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Post by mulmany on Oct 30, 2016 10:29:09 GMT -6
Gefell MV692, Anyone here have experience with this SDC?
People who sell them say they are similar to km84's.
They pop up a good bit for a good price.
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 30, 2016 10:32:55 GMT -6
One of the closest Mic's I've heard to a KM84 is the Miktek C5. Gefell has good mics though.
J
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Post by drbill on Oct 30, 2016 10:41:31 GMT -6
Which capsule on the 692?
An important note -- the 692 is not only a SDC. It's also a LDC with a UM70 or M71 capsule. Both of which have original M7 capsules.
Those combos are desert island mics for me and my clients even though they look funny.
IMO, the Gefell is not a replacement for a KM84 unless you want a brighter KM84. The closest SDC to a KM84 IMO is a MJoly modded 012.
That said, the 692/UM70/M70/M71's are desert island mics for me, and always get used. The M71's or UM 70's are ALWAYS on drum overheads, only eclipsed by REAL C12's which I cannot afford. I have been looking for a REAL C12 replacement for 15+ years, and have not found anything better than the 692/UM70.
Also, UM70 in Fig8 on front of kick is standard fare for me.
Female vocals are often out of this world on a M71 or UM70 up close.
The capsules I use the least are the SDC capsules with the 692. But they are still great. In the "brightness" lineup, it's KM84 darkest, then 692/M70 - still Neumanesque but brighter, them vintage AKG C451. If that helps.
The Gefell is not a replacement for a KM84, but still an awesome mic. I have 7 692/xxx mics and could easily use 5 more....
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Post by hasbeen on Oct 30, 2016 10:55:44 GMT -6
The closest SDC to a KM84 IMO is a MJoly modded 012. Or a KM86i maybe? LOVE my collection of Gefell!!! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 30, 2016 11:09:29 GMT -6
One of the closest Mic's I've heard to a KM84 is the Miktek C5. Gefell has good mics though. J Man, wasn't my take on the Miktek |
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 30, 2016 11:20:50 GMT -6
One of the closest Mic's I've heard to a KM84 is the Miktek C5. Gefell has good mics though. J Man, wasn't my take on the Miktek Was mine, Miktek might be a little brighter but still very KM84ish. |
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Post by drbill on Oct 30, 2016 11:45:53 GMT -6
The closest SDC to a KM84 IMO is a MJoly modded 012. Or a KM86i maybe? LOVE my collection of Gefell!!! Well of course. But I was assuming the OP was looking for a cheaper - not more expensive - alternative. Actually, at this point after obtaining a couple mint KM86's, I definitely prefer the 86 over 84 most of the time. The HF on the 86 seems more "connected" to the overall sound of the mic in comparison to an 84. The 84's are still great for more aggressive sounding parts. NOTE : "brighter" is not something I want with a KM84/86 mic or clone. "Open" is what those mics have in spades, along with a wonderful midrange. Makes them no brainers on everything - especially stringed instruments. It's easy to get more HF out of them with placement or EQ. The Chinese SDC's are almost always too zingy in a bad way for me. If I want a "bright" SDC, the vintage 451's are brilliant. |
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Post by Ward on Oct 30, 2016 22:18:07 GMT -6
The 692 is somewhat KM80-series ish, the 582 is very KM50-series-ish. Would that you could use Neumann-Berlin and Neumann-Gefell capsules interchangeably on each other's microphones.
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Post by junior on Oct 30, 2016 22:40:45 GMT -6
Dr. Bill's drum mic thread on another site is what sold me on the 692's so I bought some with M71 and M70 caps. Love 'em. Also, love my newer M930's as well. Can't go wrong with the Gefells. Thanks, Dr. Bill!  |
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Post by drbill on Oct 30, 2016 22:44:17 GMT -6
Dr. Bill's drum mic thread on another site is what sold me on the 692's so I bought some with M71 and M70 caps. Love 'em. Also, love my newer M930's as well. Can't go wrong with the Gefells. Thanks, Dr. Bill! Sweet!!! You're absolutely welcome. Glad you're diggin' em. |
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Post by mulmany on Nov 1, 2016 10:08:33 GMT -6
Thanks for all the feedback. The pair I as looking at sold before I could make a decision. drbill, have yours been modified for 48v or do you use the psu? |
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Post by drbill on Nov 1, 2016 11:09:48 GMT -6
Thanks for all the feedback. The pair I as looking at sold before I could make a decision. drbill , have yours been modified for 48v or do you use the psu? Mine are from the early to mid 90's and have 48v stock from the factory. |
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Post by markfouxman on Nov 2, 2016 19:24:11 GMT -6
Gefell MV692, Anyone here have experience with this SDC? People who sell them say they are similar to km84's. They pop up a good bit for a good price. As mentioned the MV692 has a few capsules, where SDC's are M70 and M94. Those are rare examples of Nickel diaphragm capsules and their construction much more reminds KM54. It is a 3 chambered design and is very different from KM84, which is larger diameter and is 2 chambered, with grooved backplate. The M70 has a built in roll off on the low end to compensate for proximity with close miking. The M94 has a linear response. Those are very nice capsules, but sonically very different from KM84. The limiting factor is MV692 body electronics. It uses a made in house low quality chip, quite noisy jFET and transformer (lamination looks like M6). We used to make a mod bypassing that chip (removing from the circuitry) and replacing the jFET with its associated biasing circuit. Unfortunately, stopped doing those long ago due to the time restriction... The M70/94 are still used in M270 and M294 (which electronics by far better). Best, M |
