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Post by M57 on Oct 17, 2016 5:26:40 GMT -6
I'm looking maximize the use of the few pieces of outboard gear I own (and justify some additional purchases of same). Up until now I've only been using the gear in my recording chain. Once ITB, it stays there. It's a little time consuming, but recently I've started to experiment with bouncing individual tracks and printing a WA-2A on them. I'm wondering if anyone else is doing this (using the same individual piece for most of their tracks), and if there are any tricks or pitfalls I should be aware of. It's a bit time consuming, but once printed I don't have to worry about recall (kind of) and of course, I still have the original track. Yes, I'm using the (relatively inexpensive D/AA/D converters in my interface, but cumulatively no more than anyone else who would send multiple tracks out to a board bring and back in all at once, right? I just do personal projects in my home studio so time efficiency is not so much an issue (though hassle might be). If this turns out to be a good way for me to work, it would justify a few more purchases, like a stereo compressor for some of the busses and an EQ or two. On my budget it's starting to look like I may have to get into some 500 series stuff.
A couple of related questions:
Any thoughts on doubling up on the same piece of gear? I.e., if I use a WA-2A on a vocal on the way in, does it not make sense to use it again (say post EQ and De-essing)?
This could be a separate thread, but if I do decide to purchase some outboard, what types (not brands or models) of gear are going to make the most difference. Specifically, and this may fall into the dumb question category: Might OTB tube-driven gear be noticably different than ITB emulations, whereas OTB solid state will be only marginally different than ITB? I don't want to get into the ITB/OTB debate. I realize that people can do great things with either, I just want get a handle on making the most of my purchases moving forward.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 6:20:04 GMT -6
Pretty much where I'm headed at the moment. I've got a lot of plug-ins but really want to try the outboard challenge  First on my list was an Audient iD 22 - this allows you to route signals out then bring them back bypassing the mic pre's. The converters and mic pre's are top notch, and you get a software mixer to simplify routing. This has allowed me for the first time to incorporate some of my outboard gear during mixing which I'm looking forward to experimenting with. Another purchase which I'm trying to get my head round is a S/H DBX Quantum. A bit of a dinosaur, but a real swiss army knife allowing tracking, mixing and mastering (or in my case more like finalizing) with a good EQ and multi band / broadband compressor / limiter and some clever features such as upward compression.A bit fiddly to use tho'. I do have a tube driven channel strip so can use it to "warm" a signal on the way in, but for mixing on stereo busses is a PITA as have to split L&R signals and process seperately (thankfully I use Reaper so not too big a deal). I'm thinking about a stereo valve compressor, plus a really nice valve eq, but not sure what are the best tools on a budget, so will watch with interest as other ideas may come to light. Will be going the good quality S/H route for my stuff as can't really justify buying new gear. |
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Post by tasteliketape on Oct 17, 2016 7:02:02 GMT -6
There 's a million ways to do this , but if I had the cash it would be a silver bullet . On more of a budget it would be 2 capi. VP 28 or two neve type clones pre's . But again there all kinds of ways to get there.
Edit : if you track thru the vp28' s you probably won't have the need to reamp tracks , just slap them on the 2 buss . Also that is what the silver bullet was designed to do .
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Oct 17, 2016 7:18:45 GMT -6
Personnaly I have a Stam SA-2A that I use all the time on vocals, and the rest gets processed by Nebula plugins. They are now so close to hw that my money went in a very powerful computer, these plugins, and the best recording frontend I could afford.
For your other questions, your ears are the only answer. Use your Wa-2A as many times as you want on each track where you think it works. If the results are better than the source, why not ?
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Post by M57 on Oct 17, 2016 7:51:23 GMT -6
There 's a million ways to do this , but if I had the cash it would be a silver bullet . On more of a budget it would be 2 capi. VP 28 or two neve type clones pre's . But again there all kinds of ways to get there. Edit : if you track thru the vp28' s you probably won't have the need to reamp tracks , just slap them on the 2 buss . Also that is what the silver bullet was designed to do . I do a lot of tracking through a pair of Dizengoff D4's, and though I'd like to pick up a Neve style pre to complement those, (and the Silver Bullet is an amazing piece that I would love to have), I feel like I'd be gettng more bang for my buck by getting an actual processing device, like a stereo compressor, or a pair of EQP-WA's. Or perhaps, I'm going about it wrong, and should keep most processing ITB, and simply use something like a Silver Bullet to give it all an analog sheen. Something like the SB would pretty much demolish my budget. For that kind of money, I could pick up a 500 series box and fill 3 or 4 slots. I can always try using my D4's if I really want to dirty things up. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 17, 2016 8:08:56 GMT -6
As a former gear pimp, 500 series is a great economical way to start,
But your first investment ( the rack) isn't going to let you do anything.
The 500 format can't do everything so your still going to be looking at rack gear.
