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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 12:21:03 GMT -6
I don't believe these get enough love, I can't say I've owned any really expensive mic's (over 3K (that's GBP, so at the moment that's 3.7K USD)) neither would I. Over the years I've had two relatively expensive LDC's broken by musicians (I've even broken one when I knocked a stand over by accident.. Oops). I've tracked at a studio a long time ago that had a U47 they recommended I use which was a very nice mic, but again never owned one.
Some of the Mojave range in terms of price isn't much higher than entry level mic's, the 201-FET costs $700.00 around here. On it's own it doesn't sound like the most impressive mic I've ever heard, but we all know (or should) that without the context of a mix, something sounding like rolling thunder by itself may be more problematic than it's worth. That's what I find most impressive about the 201, it fits in a mix with little to no EQ. It's clear as day, nicely forward and has a bit of character.. There's no brittle top end, nothing that stands out like a saw thumb and it reacts really well to compression and FX.. It's just a great sounding mic very easy to get along with.
I read a review that said the 201 has a lot of sibilance issues, either he / she was making out with it or they never owned one. I've owned enough LDC's to know a sibilant mic, in the sub 3K mark I've gone through nearly every one of them at some point. Not saying lot's of them aren't great mic's, because they are.. Just saying I believe Mojave deserves a mention.
I would love to see how the little Mojave 201 stacks up against the Neumann U47 FET. If anyone with a U47 decides to buy one on a whim, or already has one that'd be sweet, or if someone lives relatively local to me I wouldn't mind doing a head to head especially as my voice is suited to FET's.
Also to note their customer service is second to none.
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Post by popmann on Dec 31, 2016 12:59:23 GMT -6
I couldn't send the MA200 back fast enough. I've had $300 Chinese LDCs that wasted it. Which, in turn, are all wasted by good dynamics and SDCs in most any scenario not requiring Fig8.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 31, 2016 13:13:45 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 14:25:25 GMT -6
I couldn't send the MA200 back fast enough. I've had $300 Chinese LDCs that wasted it. Which, in turn, are all wasted by good dynamics and SDCs in most any scenario not requiring Fig8. Well I'm always up for suggestions around that price range for vox (or more maybe?), I noted the MA200 was a bit toppy so I skipped it. |
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Post by popmann on Dec 31, 2016 14:39:44 GMT -6
Sm7.
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Post by Randge on Dec 31, 2016 16:14:44 GMT -6
I have zero problems recording vocals with an MA-200 or MA-300. An SM-7, I can't get it to sound good to save my life.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 16:18:26 GMT -6
Already have two, here's the mic's I have.. Mojave Fet 201, SM58's, SM7B's, SM57, Neumann TLM 49, MD421, EV RE-20.. I need to drag them all out and test them one by one me thinks. I don't have many, but enough for now. Randge One of those mic's you have to throw a lot of gain at for it to sound right. They are handy because they can take a good beating, also they work well with shouty singers. They're not the best mic's I've ever heard, far from.. But they definatley do the job, they don't really work with my vox too well.. Also great off axis rejection, I'll try it out again FWIW. I'll post some clips of the Mojave vs. the SM7B after the new year.. BTW, happy new year all.. |
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Post by Randge on Dec 31, 2016 16:45:20 GMT -6
I don't like them on guitar cabs, snare, vocals or really anything people tend to use them for. I have tried and tried with preamp after preamp. They just don't sound clear and wide to me no matter what I do. If you HPF them to where the congestion goes away, then they have no balls. I'm just not a fan.
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Post by rocinante on Dec 31, 2016 18:27:32 GMT -6
They are a metal mic.
You scream 'metal!!!!' into them.
At The Gates, Cannibal Corpse, Between the Buried and Me, Cradle, all have used the sm7.
The sm7 is great for adding guitar cabs with other guitar cabs.
Mid swoop wall of sound.
Speaking of metal; apparently all of Michael Jackson's vocals on Thriller used the sm7 for vocals.
That said they are extremely particular and not any sort of all around mic.
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Post by popmann on Dec 31, 2016 19:03:35 GMT -6
No--I specifically use them for writing demos BECAUSE unlike modern cheap LDCs, they can be pointed at anything--from acoustic guitar to voice to Leslie to guitar amp to bass amp....and come out with a solidly useable track. It follows the idea to whatever instrument. Quick level check at the preamp and red light goes on....you can do that with a U87i, too. A 269 can do that sublimely. Professional LDCs can do this and do it better being able to quickly adapt pickup pattern and their ability to mic from a distance and catch more room.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 20:30:12 GMT -6
I don't like them on guitar cabs, snare, vocals or really anything people tend to use them for. I have tried and tried with preamp after preamp. They just don't sound clear and wide to me no matter what I do. If you HPF them to where the congestion goes away, then they have no balls. I'm just not a fan. I think they sound clear enough, but I agree they are not very wide sounding mic's.. I've been doing rock / metal for 15 years+, if nothing else I've got intimate understanding of the SM7B. Sound pretty good on kick, not half bad on guitar cabs.. For Vox they can be hit or miss, plus when I say you need a decent pre-amp with plenty of gain, I'm not talking just any pre-amp I bought Daking's specifically for the SM7B because it has 70dB of clear gain. My favourite singer of all time uses one on all his albums, but personally I can't get along with them for vox and I'm far from the first. popmann What exactly are you classing as cheap? My cheap and your cheap are probably two different things, are you saying any LDC under 2K isn't worth the time of day? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 21:41:44 GMT -6
Well I listened to over 100 clips, shootout's / mic comparisons / blind tests.. One actually included the Mojave 200, in the blind test I have to actually admit it came last. I asked my partner tonight if I sound nasally, she said no.. Listen to the clip below (vid 1), this singer on the MA200 isn't a nasally singer but kinda sounds it with this mic.. Even with the 201 it's kinda similar.
