|
Post by jin167 on Oct 24, 2016 11:01:32 GMT -6
Not even sure if this question is valid. From what I've seen any outboard gear that has a word 'mastering' put onto it costs at least $5,000 for some reason.
Anywho.. I've thought about several options but before confirming I thought I might ask around and see if working professionals could throw in a few suggestions as I don't trust my opinions too much when it comes to choosing gears.
I will be using it mostly for jazz and classic but occasionally need to deal with poppish indish rockish edmish sort of music. I do own quite a few outboard compressors but they are all either too colored or mono.
I have about $3,500 to spare and I don't really mind a second-hand unit so.. if you feel like chiming in please do so and enlighten me with your knowledge.
oh.. btw I was thinking about chandler limited zener, MBP, dave hill titans, and maselec mla-2. Probably wrong or dumb choice.
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 24, 2016 11:10:38 GMT -6
I liked using the Millennia compressor, which should work for your budget.
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Oct 24, 2016 11:18:25 GMT -6
Manley Vari-Mu. Arguably the most used mastering compressor of all time. Recently, I bought one and am surprised about how much I use it to track and mix with as well. But for mastering, that and a silver bullet takes care of most of my "transient" issues. It's beautifully creamy vibe is an addition, and it just sounds "like a record".....polished. Wish I had two...
PS - I should add that for mastering, I do put a brick wall limiter after the manley and everything else in the chain to insure my peaks don't get to 0dbFS.
|
|
|
Post by mulmany on Oct 24, 2016 13:33:25 GMT -6
Fcs, Foote control systems, he makes a few different versions. There was one for sale at the other site
|
|
|
Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 24, 2016 16:03:33 GMT -6
Fcs, Foote control systems, he makes a few different versions. There was one for sale at the other site Took the words right out of my mouth. I could not recommend something higher than the Foote p3s class a mastering version comp or the p3s regular version with recall would probably suffice if budget was more of an issue.. Also makes a P4s comp version will link his products www.ebay.com/itm/like/222280806172?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F711-117182-37290-0%252F2%253Fmtid%253D1588%2526kwid%253D1%2526crlp%253D145811628850_324272%2526itemid%253D222280806172%2526targetid%253D260507259242%2526rpc%253D0.11%2526rpc_upld_id%253D86441%2526device%253Dm%2526mpre%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fulk%25252Fitm%25252Flike%25252F222280806172%25253Flpid%25253D82%252526chn%25253Dps%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9010790%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D672333334%2526adgroupid%253D37869816647%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-260507259242%2526gclid%253DCPfzjayu9M8CFdgBgQodck0PPA%2526srcrot%253D711-117182-37290-0%2526rvr_id%253D1114123037169&ul_noapp=truewww.ebay.com/itm/like/331769681651?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F711-117182-37290-0%252F2%253Fmtid%253D1588%2526kwid%253D1%2526crlp%253D53601919689_324272%2526itemid%253D331769681651%2526targetid%253D186358913289%2526rpc%253D0.11%2526rpc_upld_id%253D86365%2526device%253Dm%2526mpre%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.com%25252Fulk%25252Fitm%25252Flike%25252F331769681651%25253Flpid%25253D82%252526chn%25253Dps%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9010790%2526poi%253D9010794%2526campaignid%253D239125209%2526adgroupid%253D14978428809%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-186358913289%2526gclid%253DCJKr7dWu9M8CFZE8gQodGGULTw%2526srcrot%253D711-117182-37290-0%2526rvr_id%253D1114063982081&ul_noapp=truem.ebay.com/itm/272424117090?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20150313114020&meid=bd76d3b875da4e5f9b8bd8348420bae2&pid=100338&rk=2&rkt=15&sd=331769681651&_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_mwBanner=1Foote P4 Plus ( attaching more info about each comp below ) reverb.com/item/3129119-foote-control-systems-p4s-plus-stereo-buss-compressor?