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Post by swurveman on Nov 24, 2016 16:55:57 GMT -6
OK drummers I need your advice:
I want to buy a drum kit for the studio and for my personal use. I'd like to leanr how to play the drums. Good exercise and a good challenge. I really don't know enough about drums to cobble together a used kit. So, I want to start with something new including hi hat and cymbals. Is there something in the $2,500.00 range you'd recommend? We're in Black Friday mode. So, it's a good time.
Thanks to anybody with thoughts/recommendations.
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Post by svart on Nov 24, 2016 17:01:50 GMT -6
I've been playing Yamaha drums for 25 years now. If you can, find a recording custom set.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 24, 2016 17:28:39 GMT -6
Buy used on Craigslist. I use DW drums and love them. Mainly Zildjian cymbals for me.
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Post by wiz on Nov 24, 2016 17:48:06 GMT -6
I use a Yamaha Oak Custom... I would get either those, or a Recording Custom.... should be no problem at that price point. used of course.
cheers
Wiz
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Post by swurveman on Nov 24, 2016 19:17:26 GMT -6
I've been playing Yamaha drums for 25 years now. If you can, find a recording custom set. That's 60% less Hard to believe you're not losing quality in the used set, but I do not know enough about drums to know. |
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Post by swurveman on Nov 24, 2016 19:18:04 GMT -6
Buy used on Craigslist. I use DW drums and love them. Mainly Zildjian cymbals for me. Any particular DW set? |
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Post by svart on Nov 24, 2016 19:48:49 GMT -6
I've been playing Yamaha drums for 25 years now. If you can, find a recording custom set. That's 60% less Hard to believe you're not losing quality in the used set, but I do not know enough about drums to know. I guess it just comes down to marketing. I got my Recording Custom more than 15 years ago when the up-and-coming low end market was really starting to fill up. Pacific Drums and others were starting to fill GC and Mars with cheap, but reasonably decent kits and folks just plain stopped saving for the better but more expensive kits. When I started playing in the late 80's/early 90's, almost all drum kits were what we now consider "professional" grade and were easily 1000$+ with the basic hardware. Thankfully for me, those cheap kits really dropped the bottom out of the used drum market of the time. Kids just didn't want used grandpa drums when they could have modern half-price drums in odd sizes and in neon colors. You could walk into any place that had used drums and pick and choose used drums for pennies on the dollar. If you buy used, look at the bearing edges, make sure they are in good shape, the hardware is not damaged and make sure the chrome is in good shape and the drum is overall undamaged. The biggest issues with used drums are hoops that are bent out of shape, chrome that is badly corroded/pitted/cracked, and bearing edges that have been modified or are otherwise damaged. Yamaha hardware is tough, and I've not had any failures with anything of theirs, including their bottom tier lineups. I've had a few failures with Ludwig and DW, but mostly in their cheap lineup, mostly stuff cracking when tightening collars and such. However, I will say that more than half the sound of the drum is the combination of heads and tuning. The next biggest is the bearing edge and the hoops.. The rest is the wood and other hardware. That being said, I wouldn't worry much about any drumset firmly in the mid-level to professional class of drumsets. While you can find gems in the lower tiers, it's the hardware of the cheap sets that hold you back the most. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 24, 2016 20:08:29 GMT -6
I've only used DW Collectors Series, not the newer, less expensive performance series.
Another alternative is a higher end Premier kit. The Artist Maple or Birch and the Genista sets are nice sounding drums (with cheaper hardware), but are super unfashionable these days. Steals to be had.
Drums also don't hold value well because most people don't want to deal with shipping them. Bulky and expensive. Limited buyer pool means lower prices.