You are lucky to be doing this at this point in time, you have no idea how lucky you are to live in the age of CAPI, Warm and Stam for what I paid for my old Purple 76 and ADL 1000 used you can now have an 87 clone, Pultec clone, 1176 or LA2 clone and a usable API or Neve pre Clone!
The Silverbullet packs a tone of useable tone options in a single unit,
Hard to beat for the cash !
The best way to make your $$ is to learn to solder! So many decent kits and a CAPI rack is a great way to learn , though as a first timer I would consider having somebody else to build the PSU!
To your other question no problem using any comp on the way in and
During mix, though if you have the inputs I suggest splitting the signal at the pre out and have a safety dry track, nothing sucks more than getting the perfect performance and blowing it with processing!
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Post by Ward on Oct 17, 2016 9:13:37 GMT -6
As a former gear pimp, 500 series is a great economical way to start, But your first investment ( the rack) isn't going to let you do anything. The 500 format can't do everything so your still going to be looking at rack gear. You are lucky to be doing this at this point in time, you have no idea how lucky you are to live in the age of CAPI, Warm and Stam for what I paid for my old Purple 76 and ADL 1000 used you can now have an 87 clone, Pultec clone, 1176 or LA2 clone and a usable API or Neve pre Clone! SNIP... And don't forget the Mohog stuff either! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 17, 2016 9:27:28 GMT -6
As a former gear pimp, 500 series is a great economical way to start, But your first investment ( the rack) isn't going to let you do anything. The 500 format can't do everything so your still going to be looking at rack gear. You are lucky to be doing this at this point in time, you have no idea how lucky you are to live in the age of CAPI, Warm and Stam for what I paid for my old Purple 76 and ADL 1000 used you can now have an 87 clone, Pultec clone, 1176 or LA2 clone and a usable API or Neve pre Clone! SNIP... And don't forget the Mohog stuff either! True! |
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Post by schmalzy on Oct 17, 2016 9:40:33 GMT -6
A couple quick thoughts:
1) Two passes through on the same piece of gear (like a compressor)? I dig it. I don't have to commit so much to REALLY shaping the tone and painting myself into a corner if it all turns out to be a little too much. I know when I can start to hear a thing but also still be safe - that's where I want to be most of the time during tracking.
2) If you're bouncing an entire track out to outboard from beginning to end of the song and printing it back in, I like to place a metronome click or a tone pop a few seconds before the first note. That way, I can be 100% sure the bounced track lines up with the original.
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 17, 2016 12:48:33 GMT -6
I do decide to purchase some outboard, what types (not brands or models) of gear are going to make the most difference. Specifically, and this may fall into the dumb question category: Might OTB tube-driven gear be noticably different than ITB emulations, whereas OTB solid state will be only marginally different than ITB? I don't want to get into the ITB/OTB debate. I realize that people can do great things with either, I just want get a handle on making the most of my purchases moving forward. My OTB journey started with cheap gear which was hardwired to the interface. The first thing was the SPL Charisma II a two channel tube saturation unit. Great for base, kick drums, guitars and vocal. If you use it very subtle on a few tracks it can make a difference. |
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Post by drbill on Oct 17, 2016 13:02:25 GMT -6
I think your first thing should be a patch bay. I find that unless it's convenient, it's not going to get used. That's why my patch bay looks like 200 pieces of tangled spaghetti. But everything gets used and used more simply than a plugin. At least once it's patched in....  |
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Post by ericn on Oct 17, 2016 13:24:04 GMT -6
I think your first thing should be a patch bay. I find that unless it's convenient, it's not going to get used. That's why my patch bay looks like 200 pieces of tangled spaghetti. But everything gets used and used more simply than a plugin. At least once it's patched in.... Agreed and let me add a quality patchbay ! Money spent with MR Patchbay is money well spent |
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Post by M57 on Oct 17, 2016 13:33:51 GMT -6
I think your first thing should be a patch bay. I find that unless it's convenient, it's not going to get used. That's why my patch bay looks like 200 pieces of tangled spaghetti. But everything gets used and used more simply than a plugin. At least once it's patched in.... Agreed and let me add a quality patchbay ! Money spent with MR Patchbay is money well spent Is this adequate or is there a reason I need higher quality? As long as it's balanced all the way.. |
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Post by ericn on Oct 17, 2016 13:34:09 GMT -6
I want to add if your starting out don't just invest in a bay for what you
Think you need , bring every jack to the bay ! And Invest in a nice rack! If I were to start over I would buy 2 sets of rail, a hardwood top,
Get some steel strips cut to length for side braces and lacing cable ties and figure out an easy way of removing wood sides !
A well organized rack that is easy to change up is a god send !
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Oct 17, 2016 14:27:36 GMT -6
Honestly, without being endorsed or wanting to ramble on, give a try to the Acustica plugins. Since they are based on sampling from real gear, the mojo and tone are definitely there. This has been a game changer for me.