Check it out for yourself.! Preferred the MD421 over the 7B personally? They don't sound too different though.
In the second vid, out of the lot of them the Audio Techica 4050 swung it for me. Never used one, never even heard one before but sounds awesome.. In second place is the Neumann U89, can't deny it did really like that mic.
P.S yes I know youtube vid's aren't exactly quality testbenching material, but I did listen to a lot of lossy clips too and it was more of the same.
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Post by ericn on Dec 31, 2016 22:01:22 GMT -6
The Mojave's are proof that with some basic tweaks the Generic made in China Condensers are very useable mics. Having a highly respected mic guy like Dave Royer behind them helps, & getting them in the hands of pros who agree they are quite useable is a bonus.
If you can't get a respectable sound out of a Mohave, it's not the mic.
Can you find better? In many cases yes, in some no, but that goes for a C12, U47, M49 or Elam251.
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Post by popmann on Dec 31, 2016 22:33:36 GMT -6
In modern manufacture, more like 4k.
It's about relative price of the type of mic. A $350 dynamic IS a $4k LDC....in the ranges of the types of mics and what it takes to manufacture them. a $1500 LDC is "cheaper" than a $350 dynamic, because it IS ralative to what it costs to make the best ones. where it falls in that range. It's like someone arguing that a $100k house is much "nicer" than a $70k car because of absolute dollars paid....like the market price ranges of cars and houses are the same.
the worst price point is the $1k-2k....because simply exist to take home studios' money. I get that it makes logical sense if you don't understand how much various mics cost to make and what they bring to the table. Doesn't make it true. Why do you think inexpensive LDCs came in two waves? One in the 90s with the first home studios (AT and ROde)....and then around 2000 with the ChinaCap imports? Because before then there was no market for compromised sounding mics. There WAS a market for dynamics and SDCs and ribbons that happened to cost less money to make well.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2016 23:06:35 GMT -6
In modern manufacture, more like 4k. It's about relative price of the type of mic. A $350 dynamic IS a $4k LDC....in the ranges of the types of mics and what it takes to manufacture them. a $1500 LDC is "cheaper" than a $350 dynamic, because it IS ralative to what it costs to make the best ones. where it falls in that range. It's like someone arguing that a $100k house is much "nicer" than a $70k car because of absolute dollars paid....like the market price ranges of cars and houses are the same. the worst price point is the $1k-2k....because simply exist to take home studios' money. I get that it makes logical sense if you don't understand how much various mics cost to make and what they bring to the table. Doesn't make it true. Why do you think inexpensive LDCs came in two waves? One in the 90s with the first home studios (AT and ROde)....and then around 2000 with the ChinaCap imports? Because before then there was no market for compromised sounding mics. There WAS a market for dynamics and SDCs and ribbons that happened to cost less money to make well. Thanks for the info, but I gotta admit I've been listening to quite a few of the audio technica clips (especially the 4047) and in a well done mix they sound beautiful. I get that price / performance ratio is heavily in favour of a dynamic mic, but generally the issue I've found with lower end LDC's (not really cheap shitty sounding ones) is shrill top ends or QA issues. I might of never used an AT mic, but I know the likes of AT 4060's and AT 4047's have been used by some of the largest sound engineers out there. Are they just daft? What about the Gefell M930 that all these pro audio guru's swoon over? They are only $1200.00, they must be crap right? |
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Post by popmann on Jan 1, 2017 0:25:57 GMT -6
Look, there's 100k mic models on the market. I've never used a M930. You can't buy a 4060 (which I once owned). It was the gem of that line....and they discontinued it. I use an old UM70s all the time that's lovely. The new ones? Not so much.
You're coming at this the way they want you to--there HAS to be an exception....and IME, there ARE....and it's a moving target. I've been sent mics for review that I wasn't allowed to BUY....because they just wanted to drum up the internet word of mouth with a particularly GOOD sounding unit or 10....sell the other 50k shitty sounding ones of the same model they have in a warehouse. So, the thing is--if someone says they have an amazing Maudio Sputnik (also no longer available) or a Soundelux U95 (the original C12'y china cap ones that haven't been for sale for 10 years+)....I don't doubt it--because I've used some of those. The nature of LDCs is that each one sounds different from another. The reason old Neumanns are what they are is because of the consistency.