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Post by swurveman on Nov 25, 2016 9:32:17 GMT -6
I've only used DW Collectors Series, not the newer, less expensive performance series. Another alternative is a higher end Premier kit. The Artist Maple or Birch and the Genista sets are nice sounding drums (with cheaper hardware), but are super unfashionable these days. Steals to be had. Drums also don't hold value well because most people don't want to deal with shipping them. Bulky and expensive. Limited buyer pool means lower prices. Is there a good all around snare drum that doesn't have a lot of resonance that you'd recommend? |
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Post by swurveman on Nov 25, 2016 9:34:11 GMT -6
$4,419.00 new$1,750.00 usedThat's 60% less Hard to believe you're not losing quality in the used set, but I do not know enough about drums to know. I guess it just comes down to marketing. I got my Recording Custom more than 15 years ago when the up-and-coming low end market was really starting to fill up. Pacific Drums and others were starting to fill GC and Mars with cheap, but reasonably decent kits and folks just plain stopped saving for the better but more expensive kits. When I started playing in the late 80's/early 90's, almost all drum kits were what we now consider "professional" grade and were easily 1000$+ with the basic hardware. Thankfully for me, those cheap kits really dropped the bottom out of the used drum market of the time. Kids just didn't want used grandpa drums when they could have modern half-price drums in odd sizes and in neon colors. You could walk into any place that had used drums and pick and choose used drums for pennies on the dollar. If you buy used, look at the bearing edges, make sure they are in good shape, the hardware is not damaged and make sure the chrome is in good shape and the drum is overall undamaged. The biggest issues with used drums are hoops that are bent out of shape, chrome that is badly corroded/pitted/cracked, and bearing edges that have been modified or are otherwise damaged. Yamaha hardware is tough, and I've not had any failures with anything of theirs, including their bottom tier lineups. I've had a few failures with Ludwig and DW, but mostly in their cheap lineup, mostly stuff cracking when tightening collars and such. However, I will say that more than half the sound of the drum is the combination of heads and tuning. The next biggest is the bearing edge and the hoops.. The rest is the wood and other hardware. That being said, I wouldn't worry much about any drumset firmly in the mid-level to professional class of drumsets. While you can find gems in the lower tiers, it's the hardware of the cheap sets that hold you back the most. Thanks for your informed reply. Unfortunately, I live in a relatively small town with not a lot of options. Chicago is two hours away. So, I'll have to look there for a good used set. I will say this: I've been looking on Craigslist in Chicago and Nashville. There are not a lot of Recording Custom Drum sets for sale, but there are a few deals, though nothing as low as $2,500.00. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Nov 25, 2016 9:52:19 GMT -6
I think it depends on the music you are going to record and what sounds you're going after. The sizes and depth of the drums have a lot to do with it too.
I have a mid 50's Slingerland Radio King set in 22, 13, 16, and 14 snare that I got on ebay 4 years ago for $900 and its in beautiful condition, no extra holes or mounts attached, etc.
I also have a mid 60's Rogers kit in a 20, 12, 16 setup.
On top of that are 7 different snare drums ranging from the 30's to a modern Yamaha.
With these kits and snares, and using different tuning methods and changing their placement in the rooms I record in, I feel like I can get pretty much any sound I need to for the music I do.
Now, I'm not recording heavy rock, or metal, so I have no use for a new kit with 6 toms and double ply clear heads etc.
I don't think I've ever buy a new kit, just because as already stated, they drop in price faster than when you drive a new car off the lot.
You can still get great deals on kits from the 60's and 70's. I'd search around for a Ludwig Standard from that era personally.
There are great deals I see pop up from a dude in Nashville - his instagram feed is under "thedrumtamer" - he posts great videos of the sounds of the kits, puts new heads on all the drums, makes sure they are in great shape, etc - and has pretty unbelievable prices when he sells.
If, you don't want to deal with the used thing, I think Yamaha makes some of the best new drums out there. I've got a good friend and client of mine that is a Yamaha artist and gets every new set they put out sent his way. I'm always impressed with the quality and sound of these things, the hardware is robust, and they always record really well.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Nov 25, 2016 9:53:11 GMT -6
Oh, and a Ludwig Acrolite is a great snare if you're only going to have 1. You can get lots of different tones out of them.
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Post by swurveman on Nov 25, 2016 11:09:52 GMT -6
Speaking of drums.....
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 25, 2016 12:49:34 GMT -6
I thoroughly enjoyed that video...only made it to 50 though.
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Post by svart on Nov 25, 2016 13:07:40 GMT -6
If you can find a decent Tama starclassic, then those would be my second choice, then lower end Yamahas.
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Post by sean on Nov 25, 2016 17:24:25 GMT -6
I sell a lot of kits, if you're interested I have a '68 Psych Red Ludwig 22/16/13/12 with 5" Supraphonic (not cheap but rare, classic, and won't ever go down in value), a Sonor Teardrop 20/12/13/16 in Red Oyster, and a '71 Rogers 22/16/13/12 in Butcher Block.