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Post by schmalzy on Oct 17, 2016 14:51:23 GMT -6
I want to add if your starting out don't just invest in a bay for what you Think you need , bring every jack to the bay ! And Invest in a nice rack! If I were to start over I would buy 2 sets of rail, a hardwood top, Get some steel strips cut to length for side braces and lacing cable ties and figure out an easy way of removing wood sides ! A well organized rack that is easy to change up is a god send ! All this stuff. I'm only a few inches deep in my career and my hardware usage but, man, patchbays are A MUST. When I had to wander around behind the interface and patch things in directly, I was hesitant to use the hardware I had. When I got the patchbay, it was easy and more easily-recallable so I was less hesitant to use any/all of it. ...and the easier the patchbays are to work with and change up in the rack, the better. ...and don't be a dummy: get/build a rack that's angled and is easy to work with so you don't have to bend down to see/use it. |
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Post by indiehouse on Oct 17, 2016 15:07:46 GMT -6
Agreed and let me add a quality patchbay ! Money spent with MR Patchbay is money well spent Is this adequate or is there a reason I need higher quality? As long as it's balanced all the way.. Yeah man, a patchbay has been a solid and great investment here, especially as the outboard has grown. I recently picked up the Samson S-Patch Plus and have been really happy with it. In fact, I bought 2 more. Everything is patched in. My hardware is normalled, and I'll patch in mics when tracking. It's been a solid improvement to my workflow. The switches on the front on the Samson have been really handy, too. |
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Post by drbill on Oct 17, 2016 16:11:43 GMT -6
I've built, fixed, rebuilt, tore down and reconfigured sooooo many patch bays over the years.
When I made the decision to do it right, do it expandable, and do it with no expensives spared, that was one of the best "studio" days of my life. Elco's, all racks mobile, all racks connected via swappable length interconnects instead of hard wired, etc... I could write a short book on this, but let me say that any money spent on a quality TT patch bay that is reconfigurable will be a joy longerm. Cheap bays and/or short cuts = rough days in the studio....
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Post by drbill on Oct 17, 2016 16:16:21 GMT -6
Aaaand - if you cheap out or compromise, and if you stay in this business, you WILL redo them until you finally someday get it right.
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Post by ericn on Oct 17, 2016 16:38:09 GMT -6
Is this adequate or is there a reason I need higher quality? As long as it's balanced all the way.. Yeah man, a patchbay has been a solid and great investment here, especially as the outboard has grown. I recently picked up the Samson S-Patch Plus and have been really happy with it. In fact, I bought 2 more. Everything is patched in. My hardware is normalled, and I'll patch in mics when tracking. It's been a solid improvement to my workflow. The switches on the front on the Samson have been really handy, too. The Samson like so many other 1/4 bays uses cheap jacks like you would find on a focusrite or similar piece of gear , they were not designed for plug unplug plug... take a look at the Jacks in an ADC Moss & Mitchell or other pro bay ! For the price of a used bay from MR patchbay I just can't justify the cheap bays! |
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Post by ericn on Oct 17, 2016 16:42:52 GMT -6
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Post by drbill on Oct 17, 2016 16:43:06 GMT -6
The quality comparison between cheap chinese 1/4" bays and a quality TT bay (I actually don't know of any "cheap" quality TT bays, but maybe there are some) is like comparing a cheap piece of behringer gear to a quality Lexicon or RADAR or LTL (did you see that?? ) box. One is going to break in a year or two, and the other is going to last a lifetime (or two) of abuse. I know my TT bays will outlive me by a longshot. |
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Post by drbill on Oct 17, 2016 16:46:30 GMT -6
Side note - I do NOT recommend solder lug TT bays anymore unless you wire them to short lengths of Mogami and terminate them on a rear panel of Elco's or if you HAVE to, DB25's. You will regret it longterm when your studio changes, or your gear changes or you move.... The bays themselves are SOLID, but how you terminate and configure is the secret to a long happy life with them.....
(Spoken from the man who's rewired dozens of TT bays the hard way.)
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Post by ericn on Oct 17, 2016 16:47:49 GMT -6
The quality comparison between cheap chinese 1/4" bays and a quality TT bay (I actually don't know of any "cheap" quality TT bays, but maybe there are some) is like comparing a cheap piece of behringer gear to a quality Lexicon or RADAR or LTL (did you see that?? ) box. One is going to break in a year or two, and the other is going to last a lifetime (or two) of abuse. I know my TT bays will outlive me by a longshot. I have a bay that was installed in a Telco operators desk in Rice Lake WI in 1920 pulled in 1976 and still works some where! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 18:36:38 GMT -6
unless you wire them to short lengths of Mogami and terminate them on a rear panel of Elco's or if you HAVE to, DB25's. I was keeping up until this - now your speaking in tongues  |
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