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Post by matt on Jan 30, 2017 14:01:40 GMT -6
I am a fan of big bottom, as well. And smooth.
Seriously though, I love my MK1, set up for 8 in x 24 out. Plus I get more outs from a DA16x, until I hit the 32 i/o limit in PT. I have no desire to upgrade, and am quite sure that my deficiencies as an engineer far outweigh any differences in conversion quality. In fact, I'd probably be happy with AD/DA16x all around.
I set mine up with an empty space above it and have had no heat issues. I can't even hear the fan, ever. On the other hand my Mac Mini runs hot a lot, and the fan gets loud, relatively speaking.
EDIT: well heck, the quote didn't work. Funny. Anyway JK said: . . .is that it was more big bottomed, smooth . . .
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Post by BenjaminAshlin on Jan 30, 2017 14:10:17 GMT -6
Well I bought everything used for about 50-70% off retail so it's not that bad. The used MK1 Symphonies are the best value in pro audio right now. Some people prefer their sound to the MK2's even. If UAD released a professional grade Apollo I could just buy one and save a ton of money on cables and such. I just got tired of waiting/hoping for that to happen. Which Apollo do you have?
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Post by veggieryan on Jan 30, 2017 14:25:09 GMT -6
UAD can put whatever chips they want in their Apollos but until they chose to design a quality analog section and use a quality clock it will continue to sound like a toy... They use the exact same chip Apogee used for the Symphony MK1 DAC years ago and still managed to make it sound like a toy... the chip is only one part of a good converter design. I can only hope UAD offers an all digital Apollo with a professional digital protocol like AES in their next generation.... If they designed an Apollo with Symphony grade sonics it would be priced so high we would never hear the end of people complaining about it. Well, it's not just the chip. Yeah, they both use the same AKM chip, but Apogee is now also doing the parallel conversion and using the same family of National Semiconductor op amps (the UA being slightly higher spec) downstream. Obviously, yeah, layout, clock, there are plenty of reasons they don't necessarily sound the same. But there are striking similarities in the overall design. I haven't put them side by side so I can't claim to know exactly how they compare, but I think it's ridiculous to try and claim the Apollo sounds like a toy. Obviously it's totally subjective, so I, totally subjectively, think your claim is ridiculous BUT, I'd love to hear this enormous difference between Pro and Toy that you're experiencing. You've got all those units there, how about you run some comparisons and post them, unlabeled, so we can hear what you're hearing? Yes, but then people would be listening to those clips on whatever system they have and what would we really be arguing about then? I can only offer my subjective opinion of course. I said the BF Apollo sounds like a toy compared to the Symphony MK1. I don't think you could really ever get an idea of how they really compare unless you were sitting in the room switching back and forth between the 2 units for a few days. I bet if you did that you would come to a similar conclusion but I can only guess. It was not even close to my ears.... many threads on many forums come to the same conclusion. It's pretty simple, in this case the extra cost goes into better analog components and clocking which results in better sound. You don't get 4 sharcs added in for "free" unfortunately. Believe me when I say I wish this were not the case.
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Post by ragan on Jan 30, 2017 14:47:19 GMT -6
Well, it's not just the chip. Yeah, they both use the same AKM chip, but Apogee is now also doing the parallel conversion and using the same family of National Semiconductor op amps (the UA being slightly higher spec) downstream. Obviously, yeah, layout, clock, there are plenty of reasons they don't necessarily sound the same. But there are striking similarities in the overall design. I haven't put them side by side so I can't claim to know exactly how they compare, but I think it's ridiculous to try and claim the Apollo sounds like a toy. Obviously it's totally subjective, so I, totally subjectively, think your claim is ridiculous BUT, I'd love to hear this enormous difference between Pro and Toy that you're experiencing. You've got all those units there, how about you run some comparisons and post them, unlabeled, so we can hear what you're hearing? Yes, but then people would be listening to those clips on whatever system they have and what would we really be arguing about then? I can only offer my subjective opinion of course. I said the BF Apollo sounds like a toy compared to the Symphony MK1. I don't think you could really ever get an idea of how they really compare unless you were sitting in the room switching back and forth between the 2 units for a few days. I bet if you did that you would come to a similar conclusion but I can only guess. It was not even close to my ears.... many threads on many forums come to the same conclusion. It's pretty simple, in this case the extra cost goes into better analog components and clocking which results in better sound. You don't get 4 sharcs added in for "free" unfortunately. Believe me when I say I wish this were not the case. Sure. Fair enough. I'm always just trying to eliminate the black hole of internet speculation as much as possible and properly done comparison clips go a long way toward that goal. But, yes, it's all very subjective. As a friend pointed out recently, UA made a big splash with the Apollo series and have become The Company To Hate a la Apple. I'm not talking about your expressed opinions with that, just pointing out the general climate online. Up to each of us to triangulate from all the conflicting stuff we read, blatant hyperbole included, and make our gear decisions.
