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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 21, 2016 18:01:45 GMT -6
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Post by Bender on Nov 21, 2016 23:56:27 GMT -6
Interesting.... Does this Australian shop/capsule creator have anything to do with Guosheng I ponder?π€π€
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Post by timcampbell on Nov 22, 2016 8:20:47 GMT -6
3U Audio 18/30 Ramsay Rd Five Dock NSW 2046 Australia
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 22, 2016 8:36:36 GMT -6
Too bad Kiddyvibes is only now with us in good spirit as he would be all over this thread (in a very good and knowledgable way) . I know Ragan knows the 3u mikes well but as this is a Warm cap I guess we may just have to wait to get the details next month ?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 22, 2016 8:53:51 GMT -6
Does anyone else this this name seems super cheesy? Kind of a "if we use German words for our Chinese made capsule, people will think it's legit". kcatthedog, I'm not trying to crap on Warm here. I like and use their products and am interested in seeing how this mic is along with the 412. I just think this kind of marketing is cheap.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 22, 2016 8:57:50 GMT -6
Does anyone else this this name seems super cheesy? Kind of a "if we use German words for our Chinese made capsule, people will think it's legit".Β kcatthedog, I'm not trying to crap on Warm here. I like and use their products and am interested in seeing how this mic is along with the 412. I just think this kind of marketing is cheap. Totally thought the same thing...but a good quality 87 is a valuable commodity. Although, the 3U stuff seems to be very similar for a little cheaper.
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 22, 2016 10:42:47 GMT -6
Well, if we all put our negative cultural manufacturing stereotypes aside, myself included, what's the history here ? Back in the day, Neumann invited chinese engineers to its plants so they could learn processes and they returned to china and applied this knowledge with albeit mixed results. Fast forward to current times, enter a new chinese engineer who apparently decided to place strict quality control on parts and manufacturing processes including dedicated manufacture to his specs and approval of the caps. I don't actually know anything specific about the warm 87, other than what I have read on the site. So,the factual,historical link for me is the Warm attempt to clone the original 87, not the ai, married with 3u's similar adherence to the original specs,parts and high qc ? But that's just my .o2 Deutchmark and or yen's worth:take it or leave it !
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 22, 2016 10:45:22 GMT -6
Well, if we all put our negative cultural manufacturing stereotypes aside, myself included, what's the history here ? See, I'm not even saying Chinese made things are bad, like the stereotype implies. I just think it's cheesy that they're trying to mask the Chinese lineage (I expect) with some German words.
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Post by Ward on Nov 22, 2016 11:11:05 GMT -6
Well, if we all put our negative cultural manufacturing stereotypes aside, myself included, what's the history here ? See, I'm not even saying Chinese made things are bad, like the stereotype implies. I just think it's cheesy that they're trying to mask the Chinese lineage (I expect) with some German words. Let's try and address this honestly. Chinese manufacturing, whilst not excellent, is very very good. The quality issues are rooted in: 1. material supply and quality (garbage in, garbage out) 2. Ingenuity is not a practice of the assembly line, so don't fault a country for following normal procedures. 3. Engineering for most western things manufactured, produced or assembled in China is done by Western engineers. They're just following instructions. If QA is as high at a Chinese branch plant as it is at the equivalent western factory, supervision and inspection at the same levels, and all procedures are followed to exact spec, there should be no issues whatsoever. But too often these better business practices aren't followed because there isn't enough instruction, supervision or QA put in place.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,009
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Post by ericn on Nov 22, 2016 11:20:31 GMT -6
See, I'm not even saying Chinese made things are bad, like the stereotype implies. I just think it's cheesy that they're trying to mask the Chinese lineage (I expect) with some German words. Let's try and address this honestly. Chinese manufacturing, whilst not excellent, is very very good. The quality issues are rooted in: 1. material supply and quality (garbage in, garbage out) 2. Ingenuity is not a practice of the assembly line, so don't fault a country for following normal procedures. 3. Engineering for most western things manufactured, produced or assembled in China is done by Western engineers. They're just following instructions. If QA is as high at a Chinese branch plant as it is at the equivalent western factory, supervision and inspection at the same levels, and all procedures are followed to exact spec, there should be no issues whatsoever. But too often these better business practices aren't followed because there isn't enough instruction, supervision or QA put in place. Don't forget your talking about a system where your still beholden to the masters who have yet to understand the value of high quality niche craftsmen, instead of high output large scale manufacturers. It's a cultural thing. The talent is there in will someday equal the rest of the world. This is also an effect of the government and institutional lack of respect for intellectual property, the one part of the communist they seam to still embrace the idea belongs to everybody, but the cash is yours!
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Post by jakeharris on Nov 22, 2016 11:34:04 GMT -6
China is moving so much faster than the rest of the world, it's impossible to generalise about their behaviour or quality. They're constantly evolving, and already at the same level as Europe and the US:
It's the Western clients hiring them, who are rarely interested in exploiting their true capabilities...
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Post by Ward on Nov 22, 2016 11:49:59 GMT -6
like the stereotype implies.. Sometimes I type so fast, I think I need two keyboards, one for each hand... but then I realize I would be stereotyping.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 22, 2016 11:52:00 GMT -6
like the stereotype implies.. Sometimes I type so fast, I think I need two keyboards, one for each hand... but then I realize I would be stereotyping. Try the veal.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2016 12:19:56 GMT -6
Sometimes I type so fast, I think I need two keyboards, one for each hand... but then I realize I would be stereotyping. Try the veal. .... on my Wolksvagon ....
