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Post by rowmat on Jan 28, 2017 22:03:07 GMT -6
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 28, 2017 22:42:00 GMT -6
Oh wow. Much cheaper than I thought. (Although that's $2400 at VK ) I guess there were a lot of them made. VK aren't displaying prices and I'm going on the average eBay pricing I've seen which are for unserviced modules. By the time it's been recapped, serviced and racked I'm guessing $2.5 to $3k. You can pretty much double that for a V76. And if we're talking about 2-channels then you can double all that again! I'd honestly take a V72 over a V76 any day. We have 4 V76 modules at the studio, and I stay away from them these days because they are such a pain in the ass for maintenance. If you are halfway through THE vocal take and that thing starts making noise for no damn reason, its pretty frustrating. The amount of insanely fabricated parts inside of them is mind boggling. The input gain switch was a mechanic feat of engineering when they came up with it, but 60 some odd years later it just doesn't stand up anymore. I'm working with our tech to figure out a way to bypass it completely and mock up a new variable switch. Not worth the money IMO if you have to constantly worry about them going down. We've got 2 V72's and 2 V72a's that are rock solid and never have any problems. Last week I used a Coles 4038 into the V72, and then into a Pye compressor and it was one of the best Sax sounds I've ever gotten.
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Post by rowmat on Jan 29, 2017 1:54:45 GMT -6
VK aren't displaying prices and I'm going on the average eBay pricing I've seen which are for unserviced modules. By the time it's been recapped, serviced and racked I'm guessing $2.5 to $3k. You can pretty much double that for a V76. And if we're talking about 2-channels then you can double all that again! I'd honestly take a V72 over a V76 any day. We have 4 V76 modules at the studio, and I stay away from them these days because they are such a pain in the ass for maintenance. If you are halfway through THE vocal take and that thing starts making noise for no damn reason, its pretty frustrating. The amount of insanely fabricated parts inside of them is mind boggling. The input gain switch was a mechanic feat of engineering when they came up with it, but 60 some odd years later it just doesn't stand up anymore. I'm working with our tech to figure out a way to bypass it completely and mock up a new variable switch. Not worth the money IMO if you have to constantly worry about them going down. We've got 2 V72's and 2 V72a's that are rock solid and never have any problems. Last week I used a Coles 4038 into the V72, and then into a Pye compressor and it was one of the best Sax sounds I've ever gotten. We have a two channel Mercury Audio Bruder which is their take on the V72 and V76 in one unit. I can't say exactly how close they are to the genuine article but the V72 is thicker than the V76 which is a bit more open and hi-fi. Our Flea 47 is awesome through the V72 for fellas (sounds like 1955-1965) and although a 47 is not always the first pick for females it sounds fantastic through the V76 on the girls. Being only two years old and built like a tank the Mercury doesn't cause me grief wondering whether it will suddenly expire the next time I switch it on. Also the V72 compresses the dynamics way more than any other pre we have when pushed.
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 29, 2017 2:16:58 GMT -6
Depending on what is going to be played, that's pretty critical when it comes to acoustic and preamps IMO.
If it's a smooth, strummed and big bottomed I like the RTZ's or a Neve type so it'll tighten the bottom and sort of nick off the spiky transient from the pick.
If it's articulate and bassy I really like the Forsell stuff.
If we're talking about just listening to an acoustic being beautifully played then V72's/V76's are just hard to beat. Pair the V72's with like a C28a or KM54 type and they just goes together perfectly.
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Post by rowmat on Jan 29, 2017 2:40:59 GMT -6
Depending on what is going to be played, that's pretty critical when it comes to acoustic and preamps IMO. If it's a smooth, strummed and big bottomed I like the RTZ's or a Neve type so it'll tighten the bottom and sort of nick off the spiky transient from the pick. If it's articulate and bassy I really like the Forsell stuff. If we're talking about just listening to an acoustic being beautifully played then V72's/V76's are just hard to beat. Pair the V72's with like a C28a or KM54 type and they just goes together perfectly. That's what I keep reiterating when discussing mic and pres. It's one thing to use a modern mic with a vintage pre or vice versa but using both the mics and pre's of 'their era' is something else. A fast nickel capsule with a smooth tube pre was a particular pairing. Add to that an all analog signal path and vinyl playback... Yada, yada. A nickel capsuled mic into a modern transformerless micpre/interface streamed on Spotify?... YMMV.
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Post by swurveman on Jan 29, 2017 10:17:01 GMT -6
Depending on what is going to be played, that's pretty critical when it comes to acoustic and preamps IMO. If it's a smooth, strummed and big bottomed I like the RTZ's or a Neve type so it'll tighten the bottom and sort of nick off the spiky transient from the pick. If it's articulate and bassy I really like the Forsell stuff. If we're talking about just listening to an acoustic being beautifully played then V72's/V76's are just hard to beat. Pair the V72's with like a C28a or KM54 type and they just goes together perfectly. That's what I keep reiterating when discussing mic and pres. It's one thing to use a modern mic with a vintage pre or vice versa but using both the mics and pre's of 'their era' is something else. A fast nickel capsule with a smooth tube pre was a particular pairing. Add to that an all analog signal path and vinyl playback... Yada, yada. A nickel capsuled mic into a modern transformerless micpre/interface streamed on Spotify?... YMMV. I would add the room and the converters in the equation. I have a pretty neutral room-some ambience- but the combination of an acoustic guitar through my schoeps cmc64->API 3124 or Vintech x73i->Aurora 16 chain has always been too bright for my tastes. I have always loved the acoustic guitar sound below, which I believe was recorded on a Quad 8 console. Thus, my interest in the Pacifica. The other concern is tape's role.....