_aid=pla&pla=1&gclid=CL-zv5Kz9M8CFUIkgQodPnYGHAInfo on FCS comps: >P3S Class A Bus Compressor is the standard P3S Bus Compressor that features a switchable Class A output stage that uses FCS custom discrete op amps and Cinemag transformers. Black anodized panel with black Elma wing knobs. Ranges: -30dB to +15 dB threshold, 8:1 maximum ratio, 20dB maximum makeup gain and 10dB GR metering. (MAP $2250) >P3S ME Class A Mastering Compressor is the mastering version of the P3S with Elma switches on Threshold, Ratio and Gain and features a switchable Class A output stage that uses FCS custom discrete Class A op amps and Cinemag transformer. Black anodized panel with black Elma wing knobs. Ranges: -8dB to +15 dB threshold, 4:1 maximum ratio, 11.5dB maximum makeup gain and 5dB GR metering. (MAP $3250) >P4S Plus Bus Compressor is built with 4 VCAs per channel, high quality potentiometers, NKK LED illuminated pushbutton switches, FCS custom discrete Class A op amps in the 2520 footprint and FCS steel core transformers. Black powder coat panel with black Elma wing knobs. Ranges: -30dB to +15 dB threshold, 8:1 maximum ratio, 23dB maximum makeup gain and 10dB GR metering. (MAP $3995) >P4S ME Mastering Compressor, Elma switches on all controls except HPF which is Grayhill mil spec. It is built with 4 VCAs per channel, Elma 24 step switches, NKK LED illuminated pushbutton switches, FCS custom discrete Class A op amps in the 2520 footprint and Cinemag transformers. Silver gray powder coat panel with black Elma wing knobs. >P4S SE Bus Compressor is the same basic build of the mastering version, Elma switches on all controls except HPF which is Grayhill mil spec. It is built with 4 VCAs per channel, Elma 24 step switches, NKK LED illuminated pushbutton switches, FCS custom discrete Class A op amps and custom made FCS 2736 and 2737 transformers. Silver gray powder coat panel with black Elma wing knobs Ranges: -30dB to +15 dB threshold, 8:1 maximum ratio, 11.5dB maximum makeup gain and 10dB GR metering. (MAP $4750) Last but not least :The FCS p3ex is the most affordable &($1350) aggressive sounding comp according to Roger. Great tone and color, a real flexible comp. Buy it Now it's $950 shipped to you, normal price is $1400... This link has audio files and descriptions en.zicos.com/proaudio/i30187407-New-Foote-P3EX-Stereo-Bus-Compressor.htmlSome other gems I thought of: Gml comp for Shits and Giggles ( gml comps are RMS based side chain compression, I don't know if this is the flagship mastering version) m.ebay.com/itm/GML-Series-II-Compressor-/291918846485?_trkparms=aid%253D222007%2526algo%253DSIC.MBE%2526ao%253D1%2526asc%253D20150519202348%2526meid%253D9d357e1993f8406f818e5e8078d2c35b%2526pid%253D100408%2526rk%253D11%2526rkt%253D25%2526sd%253D330997372419&_trksid=p2056116.c100408.m2460 New SSL Xlogic G comp for great price IMO $2990. m.ebay.com/itm/112170166653?_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20150313114020&meid=d99b2c6571f44126b942a01b83ed46cd&pid=100338&rk=10&rkt=15&sd=331769681651&_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_mwBanner=1Can't forget the Manley Vari mu for that syrupy cream sheen and gelling character. reverb.com/p/manley-labs-variable-mu-stereo-tube-compressor-limiter?_aid=pla&hfid=3208570&gclid=CIPNkZi29M8CFRY2gQodmYoDhg the Foote comps are like Swiss army knives when it comes to mixbus or mastering compression, plus they sound amazing Handbuilt with love in California, USA:)
|
|
|
Post by timcampbell on Oct 24, 2016 16:24:05 GMT -6
The Gyraf G10. Vintage King has one for 3000 dollars. It kills the Vari-Mu and sounds more like a Fairchild 670.
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Oct 24, 2016 17:20:52 GMT -6
What are the important things that differentiate a Mastering Compressor from a Mix Bus Compressor?
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Oct 24, 2016 20:04:47 GMT -6
What are the important things that differentiate a Mastering Compressor from a Mix Bus Compressor? detented pots, sometimes smaller increments .... theres two price theres 3... 8) cheers Wiz
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2016 20:36:20 GMT -6
Would take a look at Regular John Recordings SSL compressor, it's a little more neutral than the original and he could make it so that it's completely stepped throughout.
|
|
|
Post by jin167 on Oct 24, 2016 23:13:21 GMT -6
Wow... so many options to choose from. Thank you everyone. It was a good idea to ask for professionals opinion. I don't know why i didn't consider classics like manley and millenia. Gyraf and rjr sounds interesting as well. Regarding the FCS p3s I've heard that there is an issue with the output transformer? Apparently you cant raise the output level above 20dbu because of the thd spec of the transformer or something.. i guess you can disengage the transformer but then whats the point of having it in there in the first place hmm...
|
|
|
Post by timcampbell on Oct 25, 2016 1:33:44 GMT -6
Gyraf even makes an M/S version of the G10 called the G22. It allows you to change the stereo field while at the same time compressing.
|
|
|
Post by reddirt on Oct 25, 2016 5:01:57 GMT -6
Buzz audio?
