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Post by channelcat on Feb 17, 2017 14:56:44 GMT -6
Most of the live '70s clips of the Dead I've seen show Jerry, Bobby, and Donna Jean singing into 441s.
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Post by joseph on Feb 17, 2017 15:00:16 GMT -6
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 17, 2017 15:02:19 GMT -6
No, they're not - they're considerably more fragile than 58s and they're both nothing compared to an EV 664. My guess is that it's a matter of sightlines - he wants to subject as many victims as possible to a view of his magnificent orange dyed combover. It also might have something to do with his paranoia about nonworking mics - maybe it was a 58 that "failed" on him that time?
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 17, 2017 15:03:49 GMT -6
Most of the live '70s clips of the Dead I've seen show Jerry, Bobby, and Donna Jean singing into 441s. Funny - I've always seen 421s. In pairs, wired out of phase for feedback cancelling.
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Post by donr on Feb 17, 2017 15:08:23 GMT -6
The vocalist (Jerry Garcia) would sing into one mic. They didn't do it for a long time. It was in the 70's or 80's as I recall.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 15:19:47 GMT -6
Ah, i see. The 441 would be a logical alternative for a 421 in hypercardiodid. Now, i think i remember, that i might have seen 421's taped together for vocals on some occasions in the 70's? (On television, i was a child that time...clearly it was before my time, so i am not sure about this at all. :-) ) I would like to hear more about this - and why the idea did not work out in the long run?
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 17, 2017 15:32:46 GMT -6
The vocalist (Jerry Garcia) would sing into one mic. They didn't do it for a long time. It was in the 70's or 80's as I recall. Ther mics were in pairs, but not taped together, they were separated by several inches. The idea was that the singer would be picked up by only one mic, but feedback and other extraneous noise would be picked up by both mics and be cancelled by the polarity flip. Great idea, too bad it didn't work very well in practice.
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Post by ericn on Feb 17, 2017 16:27:06 GMT -6
The vocalist (Jerry Garcia) would sing into one mic. They didn't do it for a long time. It was in the 70's or 80's as I recall. Ther mics were in pairs, but not taped together, they were separated by several inches. The idea was that the singer would be picked up by only one mic, but feedback and other extraneous noise would be picked up by both mics and be cancelled by the polarity flip. Great idea, too bad it didn't work very well in practice. All it took was the singer to move his head and everything is screwed.
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Post by Guitar on Feb 19, 2017 11:09:36 GMT -6
Too many good sly jokes in this thread.
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Post by stratboy on Feb 19, 2017 11:31:59 GMT -6
Funny thread. I used to have a pair of 57 windscreens. Don't know what happened to them. They probably rotted. That's what happened to mine. Left'em in a box for 20 years and they ended up looking like the skin of a dead shar pei 😀
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Post by donr on Feb 19, 2017 11:36:21 GMT -6
Funny thread. I used to have a pair of 57 windscreens. Don't know what happened to them. They probably rotted. That's what happened to mine. Left'em in a box for 20 years and they ended up looking like the skin of a dead shar pei 😀 Yeah, I remember now. Just the ring left. I used to think foam was forever. Like Ampex 456.
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Post by stratboy on Feb 19, 2017 11:39:26 GMT -6
Didn't the Greatful Dead use two vocal mics with one out of phase for a while to cancel ambient noise from the stage? Here's your answer: A major improvement in the quality of the vocal sound is due to the use of differential microphones. Each singer has a perfectly matched pair of Bruel and Kjaer microphones hooked up out of phase, only one of which he sings into. Any sound which goes equally into both microphones is cancelled out when the two signals are added together. Therefore leakage of instruments and background noise into the vocal channel is minimized. Quoted from: deadsources.blogspot.com/2012/12/1974-wall-of-sound-technical-specs.html?m=1
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Feb 19, 2017 12:21:07 GMT -6
I feel old, we all knew this stuff in the'70s.
The 57s with wind screens are to protect the speaker or singer from electrical shocks.
The differential mikes were part of the wall of sound system where the sound all came from behind the band. The mikes were Sennheiser omni dynamics and there was a foot pedal that unmuted each pair on the floor next to it.
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Post by stratboy on Feb 19, 2017 13:00:04 GMT -6
😳 The last thing I remember, Doc, is a blinding blue spark...
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Post by ericn on Feb 19, 2017 14:29:21 GMT -6
I feel old, we all knew this stuff in the'70s. The 57s with wind screens are to protect the speaker or singer from electrical shocks. The differential mikes were part of the wall of sound system where the sound all came from behind the band. The mikes were Sennheiser omni dynamics and there was a foot pedal that unmuted each pair on the floor next to it. In later years they had a system that used an optical sensor to mute and unmute the vocal mics.