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Post by veggieryan on Jan 30, 2017 15:08:00 GMT -6
Another way to think of it.... There are many Apollo owners out there who will probably spend around 1,000 on plugins this year chasing a "better" sound. Used Symphony MK1 8x8's are getting around the $200 per channel of AD/DA mark... (crazy cheap IMHO) You can run it in standalone mode as the AD/DA converter for the Apollo via ADAT and it will get you sound QUALITY that no plugin can give you. Once you have that sound quality baked into your recordings the plugins you already have become more useful and the end result is that much better. I think that is a good gear decision... at least it was for me. PS: there are now cheap glass fiber ADAT cables available, and yes they do sound better than the plastic ones www.ebay.com/itm/3-3-ft-GLASS-TOSLINK-DIGITAL-OPTICAL-CABLE-Premium-/381693168365?hash=item58deaf8aed:m:muspxd7BbedOzN7_vrNs5YA
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Post by wiz on Jan 30, 2017 15:12:40 GMT -6
Another way to think of it.... There are many Apollo owners out there who will probably spend around 1,000 on plugins this year chasing a "better" sound. Used Symphony MK1 8x8's are getting around the $200 per channel of AD/DA mark... (crazy cheap IMHO) You can run it in standalone mode as the AD/DA converter for the Apollo via ADAT and it will get you sound QUALITY that no plugin can give you. Once you have that sound quality baked into your recordings the plugins you already have become more useful and the end result is that much better. I think that is a good gear decision... at least it was for me. PS: there are now cheap glass fiber ADAT cables available, and yes they do sound better than the plastic ones www.ebay.com/itm/3-3-ft-GLASS-TOSLINK-DIGITAL-OPTICAL-CABLE-Premium-/381693168365?hash=item58deaf8aed:m:muspxd7BbedOzN7_vrNs5YAcould you run off a sonic example of the glass fibre vs plastic please? cheers Wiz
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 16:02:22 GMT -6
Another way to think of it.... There are many Apollo owners out there who will probably spend around 1,000 on plugins this year chasing a "better" sound. Used Symphony MK1 8x8's are getting around the $200 per channel of AD/DA mark... (crazy cheap IMHO) You can run it in standalone mode as the AD/DA converter for the Apollo via ADAT and it will get you sound QUALITY that no plugin can give you. Once you have that sound quality baked into your recordings the plugins you already have become more useful and the end result is that much better. I think that is a good gear decision... at least it was for me. PS: there are now cheap glass fiber ADAT cables available, and yes they do sound better than the plastic ones www.ebay.com/itm/3-3-ft-GLASS-TOSLINK-DIGITAL-OPTICAL-CABLE-Premium-/381693168365?hash=item58deaf8aed:m:muspxd7BbedOzN7_vrNs5YAWell let's not let opinion get in the way of facts shall we? So your one's and zero's sound better through glass do they? From other's diffmaker results, I can understand the Apollo to an extent (even though I'd have to test it myself for accurate results). It didn't even test out as well as an Echo Audiofire, so yeah I get it (maybe).. But seriously! Some of the sheer inane BS I see come out of newbie's to audio engineers alike is absolutley mind blowing.. Thank goodness for people like Paul Frindle setting the record straight. Just to note, it doesn't bother me in the slightest I find this sort of stuff hilarious but I usually smile and move on. I swear down many do it just for a laugh, it keeps gear boards chatting away.. If everyone realised a lot of this ain't magic, there wouldn't be much to talk about ..!
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Post by rowmat on Jan 30, 2017 16:20:29 GMT -6
Don't you know some optical cables pass 'zeros' that are more rounded and fulsome and 'ones' that are more steadfast and upright than lesser quality optical cables. I thought that was common knowledge?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 16:24:15 GMT -6
Don't you know some optical cables pass 'zeros' that are more rounded and fulsome and 'ones' that are more steadfast and upright than lesser quality optical cables. I thought that was common knowledge? I must of missed the memo, but I've heard positive reinforcement and smiling at your digital cables makes than perform better than your under appreciated digital cables.
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Post by veggieryan on Jan 30, 2017 18:10:24 GMT -6
You guys are fun!
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