Mastering: What are your expectations?

I expect someone who checks my mixes and is going to repair minor things.
I expect someone who advises me to remix something if I failed - can happen.

I don't expect to get a total different mix back.
I had test sessions where strings have been mixed in the background and with some of the stupid tools they where up front in the master

I had test sessions where they used on a nice song their stupid limiters and limited the shit out of it.

I want a ME with taste and feel for the music.
None of those who thinks he needs to show me all his tools.

I have found someone over the years, but I am nosy to try Bob O. next time.

There's a Mastering Engineer who lives relatively local to me. Despite working on albums by major bands that we all would have heard of, he offers a reduced rate for unsigned artists (his way to support the industry).
Despite knowing I'm severely limited artistically / recording / mixing wise, I phoned him one day just to ask about his services. I found making the call a bit daunting as I didn't know what to expect.We ended up chatting for ages about bands we liked and had seen, the various venues nearby etc.. No hard sell. No pressure. What he did offer was to have a listen and give feedback to any track I sent him before he touched it. 
Once I've raised my game a bit I will be using him for at least one album, just so I know what a real ME can do, and so I don't always wonder what if...?
He charges (not much, believe it or not) more than Aria and the likes, but I'll use him simply because I know I can chat with him about the process, obtain advice and change stuff accordingly, and because his work speaks for itself ( much same way as Bob O's does). 
He wasn't all grandiose, and I really felt he genuinely wanted to help and do the best for my music.

 M57 I think work of the quality you produce deserves a good mastering engineer. It's the 2-pack lacquer on a great paint job.

I expect it to sound like what I sent in but...... better, more "like a record". If there is something I've been unable to deal with hopefully the ME will be able to figure it out and take care of it.

Since a real ME with real mastering gear has more accurate EQ and can do some things I can't I expect some detail work to come back improved if needed.

Sometimes I'll provide notes on specific points that I feel require individual attention - Like "The "S" in such and such word  in the third line of the last verse has an annoying sibilance I haven't been able to adequately deal with".

I expect him to use his superior experience to be able to understand what I'm shooting for and implement that. I also expect the set of tracks I send in to work together to sound like an album, as they may have been recorded over the space of one or more years and may not have the same players on them.

And of course all the metadata stuff.

What I DO NOT want or expect and will not pay for is for something to come back drastically different from what I sent in. But that's not really a problem because I don't use people I don't trust.

I also DO NOT want it to come back sounding slammed or brickwalled, although I do expect a reasonable level that hopefully won't sound totally wimpy compared with other music of the same general type.

I don't master at all (To me doing that would defeat the purpose), but my music partner will do "fake mastering" for nonrelease purposes - he uses some sort of commercial mastering suite, I think Ozone.

Although I've actually been impressed by the "automated mastering" test that was conducted here I still would not use such a service, although it's a lot cheaper and faster because it cannot furnish what I expect from a good ME - experience, taste, and attention to individual detail. Machines are not able to provide those things, and I don't want my music processed through some sort of "cookie cutter" assembly line that uses some sort of algorithmic evaluation process.

"So for instance, if you were working with a pro - What's on the table? Obviously compression, but EQ, HP, LP, automation of any sort?"

Whatever is necessary to achive the desired result.

"Convince me I should be using a pro and not an automated system. What exactly are they doing (technically) that makes a difference?"

Listening (both to the music and to me) and thinking. Also they have access to hardware I don't have and can't afford (and might not know how to use properly if I did.)

" In other words, what specific kinds of things can I ask a pro to do that I can't ask an automaton to do?"

Listen. Think. Discuss my intent with me.

Automatons can't think and can't listen. They have no taste. They have no emotional response.

"What types of things can an M/E "fix?" "

Ok, here's a somewhat embarassing anecdote that provides a good answer - When we sent in my first album to Bob we'd been chasing a weird problem on mixes of a couple of songs where thing panned center in an LCR mix were not coming out centered and there was a weirdness in the low end. Almost immediately on receipt of the tracks Bob got back to me with the news that there was a phasing problem primarily on the low end of exactly the tracks we'd been having trouble with. I told him that we were aware of a problem but had tried everything we could think of and it still wouldn't go away and asked If he could do anything. He did, no problem, I'm not sure exactly what he did but it went away.  Later on, after considerably more hair tearing and redoing the processing chain on the 2 buss several times it turned out that one of the converters in the system had developed a flaky problem on all the odd (or maybe even, I don't remember) channels of conversion. It was present in one out of three 8-channel converters and of course it was the converter we had assigned to the mixdown channels. Since all the channels in the one box had the same problem, switching channel pairs in the box didn't help and we hadn't thought that it might be a problem specific to all the channels on one side of one converter box.