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Post by donr on Feb 19, 2017 14:32:33 GMT -6
😳 The last thing I remember, Doc, is a blinding blue spark... Man, I've gotten some doozies of shocks in the years before going to wireless guitar. It seemed some kind of ground potential between the PA and the amps was the rule rather than the exception. The first thing I'd do going onstage was touch my guitar strings to the mic and see if there were any sparks. Then I'd bridge the string/mic with my hand before I'd touch my lips to the mic. If you had to put up with potential, a wind screen on a 58 would help, but you'd still feel that electricity trying to get to you through the foam.
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Post by wiz on Feb 19, 2017 15:18:49 GMT -6
😳 The last thing I remember, Doc, is a blinding blue spark... Man, I've gotten some doozies of shocks in the years before going to wireless guitar. It seemed some kind of ground potential between the PA and the amps was the rule rather than the exception. The first thing I'd do going onstage was touch my guitar strings to the mic and see if there were any sparks. Then I'd bridge the string/mic with my hand before I'd touch my lips to the mic. If you had to put up with potential, a wind screen on a 58 would help, but you'd still feel that electricity trying to get to you through the foam. Still happens..... I hate it.... cheers Wiz
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Feb 19, 2017 15:23:33 GMT -6
I never saw optical switches or B&K mikes. We had one of their discarded pairs in the'80s at the Quicksilver studio.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 19, 2017 15:39:06 GMT -6
😳 The last thing I remember, Doc, is a blinding blue spark... Man, I've gotten some doozies of shocks in the years before going to wireless guitar. It seemed some kind of ground potential between the PA and the amps was the rule rather than the exception. The first thing I'd do going onstage was touch my guitar strings to the mic and see if there were any sparks. Then I'd bridge the string/mic with my hand before I'd touch my lips to the mic. If you had to put up with potential, a wind screen on a 58 would help, but you'd still feel that electricity trying to get to you through the foam. First gig I ever played, in my high school gym, I stepped up to the mic to sing backup on The Animals' "I'm Cryin'", got a big fat spark right up my front tooth - knocked me for a loop.
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Post by johneppstein on Feb 19, 2017 15:42:43 GMT -6
I never saw optical switches or B&K mikes. We had one of their discarded pairs in the'80s at the Quicksilver studio. Me neither. I suspect somebody's practicing their needlepoint skills... Could be that the idea was proposed, maybe even experimented with in practice, but I never heard of either of those bright ideas making it to the stage.
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Post by gouge on Feb 19, 2017 15:50:00 GMT -6
No, they're not - they're considerably more fragile than 58s and they're both nothing compared to an EV 664. My guess is that it's a matter of sightlines - he wants to subject as many victims as possible to a view of his magnificent orange dyed combover. It also might have something to do with his paranoia about nonworking mics - maybe it was a 58 that "failed" on him that time? In australia we call it comedy. Now get off my lawn.
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Post by ericn on Feb 19, 2017 15:55:23 GMT -6
I never saw optical switches or B&K mikes. We had one of their discarded pairs in the'80s at the Quicksilver studio. The guys from Ultra Sound talked about them, they were on the last couple of tours before Jerry died. In fact there was a write up in Mix and the guy who made the things always had an ad in the back of Mix. I had a demo for a bit, I couldn't stand it, always heard the gate opening and closing and you had to reteach the singer how to use it. I don't remember anybody else of note using it and then with everybody going digital I'm sure it went the way of the do do bird.
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Post by ericn on Feb 19, 2017 16:15:02 GMT -6
I never saw optical switches or B&K mikes. We had one of their discarded pairs in the'80s at the Quicksilver studio. Me neither. I suspect somebody's practicing their needlepoint skills... Could be that the idea was proposed, maybe even experimented with in practice, but I never heard of either of those bright ideas making it to the stage. Here is a modern version. www.optogate.com/index_opto_uk.html
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Post by wiz on Feb 19, 2017 16:16:59 GMT -6
I never saw optical switches or B&K mikes. We had one of their discarded pairs in the'80s at the Quicksilver studio. Me neither. I suspect somebody's practicing their needlepoint skills... Could be that the idea was proposed, maybe even experimented with in practice, but I never heard of either of those bright ideas making it to the stage. I think I saw something like this a couple of years back...it was a black box, attached to the mic... that had a LED and and Photo receptor of some sort, that picked up when the singer was near the mic, and opened the gate... or did I dream it? cheers Wiz
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Post by jazznoise on Feb 19, 2017 17:28:24 GMT -6
This is why I prefer to use a 57 for a vocal mic. Always used to happen when I played a Strat.
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