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Post by robschnapf on Oct 25, 2016 13:56:51 GMT -6
So I have one of these and I wanna change the attacks and release times. i have no schematics or manual. anybody know how to do this? thanks rob
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Post by chasmanian on Oct 25, 2016 15:43:48 GMT -6
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Post by jsteiger on Oct 25, 2016 22:40:39 GMT -6
My first go to would be EmRR
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Post by EmRR on Oct 26, 2016 1:29:29 GMT -6
Lots of guys can help with that. 1st ? is does it have the factory dual timing mod or not, is the timing stock, and then what do you think you want it to do? There's a manual online somewhere.
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Post by robschnapf on Oct 27, 2016 5:42:58 GMT -6
Don't know about the factory timing mod. It has been restored but not modded. I want slower the attack and faster release
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 27, 2016 17:48:30 GMT -6
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Post by EmRR on Oct 28, 2016 15:32:23 GMT -6
I should add an 86 with the official mod shouldn't act terribly different from a BA-6, on paper. If you like the BA-6 thing you probably don't want to change an 86. I don't have memory of people modding BA-6's for different timing, though I wouldn't argue against it so long as the 'famous' stock thing is still accessible. The factory dual timing mod is what became stock in the BA-6, and somewhat copied in all AGC's like Stalevel/Unilevel/etc, though those have comp type slow attack constants.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 29, 2016 12:44:27 GMT -6
Oh yeah....
No such thing as a BA-86A. It's just 86-A. 'BA' is a post-war designation, 80 series amps date to 1937. Rest of 80 series (budget line) was discontinued and replaced at end of war, 86 soldiered on until 1949-50 until BA-6 refinement replaced it. There are 86-A/B/C variations, so an 'A' would be pre-war and easily not have the dual timing mod, whereas a 'C' may have come with it. 86 is a budget version of the Deluxe line 96-A which has an outboard regulated PSU along with a John Vassos Art Deco design which is slathered in chrome.
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Post by Randge on Oct 30, 2016 7:25:02 GMT -6
I have left my 86A stock with the exception to making a knob (inside, up front) to balance the 6sk7. Your not liking the attack and release of it may very well stem from the tubes being out of balance. This one drifts a lot and has to be balanced every time I use it so I know its working correctly. This one here is also a phenomenal sounding piece of gear. I rarely hit it hard as that's not what it was designed to do. I love it's warmth and color when it's doing it's thing with just a few DB's of compression.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 30, 2016 9:43:11 GMT -6
Good point Randge, an additional tube balance control was another factory mod that became stock along the way.
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Post by EmRR on Nov 8, 2016 11:01:04 GMT -6
Stock 86-A would be 1mS attack time and release described as 2 sec for 90% recovery after signal drops below threshold. If you want much slower attack, it would require insertion of series resistance between the center tap of the side chain transformer and the junction of c-8/r-41. Don't be an asshole and drill weird non-reversable holes in old gear just to add 'features' that may not be appreciated in the future.
The design parameter is described with the intent that occasional gain reduction amounts of 3-4dB are normal operation, even though much greater reduction can occur.
The Limited Level control is in effect a threshold control which has some effect on ratio.
The dynamic balance and associated meter position is a balance check for the gain reduction tubes, the later version mod found in 86-B and C moves the hum control and adds an adjustable balance.
The dual time constant could be taken along the lines of the Stalevel or BA-6 schematic as example. You can get much greater sustained GR with the dual time constant, since the slower constant takes over on sustained peaks.
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Post by robschnapf on Apr 30, 2021 18:49:09 GMT -6
So I finally got this thing dialed in and it really was a matter finding two tubes that matched and passed the mustard in the unit. It took a lot of tubes to find good ones. Anyways this thing rocks stock as is. Amazing what it does to acoustics and drums rooms. It has yet to meet a transient it couldn’t put into submission. And do it with class and weight.... And also yes I’m responding 5 years later....
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Post by Mister Chase on Apr 30, 2021 19:08:14 GMT -6
So I finally got this thing dialed in and it really was a matter finding two tubes that matched and passed the mustard in the unit. It took a lot of tubes to find good ones. Anyways this thing rocks stock as is. Amazing what it does to acoustics and drums rooms. It has yet to meet a transient it couldn’t put into submission. And do it with class and weight.... And also yes I’m responding 5 years later.... Hey that's great, man! Good to hear it's being put to good use. 5 years isn't too bad for a great comp.
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Post by EmRR on May 1, 2021 7:25:07 GMT -6
So I finally got this thing dialed in and it really was a matter finding two tubes that matched and passed the mustard in the unit. It took a lot of tubes to find good ones. Anyways this thing rocks stock as is. Amazing what it does to acoustics and drums rooms. It has yet to meet a transient it couldn’t put into submission. And do it with class and weight.... And also yes I’m responding 5 years later.... Since then I’ve converted one from original timing to the updated dual timing that’s more like a BA-6. VERY different, you wouldn’t consider them the same unit. Original is more pumpy like an SA-39, update is more of an AGC with far less obvious effect. Both sound good. There are some odd aspects to the way timing is implemented, and modifying is not as straightforward as with many limiters.
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Post by robschnapf on May 1, 2021 8:33:59 GMT -6
Very interesting. So are you saying it’s not as straightforward as changing the value of R41 Or that changing that value has multiple effects by how it all interacts?
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Post by Ward on May 1, 2021 9:35:30 GMT -6
So I finally got this thing dialed in and it really was a matter finding two tubes that matched and passed the mustard in the unit. It took a lot of tubes to find good ones. Anyways this thing rocks stock as is. Amazing what it does to acoustics and drums rooms. It has yet to meet a transient it couldn’t put into submission. And do it with class and weight.... And also yes I’m responding 5 years later.... Was Group DIY any help? groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=22681.0 There are a lot of schematics for it online as well, but could never find a technical manual.
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Post by EmRR on May 1, 2021 10:45:40 GMT -6
Very interesting. So are you saying it’s not as straightforward as changing the value of R41 Or that changing that value has multiple effects by how it all interacts? Ah, so you have version #1 then. You can change it some, but it's tied to bias and the meter zero blows up immediately. You have to parallel something to ground, which means many times higher Meg value. I detailed it in a GroupDIY post. There's an official RCA mod document for the dual timing like the BA-6, but no 86 schematic that shows it. You could put both timing methods in probably but likely have to drill some holes for a switch. Boo.
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Post by robschnapf on May 1, 2021 12:05:57 GMT -6
Right, well I’m not a gear purest or bothered by drilling if it adds more function. However, in this case, I’m not really interested in doing that. The 86A works great and I love what it’s doing finally. And it is beautiful on the eyes. This with the Gates SA39 are so complimentary to one another...
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Post by EmRR on May 1, 2021 14:30:37 GMT -6
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Post by robschnapf on May 1, 2021 15:01:17 GMT -6
That’s great thanks
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Post by Ward on May 3, 2021 6:05:15 GMT -6
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