|
|
Post by popmann on Dec 6, 2013 21:51:21 GMT -6
So, I pulled down the files Wreck posted here...since I'm demoing an EQ...and since I have a bad fader on one of my Mackie units (that I just have to replace with a spare I have but haven't done)....I thought, "let me try mixing without it" since it's a shits and giggles thing anyway...
Holy crap. I'm lost. You don't realize HOW MUCH you use something until it's not there. My ability to go directly to templated banks (drums, band, FX, etc)...simply the ability to touch a fader and hit edit bringing up it's window...devastating to productivity.
I just wanted to chime in since I'd recently rec'd wreck not bother with a C24 he won't be able to use for long due to Avid's silly business practices...not because there's anything wrong with it--probably a pretty cool unit...but, if he did "connect" with it the way I have with the MCU+Cubase (literally the only app I find the MCU useful with)--he'd be "out" as soon as he wanted PT11.
I'm sure I would get used to it--technically to a 1 fader channel unit like the CC121...define some more custom key commands and such...but, wow...just turning them off? Yikes, I felt like everything took three times as long.
So, if your bag is mixing with a mouse....keep it up. I literally decided on Cubase DUE to the MCU implementation. Well, not JUST that...but, it was a major factor...ProTools--might as well use a mouse...same with (modern) Logic. If anything, I DO know that for me there's a huge tangible difference given a 100mm fader to ride--but, not much more given the 16 I have. Funny how quickly workflows get learned by that unconscious part of the brain--flying around on the MCU (plus key/mouse/VST3 knob)...look like a fool if you could watch me with a mouse.
|
|
|
|
Post by sozocaps on Dec 7, 2013 14:42:25 GMT -6
I am sick of the mouse! Hate it, so I am looking at the Mackie and Avid controllers but they are very expensive mice and I just cant seem to choose which one if any....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2013 18:49:41 GMT -6
Hahaha,
yes, i have a really hard time mixing with the mouse, too. Normally i use US-2400 and an extra BCF2000/BCR2000 combo, that gave me convenient 25 motorfaders plus channelstrip functionality and generally alot of control of all functions i needed, plus plugin handling, and familiar hands-on feeling.
Coming from the analog side of things, i still have a hard time using the mouse.
But i know, many people that started right away with ITB/digital mixing do not have the same issues...
Unfortunately, since Sonar X1/2/3 the mackie control surface interface does behave differently than in the previous versions, so i am pretty much screwed. I even wrote a complete control surface configuration package with parameter feedback for the US-2400 for Sonar that I published to enhance all the functionality - now widely useless. Now i seem to have to wait, since Cakewalk makes their Mackie control surface DLL open source (which they said they would do - obviously they do not want to invest their own software developer ressources to it, which is a real shame in my opinion!).
Sigh.
I do not understand how the most DAW developers can underestimate the importance of control surface support so much.
It is really a shame.
Best regards,
Martin
|
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Dec 7, 2013 19:07:59 GMT -6
Sozo, I'm curious...have you always mixed on computers with mouse/key?
I'm certainly not gonna be mixing on a regular basis with just a mouse, but I mixed for 25 years with knobs and faders. I'm simply suggesting that if you are doing good work and quickly with that--that's what software--ALL of it is intended for. Hardware control implementation varies SO much unit to unit...app to app...with Avid dumping support for the C24, another nail inthe coffin of hardware support. Who in the hell would buy the NEW $15k controller to get it's support dumped?
I love my MCUs, buy only with Cubase's implementation. And with their vst3 "AI focus knob"...and now in v7 they've made for the NuAge controllers and even deeper controller hooks...I really feel like between it's IO compensation accuracy and controller support, I have no choice but to use Cubase.
Anyway, I'm ONLY suggesting if you've grown up using mice (for mixing) that maybe it's healthy to simply embrace that...means you can mix on your laptop at Starbucks...no, I don't mean final mixing in headphones--just suggesting there's a LOT of the job of mixing that "ok" monitoring is all that's needed...it keeps you more flexible in the (still bizarre to me) computer only recording world.
|
|
|
|
Post by henge on Dec 8, 2013 7:54:40 GMT -6
It seems the main point is if it ain't broke.... I grew up with faders but I'm more comfy with a mouse.
|
|
|
|
Post by sozocaps on Dec 8, 2013 10:39:35 GMT -6
ok... yes i use Nuendo and a mouse, (soulds like a song like The Wanderer lyrics by Johnny Cash bible and a gun } sounds like ill keep it that way
|
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Dec 8, 2013 16:40:39 GMT -6
Yes, I'm simply saying, I wouldn't get into big expensive controllers if they're not in your nature already.
However, the single channel faders....be it CC121 or Faderport I can't IMAGINE being without. Set them up so you click with the mouse on a channel and that's the one on the fader to adjust.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Dec 8, 2013 17:09:36 GMT -6
I'm happy with my C24 until I get an SSL Duality or AWS948. I have tried to work without a console/HUI and it just the most horrible experience in the entirety of my recording career.
|
|
|
|
Post by sozocaps on Dec 8, 2013 19:42:39 GMT -6
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2013 20:18:03 GMT -6
I mix on a really vintage mouse. It's one of the white ones with the two big clunky buttons. Serious depth and punch, the mcu/trackball guys will never understand.
