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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 3, 2017 12:07:50 GMT -6
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Post by Bender on Mar 3, 2017 14:02:33 GMT -6
interesting could definitely be a useful tool sometimes and save some headaches....though in that live video with the cutoff at 1kz I actually prefer the sounds with the bleed...just more lively if you ask me.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 3, 2017 16:40:18 GMT -6
I actually thought the same thing but was listening on the laptop.
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Post by iamasound on Mar 5, 2017 6:24:33 GMT -6
Bleed, a friend or not, this piqued my interest a bit a while six months or so ago. I believe that this bit of kit was brought up as a response to someone needing to use a ribbon though wishing not to pick up the signal from the rear. I have no idea how it might affect the tone, though probably not in the best of ways. For a front address mic it might work a tad better. www.performanceaudio.com/item/postaudio-arf-50/37546/?gclid=CJCwjYPolccCFQoKaQodXfgBhA |
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Post by jampa on Mar 5, 2017 23:37:21 GMT -6
I have and use Wilkinson Audio DeBleeder for the same tasks. I heard about it before Tominator and I haven't bothered to pick up both ah...
There are several programs for this sort of thing. Prior to using software I manually cut to silence in between tom hits and created fades in/out of hits. Then I heard about some technique to do that but duplicate and create a crossover:
use a high passed band and fade down quickly to secure the attack; and use a low passed band and fade down slowly for the note sustain.
These softwares just speed up that process with much the same results. But then these days I'm mostly leaving tom mics wide open lol. Sometimes I use sE IRF filters on tom mics but drummers often hit em and miss the drum!
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 6, 2017 8:43:00 GMT -6
I dunno..... I guess something like this could be useful for a person trying to make some sort of business taking in mix work from strangers who don't know their donkey from a hole in the ground but it seems to me that in the long run it's a really bad thing. If kids who are trying to learn the art and craft of recording are led to believe that they don't need to learn the basics of mic placement in tracking because they can "fix it in the mix" with snake oil bandaids like this. The problem is that while it may work to some degree as claimed, the "cure" is nearly always worse than the disease, as there is no way that any filtering, dynamic or not, can avoid having deliterious effects on the rest of the signal. I've seen videos by this guy before - I don't like them and I don't like him - I think he misleads a lot of people with his pushing of bad techniques and cheap (but costly) fixes. But then you can't make any money just telling somebody how to control the problem with mic placement - selling junk software is much more profitable. I found it hilarious when he was talking about John Bonham, given that the mic technique on Bonham's classic recordings was the exact opposite of what this guy is pushing. Two overheads and a kick could not be more different from the "the more mics the better and fix it in the mix" garbage this guy is touting... And I suspect that indescriminately taking in badly executed tracks and trying to "fix" them is a poor foundation for building a mix business. |
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Post by forgotteng on Mar 6, 2017 13:09:08 GMT -6
johneppstein, I tend to agree with you. In my early years I refused to use drum replacement software, not because it was evil but because I really wanted to learn how to make drums sound good. I worked my butt off for years trying to figure out how to record good drum sounds. Now I am one of the only guys in my area that specializes in recording real drums with all the character I can muster. While the other guys are fixing it in the mix I'm keeping it real. (or trying) I'm glad i didn't give in. It's more satisfying for me in particular. I do use some drum replacement nowadays to enhance the drum sounds but it's still mostly the recorded kit.
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Post by johneppstein on Mar 6, 2017 14:25:24 GMT -6
johneppstein , I tend to agree with you. In my early years I refused to use drum replacement software, not because it was evil but because I really wanted to learn how to make drums sound good. I worked my butt off for years trying to figure out how to record good drum sounds. Now I am one of the only guys in my area that specializes in recording real drums with all the character I can muster. While the other guys are fixing it in the mix I'm keeping it real. (or trying) I'm glad i didn't give in. It's more satisfying for me in particular. I do use some drum replacement nowadays to enhance the drum sounds but it's still mostly the recorded kit. In a way I find things like this plugin to be even more pernicious than replacement software. With replacement software "engineers" are simply giving up and using canned product whereas "tools" like this teach bad habits and foster people learning the wrong way to record. It's much harder to unlearn the wrong way of approaching a task than simply giving up on doing it. That being said, I'm not really a fan of drum replacement, either. I like microphones, and relatively few of them. |
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Post by jampa on Mar 6, 2017 22:51:52 GMT -6
Is there any way that someone can test this thing out? Where are all the engineers around here!
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Post by adamjbrass on Mar 7, 2017 10:24:46 GMT -6
I find using one ribbon microphone over the drums is best, because any cymbal bleed is equalized by the figure-eight pattern in the most musical way to my ears
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,963 
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Post by ericn on Mar 8, 2017 7:29:12 GMT -6
This is the thing about a lot of the new software tools that in many ways rather making it easy to just put up a bunch of plugins and go.
When it works it can be killer, the hard part is knowing when it's going work and that's why we make the big bucks, so they tell me!
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Post by forgotteng on Mar 8, 2017 7:37:09 GMT -6
Yea ericn, this drives me crazy. Years ago I partnered up with some gents to build a studio for them. They insisted it was a good idea to set up the entire drumkit, micing every tom etc. and then having each drummer only play the drums they wanted so it wouldn't take extra time setting up. They wanted me to build templates and plugin presets for their mixing and mastering so they could streamline their process and maximize profitability. After many fights we parted ways. |
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