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 22, 2016 12:43:10 GMT -6
Well, if we all put our negative cultural manufacturing stereotypes aside, myself included, what's the history here ? See, I'm not even saying Chinese made things are bad, like the stereotype implies. I just think it's cheesy that they're trying to mask the Chinese lineage (I expect) with some German words. no offence, but I think you are missing the point of what I wrote which is just that I assume they just mean that respectfully, in terms of the lineage of the actual development of 3u, if its him and the approach Warm Audio took to the development of this 87 clone. I frankly wonder if its meant humorously and tongue in cheek ? Bryce seems to have a great sense of humour and he has certainly used the uber expression to me in some of our email exchanges , maybe he thinks the name is uber funny ?!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 22, 2016 12:54:54 GMT -6
Isn't Beeznees in Australia too? Are we certain it's Guosheng making these?
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 22, 2016 13:06:41 GMT -6
Yes and no: its like a bad date, cus either way you are going to pay
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Nov 22, 2016 13:13:32 GMT -6
In the past Bryce has said it's not Beesneez or 3U!
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Post by wiz on Nov 22, 2016 14:49:46 GMT -6
Isn't Beeznees in Australia too? Are we certain it's Guosheng making these? No way, that company wouldnt be able to keep up.
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Post by wiz on Nov 22, 2016 14:53:43 GMT -6
Well, If it aint 3U, I don't know who it would be here...
Making capsules in a clean room environment, its got to be overseas....to do the volume.
I thought I read, Warm "consulted" with an engineer in australia, and the capsules were "made" in a clean room environment.
My guess, uneducated as it is... 3U guy is the consultant... somewhere in China is the factory... perhaps not 3Us factory... somewhere else.
Heres my two cents...
Its not going to be a neumann capsule... when have you ever heard a mass manufactured capsule, from anywhere that sounds as good as a neumann at this sort of price point... ?
Its also only 599 RRP so disregard the last sentence.... 8)
it won't be a U87, neither will the Stam, what remains to be seen, are they good mics at their respective price points.
In a way, its dissapointing that both mics have 87 in their names... that number is there for one point only, to sell microphones.
If it had a different number, no one would be talking about them
cheers
Wiz
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Post by ragan on Nov 22, 2016 16:08:32 GMT -6
Well, If it aint 3U, I don't know who it would be here... Making capsules in a clean room environment, its got to be overseas....to do the volume. I thought I read, Warm "consulted" with an engineer in australia, and the capsules were "made" in a clean room environment. My guess, uneducated as it is... 3U guy is the consultant... somewhere in China is the factory... perhaps not 3Us factory... somewhere else. Heres my two cents... Its not going to be a neumann capsule... when have you ever heard a mass manufactured capsule, from anywhere that sounds as good as a neumann at this sort of price point... ? Its also only 599 RRP so disregard the last sentence.... 8) it won't be a U87, neither will the Stam, what remains to be seen, are they good mics at their respective price points. In a way, its dissapointing that both mics have 87 in their names... that number is there for one point only, to sell microphones. If it had a different number, no one would be talking about them cheers Wiz I don't necessarily disagree but the number also serves to let the casual browser know what kind of mic/circuit it is. Still marketing, for sure, but it's also just informative as far as what general ballpark the thing's in, sonically.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Nov 22, 2016 16:09:17 GMT -6
Let me jump of the ten foot diving board flying squirrel style into this thread pool π Hey our macs are made in China, like my Polo boxers and white t's are Mexican and Sri Lankan!
I originally speculated it was 3u designing the caps. I have never seen them, used them, however if Bryce did use 3u, the LK caps will be differentiated from 3u anyway so as not to resemble or look like. That leaves the sound, which only a few have heard, because we all don't have the wa87/ 3u in our hand to compare or shootout, that will be coming soon as we all know.
The LK name is weird for a Texas based company to use. Bryce has never relied on fancy words before, just great price and good to great sound for the price point. I am anxious to hear this mic myself but Wiz doing an A/B with his u87 would be good enough for me to hear the quality. I am rooting for Warm and Stam hope these Mics do sound like the $3,000 mic they are emulating... ewww emulating just gave me a weird nasty bitter taste in my mouth, I know I just brusehed too π And I love SW
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 22, 2016 18:09:16 GMT -6
I guess the bottom line for me is, what do we all know about the Warm design and manufacturing approach ? What I know is that, Bryce strives to bring the best emulation of the piece of gear to market he can but at a more competitive price point. So, if that means getting Cinemag to recreate the performance of the original (Reichenbach?) transformers, based on the original docs, or getting the best t4 cell that he can, he does and his customers' recordings benefit.
I know their 87 is not a real 87 and I don't expect it to be, but what I do expect is something authentic to the design heritage and spec of the mike, meaning Neumann standards and that includes the cap: its derivative in the best sense of the word.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 22, 2016 19:30:49 GMT -6
Where this gets interesting is at different price points. For $600, you can get the Avantone CV95 or the MXL Heritage Edition, around $1100 you can get a Soundelux U95, a Mojave MA200, around $1800, a Blackspade UM17R or a Telefunken AR51 and a dozen other good mics. So, it really depends on where the Warm lands in comparison. If it runs with the $1,100 price range, then it's a tremendous deal, since there's always the potential to mod. But if it's neck and neck with the Neumann U87AI, then it's a game changer.
Bryce has surprised us all many times, so it's possible he's nailed it, and I sure hope he did.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Nov 22, 2016 20:34:24 GMT -6
Could that be an ADK capsule ? They've been designed in Australia, and are manufactured in China. Supposed to be quite good.
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