Cheers, Ross
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Oct 25, 2016 7:51:09 GMT -6
What are the important things that differentiate a Mastering Compressor from a Mix Bus Compressor? detented pots, sometimes smaller increments .... theres two price theres 3... 8) cheers Wiz I took a look at Bernie Grundman and Capitol's equipment. Lots of customized gear. I am amazed at how loud they're making masters when I a/b them against my masters. I wonder how much converter clipping is going on.
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Oct 25, 2016 8:11:12 GMT -6
Gyraf even makes an M/S version of the G10 called the G22. It allows you to change the stereo field while at the same time compressing. The only people I've heard rave about the Gyraf equipment are people who actually used the stuff.
|
|
|
Post by jin167 on Oct 26, 2016 1:57:41 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by thehightenor on Oct 26, 2016 14:22:29 GMT -6
Before spending a fortune on a hardware mastering compressor to add colour or lack of it depending on the model.
I'd look at adding the colour/or no colour with a hardware stereo mixbus compressor at the mixing stage, getting your mixes to sound exactly how you want them to sound at that stage, then using a clean possibly digital compressor at the mastering to add the final layer of dynamic control.
I made this change a few years ago and switched to mixing into a hardware compressor really getting the vibe I wanted and then I use the Sonoris Mastering Compressor (a relatively expensive plugin) at the mastering stage. The Sonoris is very clean and very good at controlling dynamics yet preserving transients, actually the Sonoris Mastering Compressor plugin is great for Jazz and Classical, I highly recommend you demo it, it can hold it's head up against expensive hardware with ease.
Working this way around I have found my results more constant.
|
|
|
Post by ChaseUTB on Oct 27, 2016 14:05:28 GMT -6
detented pots, sometimes smaller increments .... theres two price theres 3... 8) cheers Wiz I took a look at Bernie Grundman and Capitol's equipment. Lots of customized gear. I am amazed at how loud they're making masters when I a/b them against my masters. I wonder how much converter clipping is going on. He's probably using a lot of the analog equipment to scope the sound that he wants and trade the transients for the groove and RMS. Yes some good level can be gained, but truth in point you can only clip so many db's until it's a negative result. Without knowing, IMO, he is probably getting a lot of RMS level from the analog chain, then all the extra loudness volume and smash probably comes in the box or maybe from like the Weiss digital HW limiters.. Brain Lucey talks about shaving peaks by clipping ADC, but level ( think RMS) comes from the analog chain... But again the mastering houses having purpose built room and monitors enables them to hear exactly what the clipping does and how it affects what they are doing to the record. Plus not all converters are built the same to handle clipping in a pleasing manner...Put a noob behind Grundman's gear and see how the results are
|
|
gyraf
New Member
Posts: 11
|
Post by gyraf on Oct 28, 2016 5:49:02 GMT -6
The only people I've heard rave about the Gyraf equipment are people who actually used the stuff. There's a good one...! Jakob E.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Oct 28, 2016 5:59:31 GMT -6
detented pots, sometimes smaller increments .... theres two price theres 3... 8) cheers Wiz I took a look at Bernie Grundman and Capitol's equipment. Lots of customized gear. I am amazed at how loud they're making masters when I a/b them against my masters. I wonder how much converter clipping is going on. Once I found transient shaving with a good A/D.. The rest is history. I use it for everything now, but there is definitely a sweet spot for every converter that needs to be found. Some of the lower end ones can't do it at all though. I can usually get about 5-6 more dB from the mix doing this. You do have to beware that it will change the mix slightly and things will come forward in the mix and the balance will change somewhat. You can also use it to gauge the low end. If you can't get the mix up into the single digits without the farting sound too much clipping makes, then usually you have too much low end, or there is some kind of tone that is prevalent but can't be clearly heard.
|
|
|
Post by sean on Oct 28, 2016 8:04:24 GMT -6
Definitely interested in the G10 and G22 now, thanks for the mention. I wish there were some audio demos somewhere. Elysia makes great ones, but AML has some really good ones as well.
