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Post by viciousbliss on Oct 26, 2016 22:19:16 GMT -6
Hi all,
I'm constantly maxing out my I5 Gateway DX computer running at 88 khz using stuff like Satin, Sknote Strip, CLA Classic Comps, Pro Q2, Altiverb, Autotune 8, L1, Analog Channel 202, Analog Stage, Waves Ren, Primal Tap, Ultrareverb, Puigchild, and the H3000 Factory. When I tried Neutron, nothing will play at all. Even if it's just 5-7 tracks and 4 auxes. I did some research on computers, and something like an HPZ800 looks like it'd do well for my Pro Tools Native setup. People have claimed to run hundreds of D-verbs over 200 tracks without a freeze. With this computer I'd be surprised if I could run 40 D-verbs. But I've also read other threads where people say they need AAX-DSP because that technology is the only thing that works for big sessions. UA looked less expensive than the Avid stuff, but it's still going to cost 3-4k if my understanding is correct. So, what's the verdict nowadays?
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 26, 2016 23:09:33 GMT -6
I would not buy the UAD card again.
Since my mac is twice as powerful...
But why 88.2 I did try it several times and it did not gave me anything special compared to 44.1
4 verbs for a mix is not bad.
buy a verb pug in which is less cpu hungry VVV?
buy one or two outboad verbs?
Freeze tracks helps a lot if you run out of power.
You also will save power using the daws stock plug ins, most useres miss them but they can be useful.
If you work with software instruments switch off the ones you do not use.
Or just use more audio tracks....saves a lot of power.
In the past I did print the VSTis when it came to the mix stage, the laptop was powerful again.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 27, 2016 5:17:56 GMT -6
I'd say you need to decide what your budget is and how you want to record and mix ? If you feel UA provides the sound quality you want and you want to track with UA plugs with very low latency then UA is a good choice.
IF a more powerful computer is your concern note that UA is launching WIN 10 thunderbolt support Nov. 2, so true cross platform and fastest speed. PT Xpert has a short story about it. In terms of total cost, remember that if you buy a new Apollo you get a plug in registration deal which allows you to buy plug ins at essentially 60% off.
I would think buying another interface only will be the less expensive option but that depends on whether the new avid interface does everything you want. If you are considering UA, you are buying into a system not just an interface.
I have been running Apollo tbolt quad with an octo card for 3 years and my system has been bullet proof. You can buy new Apollo quads for like 2 grand if you shop around and people sell new tbolt satellites for around a grand regularly too. There is one for sale now at UA forum.
With UA's launch coming Nov 2 it will be interesting to see what is in its new OS update.
WIN 10 info from PT Xpert release:
The Windows version will support UAD Thunderbolt devices when using Windows 10 on computers that have native Thunderbolt 3 support via a USB Type-C connector (Skylake processor or newer). 32-bit UAD ASIO Thunderbolt drivers and 32-bit DAWs will not be supported for UAD Thunderbolt on Windows 10.
Thunderbolt-equipped Apollo Twin, Apollo 8 (DUO and QUAD), Apollo 8p, Apollo 16, and Apollo FireWire audio interfaces, as well as UAD-2 Satellite Thunderbolt devices will all be able to be connected to Windows 10 computers as long as they have a Thunderbolt 3 connection. (A qualified Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt adapter will be required)
Exclusive Peak Into What Will be In UAD Software v9.0
With the great news of the upcoming Windows 10 and Thunderbolt 3 support, UAD have not forgotten about users who have Firewire connected interfaces. As part of the upcoming UAD v9.0 Software release, UAD have updated the Console app to v2.0. Console 2 will give Apollo FireWire users a host of new features, including drag-and-drop plug-in arranging and custom channel strip settings designed by top producers and engineers.