Even my solitaire games have more of that good old school vibe.
|
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Dec 8, 2013 21:53:58 GMT -6
I have no idea why anyone would USE Nuendo, so I have no idea about the compatibility. That surprises me...was it always the case or just after they started making the Nuage controllers? I kinda think Nuendo is simply the app used by people who chose it over TDM back in the day (when Cubase was a glorified midi sequencer) and have kept upgrading. I, too, used it some years ago...but, now?
My issue with the CC121 has always been the huge amount of real-estate/knobs that are permanently wired into the EQ I will never use. At least let me remap them to something I might use. That said...the AI knob is a godsend. I just use Griffin knob for the purpose...saves the absurd "click on a virtual knob, have it change values to whatever random value and then turn"--just hover the mouse and turn the real knob. I will say some plug ins are a little better calibrated than others, but....that's why I always recommend the proprietary solution. You can spend $2-3k on some MCUs or $5k on a Nucleus, and not get the single most relevant (IME) control feature in the app.
I've considered ditching the 16 faders of MCU for a CC121+mouse. I would just need a really fast direct way to switch mixer views. Scrolling a mixer is for chumps. I love that I hit a button and all my drums are on the faders....hit another and all the "band instruments"....hit another and it's leads and busses--anyway, that's MY organization, but you can use them to carve it up any way makes sense to your workflow. There's only a handful of assignable buttons on the CC121.
|
|
|
|
Post by IamJohnGalt on Dec 9, 2013 12:42:53 GMT -6
I grew up mixing ITB and then with a 002. When I got real gear I tried to live without a control surface but it was tough. Looked at the nucleus but went with 3 Artist Mixs and a Artist Transport because Eucon capability being so much better than Hui...im on PT. Not cheap but I am very happy with the units.
|
|
|
|
Post by svart on Dec 9, 2013 12:54:12 GMT -6
I've always used a trackball for my recording setup. I use that and a console too. Just more stuff to use, that's all. I don't think I'll ever end up just doing one or the other.
|
|
|
|
Post by wreck on Dec 9, 2013 13:03:15 GMT -6
The thing about mouse mixing is the carpal tunnel. I had to move up from Jordan's vintage mouse to track ball and that worked for a while, but the carpal is back. I guess it's all about work flow. If I stuck a C24 on my desk right now, I'd be totally lost. I know how to get a song done right now. At least - I know how to get one done as best as I currently can. At this point, external gear gets me confused. All those wires and buttons. Pretty sure I don't even know what half the buttons in pro tools do. Thank Smirnoff for YouTube - that's my ProTools readers manual these days. Anyway, I nixed the free C24 and bought a wrist brace.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2013 16:17:15 GMT -6
I just look at all these control surfaces and it just looks like as much or more work than using a mouse. I'd spend the money on an Avid box but it doesn't appear to speed much up.
|
|
|
|
Post by sozocaps on Dec 9, 2013 17:17:46 GMT -6
I have no idea why anyone would USE Nuendo, so I have no idea about the compatibility. That surprises me...was it always the case or just after they started making the Nuage controllers? I kinda think Nuendo is simply the app used by people who chose it over TDM back in the day (when Cubase was a glorified midi sequencer) and have kept upgrading. I, too, used it some years ago...but, now? My issue with the CC121 has always been the huge amount of real-estate/knobs that are permanently wired into the EQ I will never use. At least let me remap them to something I might use. That said...the AI knob is a godsend. I just use Griffin knob for the purpose...saves the absurd "click on a virtual knob, have it change values to whatever random value and then turn"--just hover the mouse and turn the real knob. I will say some plug ins are a little better calibrated than others, but....that's why I always recommend the proprietary solution. You can spend $2-3k on some MCUs or $5k on a Nucleus, and not get the single most relevant (IME) control feature in the app. I've considered ditching the 16 faders of MCU for a CC121+mouse. I would just need a really fast direct way to switch mixer views. Scrolling a mixer is for chumps. I love that I hit a button and all my drums are on the faders....hit another and all the "band instruments"....hit another and it's leads and busses--anyway, that's MY organization, but you can use them to carve it up any way makes sense to your workflow. There's only a handful of assignable buttons on the CC121. I use Nuendo because thats what was given to me but I didnt buy it, I am on an old version I thought it was better then Cubase ahaha.... Im on an island when it comes to current technology sometimes. I am looking to upgrade, should I go Cubase or Protools-native , or ? I use an RME RayDat interface... |
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Dec 9, 2013 17:28:33 GMT -6
Well, there may be no reason to upgrade at all. cubase is a more mature native system....and will likely look/feel just like Nuendo (I haven't used it since v2 when they merged the engines). I couldn't take ProTools (10) on third party IO. Buggy and inefficient. Compensation was kludgey--and I needed to be able to integrate my outboard...that was a deal breaker. I like the UI fine of PT....but, it's truly second teir in everything I needed--in it's native form.
|
|