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Oct 28, 2016 8:06:21 GMT -6
I took a look at Bernie Grundman and Capitol's equipment. Lots of customized gear. I am amazed at how loud they're making masters when I a/b them against my masters. I wonder how much converter clipping is going on. Once I found transient shaving with a good A/D.. The rest is history. I use it for everything now, but there is definitely a sweet spot for every converter that needs to be found. Some of the lower end ones can't do it at all though. I can usually get about 5-6 more dB from the mix doing this. You do have to beware that it will change the mix slightly and things will come forward in the mix and the balance will change somewhat. You can also use it to gauge the low end. If you can't get the mix up into the single digits without the farting sound too much clipping makes, then usually you have too much low end, or there is some kind of tone that is prevalent but can't be clearly heard. Thanks for the post svart. Do you clip the converter (I presume that's what you meant by transient shave) instead of using a limiter, or use both?
|
|
|
Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 28, 2016 8:38:41 GMT -6
I took a look at Bernie Grundman and Capitol's equipment. Lots of customized gear. I am amazed at how loud they're making masters when I a/b them against my masters. I wonder how much converter clipping is going on. Once I found transient shaving with a good A/D.. The rest is history. I use it for everything now, but there is definitely a sweet spot for every converter that needs to be found. Some of the lower end ones can't do it at all though. I can usually get about 5-6 more dB from the mix doing this. You do have to beware that it will change the mix slightly and things will come forward in the mix and the balance will change somewhat. You can also use it to gauge the low end. If you can't get the mix up into the single digits without the farting sound too much clipping makes, then usually you have too much low end, or there is some kind of tone that is prevalent but can't be clearly heard. Does your Svartbox shave the transients? How do you achieve this? If you run too hot into the converter, won't it just be clipping in the DAW?
|
|
|
Post by timcampbell on Oct 28, 2016 11:14:16 GMT -6
Sorry to jump in about Gyraf stuff again but if you are just trying to get louder files with less artifacts I don't know of anything that does it as well as the G21 but it's not a compressor.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Oct 28, 2016 11:21:43 GMT -6
Once I found transient shaving with a good A/D.. The rest is history. I use it for everything now, but there is definitely a sweet spot for every converter that needs to be found. Some of the lower end ones can't do it at all though. I can usually get about 5-6 more dB from the mix doing this. You do have to beware that it will change the mix slightly and things will come forward in the mix and the balance will change somewhat. You can also use it to gauge the low end. If you can't get the mix up into the single digits without the farting sound too much clipping makes, then usually you have too much low end, or there is some kind of tone that is prevalent but can't be clearly heard. Thanks for the post svart. Do you clip the converter (I presume that's what you meant by transient shave) instead of using a limiter, or use both? Yes, it's clipping, but it's mostly the front end components that round the transient, not the A/D chip itself. Some older/cheaper opamps will "fold" and reverse the transient and create nasty distortion, but most modern opamps are designed to gracefully resist the folding. I don't use a limiter, per se, but I do always use bus compression to help control the overall envelope of the signal before going to the A/D.
|
|
|
Post by svart on Oct 28, 2016 11:25:00 GMT -6
Once I found transient shaving with a good A/D.. The rest is history. I use it for everything now, but there is definitely a sweet spot for every converter that needs to be found. Some of the lower end ones can't do it at all though. I can usually get about 5-6 more dB from the mix doing this. You do have to beware that it will change the mix slightly and things will come forward in the mix and the balance will change somewhat. You can also use it to gauge the low end. If you can't get the mix up into the single digits without the farting sound too much clipping makes, then usually you have too much low end, or there is some kind of tone that is prevalent but can't be clearly heard. Does your Svartbox shave the transients? How do you achieve this? If you run too hot into the converter, won't it just be clipping in the DAW? Yes, that's what I use exclusively now. It's as simple as pushing the level into the converter until I hear digital clipping, then backing off a few dB. In the DAW it ends up looking like all the remaining transients are the same level, rather than having some poking out more. It's more art than science I guess. You just have to listen to what you're doing and be careful. It's pretty much the same as the guys in the 80's and 90's pushing hard to tape or the guys who figured out they could push the early Apogee converters to get more level.
|
|