipping above -14 dbfs.
Then, I tried the stock preamps on my interface. I could reach close to 0 dbfs with no clipping. I swapped in a Danfield preamp, and it was the same story- no noticeable clipping. The sound was much cleaner and crisper, to boot.
Thinking the worst, I plugged my trusty 3u MK1D into the Phoenix preamp. No distortion up to and above 0 dbfs.
How is that possible? Impedance?
I know the output of the u47 is pretty hot, but I didn't realize it would make such a drastic change.
I've always heard the audio elite talk about matching mics to preamps, but I just assumed the differences would be barely audible to my green ears. Maybe not!
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Post by popmann on Mar 3, 2017 16:19:08 GMT -6
How are you connecting the Pheonix TO an interface? Most universal "idiot jack" inputs will add gain to an XLR signal. This will cause distortion in all but the weakest of +4 output units....they usually disable for the TRS part of the same jack, but the gain knob still works.... It is highly unlikely that a hot condenser head amp is the problem. It certainly will contribute to an issue elsewhere down the line simply because there's more voltage....but....it's not a "mismatch of mic and preamp". My guess would be you're plugging one preamp into another combined with not fully "getting" how the gain staging of the Pheonix works. I've used nearly line level modern LDCs with my LA610, which isn't known for ins of headroom....as well as Royers and Sm7 (on the lowest output end).... So, line level input to the interface....trim all the way UP on the Phenoix....set you level with the main gain knob on the Phoenix. Thought, I'll point out again, there's no NEED to go over -14dbfs. But, the reason for cutting down there is so you have plenty of forgiving headroom....which is sounds like you don't--so, you need to figure out the issue....and THEN don't go over that level anyway.  |
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Post by malkit on Mar 3, 2017 16:36:44 GMT -6
Thanks for the reply, Popmann.
In this case, I'm using a Konnekt48 and going into one of the 8 line inputs- all adjusted to take a +4 signal. I used the exact same input for both the Phoenix and the Danfield preamp, the latter of which yielded a lifetime of headroom. It would seem that the converter/interface isn't the issue, as far as I've tested.
What's strange is that the MK1D mic I have from 3u Audio works fine with the Phoenix. In fact, I was trying to do some distorted vocals for a project last week and I had a hard time getting it to distort pre-converters!
I do have a sinking feeling that I'm overlooking something obvious, but I've yet to put a finger on it. No idiot jack here...just an idiot.
;->
PS- And agreed- I learned the hard way, a year ago, to keep the levels in digital around -12dbfs and under. What a difference that made!!
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Post by drbill on Mar 3, 2017 16:42:59 GMT -6
Try an inline pad between your mic and the the phoenix. Doesn't sound like the problem is between your mic amps and your DAW A/D. Sounds like the Phoenix has more gain than your other pre's and is breaking up on the input from the hot output of the mic.
At least that's what it SOUNDS like from your text. Play around with pads, levels, drive / input gain, etc..
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 3, 2017 16:59:48 GMT -6
Yeah DB is probably right. Try an inline pad.
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Post by malkit on Mar 3, 2017 18:12:49 GMT -6
Thanks, gents. I'll give that pad a try, tomorrow.
Everything I've read about the Phoenix suggests that it has ample headroom, so hopefully...this will do it.
Enjoy the evening, fellas.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 3, 2017 18:29:52 GMT -6
Thanks for the reply, Popmann.
In this case, I'm using a Konnekt48 and going into one of the 8 line inputs- all adjusted to take a +4 signal. I used the exact same input for both the Phoenix and the Danfield preamp, the latter of which yielded a lifetime of headroom. It would seem that the converter/interface isn't the issue, as far as I've tested.
What's strange is that the MK1D mic I have from 3u Audio works fine with the Phoenix. In fact, I was trying to do some distorted vocals for a project last week and I had a hard time getting it to distort pre-converters!
I do have a sinking feeling that I'm overlooking something obvious, but I've yet to put a finger on it. No idiot jack here...just an idiot.
;->
PS- And agreed- I learned the hard way, a year ago, to keep the levels in digital around -12dbfs and under. What a difference that made!!
I've pulled beautiful distortion out of my Phoenix pre. If you want clean, crank the output fader and pull back the input. |
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