I'm in the same boat. A great space and gear, but not enough time to practice the art.

Don't want to trade, but I wish you could come and work here often.

Somebody mentioned "stems". Using stems is NOT MASTERING.

Using stems is REMIXING.

If a "mastering engineer" asked me for stems he would not get the job. Period. I'm not looking to have somebody impose his vision on my mix.

As far as I'm concerned, the only legitemate reason for anyone to ask for stems is if the music is to be used on a soundtrack for a movie or broadcast TV show, which would conceivably require remixing to, fopr example, duck the vocals a bit during dialog or similar video related requirements. And the guy who got the stems would NOT be a so-called "mastering engineer", he would be a professional film remix engineer, working for the director of the film. And I'd better see some bucks up front along with a contract that passes my lawyer's scrutiny. (Fat chance of this actually happening, but you never know...)

Odds are, though, that we'd just send remixes to meet the requirements, as "stems" don't exist in my analog mixing process.

Well, from this post it doesn't seem to me that I was talking about you. According to what you've said you accept stems but don't ask for them. That's fine, I guess - if the client doesn't trust his taste or abiolity to come up with a decent mix that's his problem. And if he wants his product slammed to thge point that it develops serious problems (probably including having people; want top turn it down - or off) that's his problem as well*.

I was specifically talking aboute "MEs" who ask for them or, dog forbid, insist on them.

And yeah, I was also getting a little dig in at people who lack confidence in their mixing abilities to the point where they want the ME to remix it for them.



* - I'd argue that it should be a good ME's responsibility to explain to the client that he really shouldn't want his stuff slammed like that, as it will have the exact opposite of the desired effect on radio or MP3 streaming services due to the way that the processing in those outlets interacts with a too loud program, but I understand that a lot of guys don't wanty scare off customers.

that really says a lot about who you are as a person. i'm stunned that you even wrote that online.

Mind you, I'm talking about the M/E keeping the stems at unity as @amassivemastering described, maybe making a small adjustment as necessary to balance whatever work they do at that level.

And I get it - or at least I think I get it. Mastering is not mixing.  I just wonder that M/Es who are willing to shift the paradigm of the job description may be in a better position to attract and please clientele who reside at the edges of the industry.

Yeah, I have mixed feelings about that. I understand that there are a lot of people who feel they need to do whatever it takes to bring cash through the door.

As far as clientele who reside at the edge of the industry are concerned, I question whether it's really a good idea to encourage those who don't have what it takes to do their own work, given the glut of unqualified people on both sides of the glass.

I dunno, there's a lot that I have to say about this from a lot of angles, but I'm not sure if this is the place to do it.

Sure it is.  The thread is about expectations, so your opinions are on topic as far as I'm concerned.  But I submit that everyone is qualified to write and record music. No one is unqualified. It doesn't mean that individuals can't have standards. If someone hits the record button on their iPhone and records their dog wailing and then sends it to an ME, he has every right to refuse the business.  I understand that reputations are at stake. When I talk about the fringes of the industry, I'm talking about anybody who spends or receives money to make music.  As far as I'm concerned, that starts with your first guitar lesson. We all started somewhere, and we're all at different places right now.  There are many teachers who only take students at certain levels, music schools that have auditions, right on up to the major labels that impose the highest of standards.

Aria doesn't care if it's Beyonce or your dog.  Bob O., Jcoutu, or >insert name ME here< on the other hand could very well turn down my business if they don't want their names associated with the end product, or they could specify to me what I need to fix, or even tell me that I should get it mixed by a professional in a "real" recording studio before they are willing to get involved.  They might hate the music, the message, the performance, the choice of microphones and pre-amps - and in every case, it is their right to turn down the business.

I don't think we're necessarily in disagreement about this.  Any M/E, could in all good conscious discourage me by suggesting that I sell my equipment, give up trying to record my music at home, and spend it in a proper recording studio.  If I hold their opinion in high regard, I'd have to consider that as an option, however briefly     I'll bet it happens all the time, and on both sides of the glass.