That IS the feat in the production of LDCs. everything else can be inexpensively made consistent.
Audiotechnica makes the best....because they're consistent. None of them, save the 4060, sound particularly awesome....but, they're consistent. They've gotten THAT....and should be commended for it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 1:40:02 GMT -6
Look, there's 100k mic models on the market. I've never used a M930. You can't buy a 4060 (which I once owned). It was the gem of that line....and they discontinued it. I use an old UM70s all the time that's lovely. The new ones? Not so much. You're coming at this the way they want you to--there HAS to be an exception....and IME, there ARE....and it's a moving target. I've been sent mics for review that I wasn't allowed to BUY....because they just wanted to drum up the internet word of mouth with a particularly GOOD sounding unit or 10....sell the other 50k shitty sounding ones of the same model they have in a warehouse. So, the thing is--if someone says they have an amazing Maudio Sputnik (also no longer available) or a Soundelux U95 (the original C12'y china cap ones that haven't been for sale for 10 years+)....I don't doubt it--because I've used some of those. The nature of LDCs is that each one sounds different from another. The reason old Neumanns are what they are is because of the consistency. That IS the feat in the production of LDCs. everything else can be inexpensively made consistent. Audiotechnica makes the best....because they're consistent. None of them, save the 4060, sound particularly awesome....but, they're consistent. They've gotten THAT....and should be commended for it. I'm not arguing, I'm trying to not repeat mistakes. I don't know what happened when I bought my last set of gear, but I seem to have made mistake after mistake.. I've just never been a fan of the SM7B for me. I've been comparing all sorts of mic's to the U87AI, there were tons of "pitchy" overly hyped ear clenching mic's. Still trying to find "the one".. I can hear exactly why the U87 is what it is and why it's been so popular with pro's over many years. It's not by itself the best sounding mic, but it sounds good on everything and I can tell it would take well to post processing. It seems stable, there's no pitchy high end, no overly tubby bottom, no artificial "Hi-Fi".. It's just a spectacular mic (an expensive one at that). Back on the SM7b, like I believe the vid below shows a good recording of a 7b, most vocals I've heard / recorded sound like this.. It's too thin for my likings whilst still retaining an upper frequency pitchyness that makes me want to poke my ear drums out. |
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Post by reddirt on Jan 1, 2017 6:29:43 GMT -6
I have an SM7B, is it the best mic you can buy? - no. it's a great utility mic which can take a day to day studio battering and sound very good in some instances and will generally work OK in most .
If you are set on a dynamic the Senny MD 441 is an altogether better but substantially dearer proposition which works on everything from Kik to H-H to vocals etc, etc, etc.
If you are set on a cheaper condensor then I reckon the new Stam 87 copy might be worth a look .
Just another $.02 worth.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by Ward on Jan 1, 2017 7:56:04 GMT -6
OMG... how did another thread devolve into a discussion about the Lumbersexual Hipster of the microphone world? I'm with Randge |
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Post by stratboy on Jan 1, 2017 9:44:12 GMT -6
OMG... how did another thread devolve into a discussion about the Lumbersexual Hipster of the microphone world? I'm with Randge I have an SM7B with a flannel windscreen. I got it in Portland. Happy New Year!! |
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Post by rocinante on Jan 1, 2017 10:28:51 GMT -6
OMG... how did another thread devolve into a discussion about the Lumbersexual Hipster of the microphone world? I'm with Randge I have an SM7B with a flannel windscreen. I got it in Portland. Happy New Year!! I'm sure whoever sold it to you had PBR foam in his beard. |
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 1, 2017 11:33:59 GMT -6
I have zero problems recording vocals with an MA-200 or MA-300. An SM-7, I can't get it to sound good to save my life. Agree here. I used Randge's MA-300 on a high dollar project I produced and it was amazing. Smooth as silk and really detailed. John Jennings has some special things going on over there at Mojave and they do an outstanding job. I really like the MA-100's as well, SDC tube mic for that price and quality is hard to beat. I'm proud to wear my Mojave hat 8) |
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Post by popmann on Jan 1, 2017 11:36:58 GMT -6
Ha ha.
#GroundhogDay
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2017 23:42:08 GMT -6
OMG... how did another thread devolve into a discussion about the Lumbersexual Hipster of the microphone world? I'm with Randge Isn't that just the golden standard for mic threads now? Until somebody becomes super famous comes along using an AKG perception on their first demo, which then forces engineers to use it because singers all of a sudden want to use it. Ten years later the AKG has become the new hipster recommended for every application from bass drums to recording chickens clucking. "I'm looking for a new mic under $500.00" Izmuzic42 "I've had vintage Neumann's, the AKG Perception blows it out the water". Clucker5 "You'z cant beatz an AKG Perc, even soundz epic on chickenz.!!" Joking aside, it is a good entry level mic.. So if AKG reads this, it was just the first mic that came to mind..  |
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Post by gouge on Jan 2, 2017 0:00:37 GMT -6
OMG... how did another thread devolve into a discussion about the Lumbersexual Hipster of the microphone world? I'm with Randge how do you drown a hipster...... you throw him in the main stream. |
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