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Post by Randge on Jan 29, 2017 19:15:02 GMT -6
Notice how even that the player is playing, the quality of their instrument and the absence of any compression or eq artifacts. I look forward to when these recording techniques come back envogue a whole lot.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jan 29, 2017 19:28:08 GMT -6
Notice how even that the player is playing, the quality of their instrument and the absence of any compression or eq artifacts. I look forward to when these recording techniques come back envogue a whole lot. We can only hope!
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Post by mdmitch2 on Jan 29, 2017 20:14:34 GMT -6
Anyone compared the hairball Lola and gold preamps for acoustic? I had Lola's but I sold them for some dumb reason.
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Post by hadaja on Jan 30, 2017 0:32:15 GMT -6
Grace M201 niceness in every way!
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Post by Ward on Jan 30, 2017 2:23:34 GMT -6
Notice how even that the player is playing, the quality of their instrument and the absence of any compression or eq artifacts. I look forward to when these recording techniques come back envogue a whole lot. Do you realize how much work that is? Kids these days don't have time for that kind of work. You're stuck with us old fogies trying to keep our chops up.
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Post by Randge on Jan 30, 2017 11:22:15 GMT -6
Notice how even that the player is playing, the quality of their instrument and the absence of any compression or eq artifacts. I look forward to when these recording techniques come back envogue a whole lot. Do you realize how much work that is? Kids these days don't have time for that kind of work. You're stuck with us old fogies trying to keep our chops up. Oh, believe me, I teach and preach...
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Post by mdmitch2 on Jan 31, 2017 8:23:47 GMT -6
Anyone compared the hairball Lola and gold preamps for acoustic? I had Lola's but I sold them for some dumb reason. I think I answered my own question on this ... hairball has acoustic guitar samples on their site. I much prefer the Lola's over the gold, which seem a lot boring in comparison. library.hairballaudio.com/sound/
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Post by bowie on Jan 31, 2017 14:28:25 GMT -6
I love good preamps but I feel that preamp selection is almost minutia in comparison to how critical mic selection and placement are on an acoustic. More so than most other sources, IMO, because of the way the instrument projects, creating a variety of tones from different parts of the instrument. That said, V72s are lovely on acoustics (so long as it's not too lightly played). If there's magic coming out of the instrument, the V72 will capture it. Millennia M2a/b is another other fave. The highs are incredibly airy and the mids are lean, making them feel almost pre-EQ'd for acoustic. I was impressed by Shadow Hills as well. Very focused mids that can give larger instruments clarity without robbing them of their power.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Jan 31, 2017 17:05:41 GMT -6
I love good preamps but I feel that preamp selection is almost minutia in comparison to how critical mic selection and placement are on an acoustic. More so than most other sources, IMO, because of the way the instrument projects, creating a variety of tones from different parts of the instrument. That said, V72s are lovely on acoustics (so long as it's not too lightly played). If there's magic coming out of the instrument, the V72 will capture it. Millennia M2a/b is another other fave. The highs are incredibly airy and the mids are lean, making them feel almost pre-EQ'd for acoustic. I was impressed by Shadow Hills as well. Very focused mids that can give larger instruments clarity without robbing them of their power. After years of live work I have found I can pretty much make any pre work on acustic, but the mic selection is critical.
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Post by swurveman on Feb 1, 2017 8:51:22 GMT -6
I love good preamps but I feel that preamp selection is almost minutia in comparison to how critical mic selection and placement are on an acoustic. More so than most other sources, IMO, because of the way the instrument projects, creating a variety of tones from different parts of the instrument. That said, V72s are lovely on acoustics (so long as it's not too lightly played). If there's magic coming out of the instrument, the V72 will capture it. Millennia M2a/b is another other fave. The highs are incredibly airy and the mids are lean, making them feel almost pre-EQ'd for acoustic. I was impressed by Shadow Hills as well. Very focused mids that can give larger instruments clarity without robbing them of their power. After years of live work I have found I can pretty much make any pre work on acustic, but the mic selection is critical. Since my experience recording acoustics in my room has been way too bright recordings- in a live room that I paid a respected AE to set up- I decided to go with two Lauden Atlantis mics in mid/side with a 2-610 UA stereo preamp. I know there are better tube preamps, but I couldn't afford them and I wanted a stereo preamp. The more I do this the more I think it is what works for you. I know what the acoustic guitar sound I want sounds like in acoustic/vocal songs So, we'll see.... If i don't get what I want, I'll keep searching.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Feb 1, 2017 9:50:27 GMT -6
After years of live work I have found I can pretty much make any pre work on acustic, but the mic selection is critical. Since my experience recording acoustics in my room has been way too bright recordings- in a live room that I paid a respected AE to set up- I decided to go with two Lauden Atlantis mics in mid/side with a 2-610 UA stereo preamp. I know there are better tube preamps, but I couldn't afford them and I wanted a stereo preamp. The more I do this the more I think it is what works for you. I know what the acoustic guitar sound I want sounds like in acoustic/vocal songs So, we'll see.... If i don't get what I want, I'll keep searching. Eric's first rule of Audio; Never knock what works !
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Post by ChaseUTB on Feb 2, 2017 13:19:33 GMT -6
Chase #1 rule if it sounds good it is good
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Post by Guitar on Feb 2, 2017 18:13:40 GMT -6
+1 bowie
mic placement on acoustic guitar is painfully hit and miss.
but my standard is the API/CAPI VP312 for acoustic. I just love that sound.
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Post by gouge on Feb 2, 2017 19:01:42 GMT -6
Now that all the expensive stuff is listed.......
Sytek.
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