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Post by drbill on Nov 2, 2016 22:39:06 GMT -6
Several well known modding guys have told me the Gefell's suck, and that I should off them to an unsuspecting soul on Ebay.  LOL They are at the top of my list of desert island mics., I have no noise problems, and they sound wonderful. :-) <thumbsup> Especially the LDC's. If anyone wants to dump their pieces of $#@! Gefell 692/xxx mics let me know. Reminds me of when I had a brilliant tech build me a few CAPI vp26's. He looked at the schematic for about 1 minute and then asked me if I wanted him to "fix" the pre's so they would work "like they should" after he built them. I told him "hell no!!!!!!!!! - build em like the schematic says!!!!" |
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Post by markfouxman on Nov 2, 2016 23:37:33 GMT -6
Several well known modding guys have told me the Gefell's suck, and that I should off them to an unsuspecting soul on Ebay. LOL They are at the top of my list of desert island mics., I have no noise problems, and they sound wonderful. :-) <thumbsup> Especially the LDC's. If anyone wants to dump their pieces of $#@! Gefell 692/xxx mics let me know. Reminds me of when I had a brilliant tech build me a few CAPI vp26's. He looked at the schematic for about 1 minute and then asked me if I wanted him to "fix" the pre's so they would work "like they should" after he built them. I told him "hell no!!!!!!!!! - build em like the schematic says!!!!" I am glad the LDC MV692 works for your needs. I am not sure who is the "brilliant tech" you refer to, but if Gefell goes into troubles of complete redesigning of the mic electronics using the same wonderful capsules it means the folks at Gefell know what they are doing. To answer OP again, no, the MV692 is nowhere close to KM84. It is just... a thing on its own. Best, M |
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Post by Randge on Nov 3, 2016 3:37:37 GMT -6
One of the closest Mic's I've heard to a KM84 is the Miktek C5. Gefell has good mics though. J Man, wasn't my take on the Miktek The C5 is cleaner and faster than an 84, so with the right compression, you can take it right there. I love my stock pair and use them a lot. With 84's, I find myself brightening them to sit in the mix better on mandolin and percussion, which is where I use the C5's most and they excel at those tasks. For a cost effective SDC, the C5 is hard to beat. I'd rather have a tube SDC on acoustic guitars, so I wouldn't use an 84 there. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 3, 2016 7:52:50 GMT -6
Man, wasn't my take on the Miktek The C5 is cleaner and faster than an 84, so with the right compression, you can take it right there. I love my stock pair and use them a lot. With 84's, I find myself brightening them to sit in the mix better on mandolin and percussion, which is where I use the C5's most and they excel at those tasks. For a cost effective SDC, the C5 is hard to beat. I'd rather have a tube SDC on acoustic guitars, so I wouldn't use an 84 there. I agree I found myself brightening with acoustic on 84s. |
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Post by Randge on Nov 3, 2016 10:13:41 GMT -6
The C5 is cleaner and faster than an 84, so with the right compression, you can take it right there. I love my stock pair and use them a lot. With 84's, I find myself brightening them to sit in the mix better on mandolin and percussion, which is where I use the C5's most and they excel at those tasks. For a cost effective SDC, the C5 is hard to beat. I'd rather have a tube SDC on acoustic guitars, so I wouldn't use an 84 there. I agree I found myself brightening with acoustic on 84s. In my opinion, many acoustic instruments need tubes and mics like the KM-54 and Akg C-28 are where the magic is. I use the Peluso P-28, (only one of their line I really like) as they get pretty close to the C-28's. I need to get fancy and talk jsteiger out of his C-28's... |
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Post by hasbeen on Nov 3, 2016 10:49:51 GMT -6
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Post by drbill on Nov 3, 2016 11:29:05 GMT -6
I am glad the LDC MV692 works for your needs. I am not sure who is the "brilliant tech" you refer to, but if Gefell goes into troubles of complete redesigning of the mic electronics using the same wonderful capsules it means the folks at Gefell know what they are doing. To answer OP again, no, the MV692 is nowhere close to KM84. It is just... a thing on its own. Best, M I have nothing but the utmost respect for Gefell, and consider them to be one of - if not THE - leading designer of mics in 2016. But much like their sister company who is now owned by Sennheiser, they are a bit "out of touch". The new UMT70/71's indeed have better specs and lower noise.......and yet......myself and most others I know prefer the "inferior" POS old ones. Yes, they know how to make a "better" mic. But specs in and of itself do not make a great product that will stand the test of time. Most engineers I've talked with prefer the old ones. Go figure. The last person I listen to is a designer who tells me they have "redesigned" a classic to "make it better". I do agree with you that a 692/M70 is not a KM84, but it certainly has a Neumann-esque vibe to it, although brighter. A good mic, but not a KM84. |