● High resolution resizable software interface for all Apollo models (not just Firewire)
● Channel Strip presets lets users see, save, and recall UAD plug-in chains
● New UAD plug-in categories and individual Show/Hide functionality
● Enhanced plug-in features such as preset auditioning and drag & drop functionality
● Per-input Record/Monitor effect switching
● Multi-level Undo and Redo for plug-in assignments and parameters |
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Post by kilroyrock on Oct 27, 2016 6:07:03 GMT -6
Make sure your computer is optimized for pro tools. There's a list you can find "how to optimize your windows computer for pro tools".. it involves turning off a lot of the stupid shit that makes simple people think they're cool, like whisping boxes that zip around when you open and close them, smooth out your fonts, and let you unplug usb drives quickly without worrying about what you're gonna do to the usb thingy. If you're still unhappy... I know that big box computers look great and are easy to buy, but you're paying a premium for mediocre specs on a computer. It's what apple users have been doing for decades. If you're using a lot of VI's, you need a lot of ram. I don't recommend any computer, especially audio/video with less than 16GB. hard drives are important, but if you have 2, one for your computer one for your audio, you're good. That harddrive in the gateway can be removed and put in another machine. If you don't know how to do it, your buddy Steve does. If you don't have a buddy named Steve, your buddy Mike can help you. Your keyboard and mouse work on any machine.. The things that matter with computers is the CPU (# of cores/speed of each core), RAM, harddrive, motherboard. I recommend an intel processor, I7 minimum quad, however a hexcore with hyperthreading will do you great. you can get 12 cores out of that. What does that mean? It means that octocore UAD card has 8 cores. It means your computer runs on 1, and you have literally 11 cores to process audio. Again, 16gigs minimum. If you're okay with spending a premium, buy the sweetwater creation station - www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CS450v5 it's good, but you're paying for it. I built a hexcore(12 cores with HT!) I7 3.3ghz on an X99 motherboard with 16gigs for 800 bucks including a damn good video card, putting the components in a case I already had. You have a case, powersupply, keyboard, mouse, harddrives. Why buy them again? If you REALLY want to buy a case, 50 bucks. newegg.com is your friend. Plus, you can now play all the latest video games if you ever have time to do it. Mass effect looks great in "amazing computer graphics" land. www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?item=N82E16813128772www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117402www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148866www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814487024I know you've got a buddy who can build a computer, if you can't do it yourself. If you've ever built ikea furniture, you can build a computer. There is no voltage in this thing as soon as you turn off the power supply. The worst part about building a computer is the sheet metal knuckle cuts. But you're on this forum, so I know you got guff. |
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Post by kilroyrock on Oct 27, 2016 6:10:53 GMT -6
Thunderbolt-equipped Apollo Twin, Apollo 8 (DUO and QUAD), Apollo 8p, Apollo 16, and Apollo FireWire audio interfaces, as well as UAD-2 Satellite Thunderbolt devices will all be able to be connected to Windows 10 computers as long as they have a Thunderbolt 3 connection. (A qualified Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt adapter will be required)
Thunderbolt 3. Thunderbolt 2 doesn't cut it?! |
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Post by swurveman on Oct 27, 2016 7:48:35 GMT -6
I'd invest in a computer before a plug in platform. In my case, my UAD Quad plugins crap out before my Waves plugins do. So, I don't see any performance advantage with UAD and I don't think they sound better either.
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Post by viciousbliss on Oct 27, 2016 9:19:56 GMT -6
These used HP workstations can be had for as little as $300 a lot of the time, so it's definitely a lot cheaper. I was only looking at UAD to save on cpu, on the chance that there's some truth to the idea that a lot of plug-ins are so cpu heavy that separate dsp is absolutely necessary. I don't have anything with Thunderbolt. There's a lot of reasons I work at 88, based on the discussion I've had with people like Andy from Cytomic on the gearslutz ultimate plug-in analysis thread. Yeah, I had seen the Pro Tools optimizations and stuff. I'd like to make Izotope Neutron a part of my workflow, but when I've tried it, it's extremely cpu heavy like a lot of people are saying. The few times I tried it, just leaving it on in default mode while setting up the masking made a big difference(just telling the current instance what other instance to unmask, nothing else). Thanks for the replies.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2016 9:23:21 GMT -6
Yeah - it doesn't feel like a sexy buy, but having a computer that doesn't slow you down is worth its weight in gold.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2016 9:25:27 GMT -6
Actually, having said that, I think I understand your question a little better now. I usually use 80-100% of my available dsp on the UAD, so maybe that's why I have a computer that "just works." Maybe I'd be maxing it out if I didn't use the UAD.
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Post by popmann on Oct 27, 2016 10:13:08 GMT -6
I would never buy a UAD to save computing time. That's absurd. intel DSP costs some tiny fraction of their Sharc chips.
You buy UAD because:
a) you personally think they sound better than native equivalents
b) you love the Apollo/old TDM workflow of being able to have your emulation plug ins available in the hardware cue mixer.