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Post by svart on Nov 25, 2016 23:16:36 GMT -6
Came across this set: www.ebay.com/itm/162227656470Get a black beauty snare and a set of sabian AAX, HH or HHX you're home free. The sabian HH is rumored to be the same bronze as zildjian K series since sabian was started by one of the zildjian family members. |
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Post by sean on Nov 26, 2016 8:29:01 GMT -6
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Post by swurveman on Nov 26, 2016 8:40:08 GMT -6
The more I listen to drums and drummers, the more I like this type of darker sound.
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Post by sean on Nov 26, 2016 8:43:49 GMT -6
Gretsch SSB are Jasper shells, no re-rings like vintage Slingerland, Ludwig, or Rogers. Little more open sound. Sonor drums have a similar construction just different wood. Those are tuned really slack. And obviously no kick drum sounds like that in real life
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Post by svart on Nov 26, 2016 8:50:34 GMT -6
The more I listen to drums and drummers, the more I like this type of darker sound. Remo pinstripes with half a moongel each, tuned top head lower than bottom will give you a similar sound on any decent kit. I also like aquarian heads, they let you tune lower than the others without the floppy sound. |
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Post by swurveman on Nov 26, 2016 9:53:04 GMT -6
Remo pinstripes with half a moongel each, tuned top head lower than bottom will give you a similar sound on any decent kit. I also like aquarian heads, they let you tune lower than the others without the floppy sound. Is there a "decent" new kit in the $2,500.00 range including snare? There is a big price drop from Yamaha Recording Custom to Yamaha Stage Custom. In my area the best used kit is a DW Performance series kit. Is that decent? Better than Yamaha Stage Custom? I can get the performance series new for 1,805.00. So, I'm thinking this is not so great a deal. Sorry for the questions. The big problem for me is I like the sound of these vintage kits, but there are none close by and they are old and probably need someone who knows what they're doing. I need a good kit to learn on that doesn't take a lot of prior knowledge and hands on experience. If I have to wait and save to get the real deal new I will. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 26, 2016 9:57:02 GMT -6
Remo pinstripes with half a moongel each, tuned top head lower than bottom will give you a similar sound on any decent kit. I also like aquarian heads, they let you tune lower than the others without the floppy sound. Is there a "decent" new kit in the $2,500.00 range including snare? There is a big price drop from Yamaha Recording Custom to Yamaha Stage Custom. In my area the best used kit is a DW Performance series kit. Is that decent? Better than Yamaha Stage Custom? Sorry for the questions. The big problem for me is I like the sound of these vintage kits, but there are none close by and they are old and probably need someone who knows what they're doing. I need a good kit to learn on that doesn't take a lot of prior knowledge and hands on experience. If I have to wait and save to get the real deal new I will. Give it a week or 2 and I'm sure something will pop up on Craigslist. Do you have a guitar center local to you? I've had luck with used drums there too. Buying new drums is really pissing into the wind. |
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Post by swurveman on Nov 26, 2016 10:05:25 GMT -6
Is there a "decent" new kit in the $2,500.00 range including snare? There is a big price drop from Yamaha Recording Custom to Yamaha Stage Custom. In my area the best used kit is a DW Performance series kit. Is that decent? Better than Yamaha Stage Custom? Sorry for the questions. The big problem for me is I like the sound of these vintage kits, but there are none close by and they are old and probably need someone who knows what they're doing. I need a good kit to learn on that doesn't take a lot of prior knowledge and hands on experience. If I have to wait and save to get the real deal new I will. Give it a week or 2 and I'm sure something will pop up on Craigslist. Do you have a guitar center local to you? I've had luck with used drums there too. Buying new drums is really pissing into the wind. Yeah, Christmas is coming and there may be some selling. The problem I have is understanding what is "good enough" for recording. Am I being unreasonable for thinking I can get a "good enough" kit and snare for $2,500.00? I have cymbals and a hi hat. Or, do I need to spend more? Just trying to hone in. |
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Post by sean on Nov 26, 2016 10:09:46 GMT -6
I have a late 60's Ludwig 22/13/16 at the studio and in two years I can only think of one person who brought there own kit for a project, and that's Jerry Roe who has a $10,000 Craviatto set.
I'm not trying to sell you something, but a 50's-70's Slingerland, Ludwig, Rogers, Gretsch, Sonor, or Camco will work 99% of the time. And will be well under $2,500, even with cymbals.
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