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Post by markfouxman on Nov 3, 2016 22:24:55 GMT -6
I am glad the LDC MV692 works for your needs. I am not sure who is the "brilliant tech" you refer to, but if Gefell goes into troubles of complete redesigning of the mic electronics using the same wonderful capsules it means the folks at Gefell know what they are doing. To answer OP again, no, the MV692 is nowhere close to KM84. It is just... a thing on its own. Best, M I have nothing but the utmost respect for Gefell, and consider them to be one of - if not THE - leading designer of mics in 2016. But much like their sister company who is now owned by Sennheiser, they are a bit "out of touch". The new UMT70/71's indeed have better specs and lower noise.......and yet......myself and most others I know prefer the "inferior" POS old ones. Yes, they know how to make a "better" mic. But specs in and of itself do not make a great product that will stand the test of time. Most engineers I've talked with prefer the old ones. Go figure. The last person I listen to is a designer who tells me they have "redesigned" a classic to "make it better". I do agree with you that a 692/M70 is not a KM84, but it certainly has a Neumann-esque vibe to it, although brighter. A good mic, but not a KM84. No doubt, very often the beauty is in that "imperfection" or "inferiority". In many cases the colored sound of MV692 works very nicely for some application. On the other hand, we had a lot of complainings on exactly the same issue--too colored--so the MV692 is not exactly known for its "universal" qualities unlike something like say, C12, which you mentioned (which of course, has totally different sonic signature, all together). I am sure Gefell was aware of it and I don't think it is a matter of "out of touch". The issue with the re-production, I think, was the budget, so to save on manufacturing expenses they made them transformerless. In that respect, I totally understand your issues with the outcome. No doubt, the original transformer coupled are a bit more 'musical', whatever it means... Another problem is inconsistency. Those, made in the former GDR often had Russian parts inside, with very broad tolerances (100% is not unusual), so it doesn't help either. In the end, that mics are really cool. If you have a chance to grab one for a decent price in a good working order (no matter which capsule)--totally do it! There always be an application you will find it irreplaceable. Best, M |
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olionajudah
Full Member
just learning .. one mistake at a time
Posts: 48 
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Post by olionajudah on Oct 17, 2019 16:58:46 GMT -6
Any opinions on what a decent price is for an mv692 w. UM70 or M70 or M71 capsules these days?
Ballpark?
Also, am I safer sticking to p48 models or should I still be fine with one of the older models with power supply?
Wondering how likely I am to run into a poor capsule or problematic mv692.. and how easy these are to have serviced.
thank you!
mm
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Post by hadaja on Oct 17, 2019 23:06:16 GMT -6
I have owned that mic, i too thought my Miktek c5 sounded closer to a km84 then the Gefell.
These capsules are old so there a few not so good ones out there. What sound are you trying to get with a gefell?
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Post by swafford on Oct 18, 2019 2:03:37 GMT -6
Any opinions on what a decent price is for an mv692 w. UM70 or M70 or M71 capsules these days? Ballpark? Also, am I safer sticking to p48 models or should I still be fine with one of the older models with power supply? Wondering how likely I am to run into a poor capsule or problematic mv692.. and how easy these are to have serviced. thank you! mm Everytime I think about selling my pair, I review sold pricing on Ebay and Reverb. 6 months ago that was $900 - $1300 for a 692/UM70. Then I put them up on something and think "don't be an idiot!" Luckily that week I had some old friends over to rehearse for a benefit gig they roped into, put them up about 2 feet out as vocal/guitar mics on me and the other singer and I was blown away at the single mic capture. Can't comment on the reliability of a used capsule - it's used. I'm sure if you buy one from a reliable seller - retail or private - on the higher end of the price scale, you'd be fine, but you know, old sh!t breaks. It's my understanding from the Gefell Repair thread in the remote forum on GS that they only have factory repairs in Europe and it takes awhile to get them serviced. There were some in the classifieds a few months back, I think. Good luck! Definitely a workhorse mic. |
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Post by Omicron9 on Oct 18, 2019 8:01:10 GMT -6
Dr. Bill's drum mic thread on another site is what sold me on the 692's so I bought some with M71 and M70 caps. Love 'em. Also, love my newer M930's as well. Can't go wrong with the Gefells. Thanks, Dr. Bill! The Gefell M-930 is stunning. And it seems to be largely unknown. A long-time fave of mine for sure. -09 |
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