Those are the reasons to do it. Not to help an aging CPU. it's not really THAT much help. Raise your buffer to 1024 or 2048. THAT will help an aging CPU.
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Post by mulmany on Oct 27, 2016 11:04:05 GMT -6
I had a z800 for a while. It was a beast of a machine. It's a little behind the times though. I would look for a z820, they made a tbolt add on card for the mother board.
If you were running HDX I would say z800 all day long.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 27, 2016 11:23:07 GMT -6
Thunderbolt-equipped Apollo Twin, Apollo 8 (DUO and QUAD), Apollo 8p, Apollo 16, and Apollo FireWire audio interfaces, as well as UAD-2 Satellite Thunderbolt devices will all be able to be connected to Windows 10 computers as long as they have a Thunderbolt 3 connection. (A qualified Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt adapter will be required)
Thunderbolt 3. Thunderbolt 2 doesn't cut it?! The info so far says tbotl 3 but that there may be backwards compatibility: its to be formally announced Nov 2.
re: comment above about a quad crapping out , any chip set craps out if you push too much demand on it, you just need an octo card ?
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 27, 2016 11:29:19 GMT -6
These used HP workstations can be had for as little as $300 a lot of the time, so it's definitely a lot cheaper. I was only looking at UAD to save on cpu, on the chance that there's some truth to the idea that a lot of plug-ins are so cpu heavy that separate dsp is absolutely necessary. I don't have anything with Thunderbolt. There's a lot of reasons I work at 88, based on the discussion I've had with people like Andy from Cytomic on the gearslutz ultimate plug-in analysis thread. Yeah, I had seen the Pro Tools optimizations and stuff. I'd like to make Izotope Neutron a part of my workflow, but when I've tried it, it's extremely cpu heavy like a lot of people are saying. The few times I tried it, just leaving it on in default mode while setting up the masking made a big difference(just telling the current instance what other instance to unmask, nothing else). Thanks for the replies. UA dsp only runs ua plug it would not help you at all with other plugs. Essentially if one goes UA you are getting a hybrid system with some things running natively and the ua stuff running on the ua chips. So, you would be picking up more processing power for the UA plugs and redistributing some of your plug load onto UA plugs and chips sparring your current computer.
As others have pointed out it makes more sense to just upgrade the computer if you just want to run non UA plugs ? If you want UA plugs, you need to get some UA dsp chips: (card, satellite or interface) period.
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Post by viciousbliss on Oct 27, 2016 17:44:14 GMT -6
I already use a ton of analog emulations, so UAD makes a lot of sense for me if I wanted to spend the cash. The 224, AMS, 910, 1176, 2A, tape machines, I'd end up running a majority of UA plugs most likely. Cheapest Z820 I'm looking at so far is $650 on ebay. Needs a second processor though. For my needs, I think I only need about 25% more computing power than I have. Unless I want to load 50 Satins for a 50 track session or something. What boggles my mind is how it ends up that audio plug-ins need a better computer than compressing a 40 gig blu ray with x264 in bdrebuilder does.
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Post by Guitar on Oct 27, 2016 18:22:34 GMT -6
I'm committed to UAD so I am excitedly waiting for November 2 as a Windows guy. I also have one old, and one new, computer which makes it interesting.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2016 14:17:29 GMT -6
There is no voltage in this thing as soon as you turn off the power supply. This is actually not true. If you want to be sure you have no voltages that might damage a sensitive chip in an unfortunate situation when working inside the case, you might turn off the power supply, remove the power cable from the IEC, and press the "regular" "on" button of the computer (mainboard, not psu) and wait half a minute. Some loads might eat up the voltage still stored in capacitors, believe me or not. This is IME also the best and sometimes only way to really reset mainboard, stubborn cards, crummy bios or efi states, SSD and conventional harddrive firmwares. Sure, there is a buffer battery for the CMOS. But just removing this one does not reset everything. I had several hardware situations, where only the full power cycle as described could "magically" resolve locked states. An example was an SSD with a crummy firmware that was locked up in a state where the hd was not even recognized by bioses and efis. (Which is pretty annoying if it is the system drive, which it was of course. The owner was already sure he had to buy a new SSD and lost his system, while everything went back to normal after above steps. A firmware update was available for the drive where this erroneous behavior was cured permanently...) |
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