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Post by swurveman on Sept 20, 2016 11:39:11 GMT -6
I am looking at the SSL Sigma. So, I'm wondering about the sound....
If anybody's had any experience with the Sigma, or the Duality and AWS consoles which also has MDAC technology, I'd appreciate your thoughts.
At the channel level the Sigma has SuperAnalogue MDAC (Multiplying Digital to Analogue Converter) technology where 16 fader channels of DAW automation are converted to analog gain changes using Sigma's MDACs. However, does the analog gain change run through anything within the Sigma that effects the sound, or is it just a way for the sigma channels to be altered by the DAW?
I realize that the Sigma can't imitate the sound of a traditional SSL console with channel EQ's/Compressors, but I read things like...
....and I wonder if there's any validity to this. This would indicate that at the channel a level there is a "sound" that can be manipulated to provide a pleasing distortion effect, but where does the distortion com from?
Thanks to anybody with thoughts....
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Post by jeremygillespie on Sept 20, 2016 22:20:52 GMT -6
To me, if you are using any outboard gear, mainly comps, this is the only summing box that makes sense - as you can automate post compressor and you aren't riding the levels going into your outboard gear.
I've worked on a 9000K for about 10 years, and have worked on a J a handful of times. The sound at mix time Is fantastic imo. Granted, I don't use the pres much as we have extensive outboard pres for tracking.
I've taken 8 channels out of somebody's itb mix and thrown it up on 8 channels of the ssl and the difference in sound is remarkable. Makes me really question the people who say summing boxes don't add anything. It is definitely NOT subtle. That is also going into the insert return on the console in order to bypass the line amps, eq, and comp sections of the board.
I've spent a week tracking with a Duality. After the innitial learning process for what is different than what I'm used to, I find it a pretty amazing desk. The harmonic switch (don't remember what they call it) on the preamps are super useful. Didnt do any mixing on it, but TLA was packing up the day I arrived and he seemed super happy with the desk and didn't have any complaints.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 21, 2016 8:27:53 GMT -6
Thanks for your reply Jeremy. Yes, automation post compression is a very important factor for me. I don't know why other Summing Mixer manufacturers don't address this problem. I think people looking at summing analog would like all their analog gear to be out of the box without A-D-/D-A loops, but I may be wrong. Perhaps we're in an era where many people don't automate anymore. That's good to hear, as I believe the 9000 Series uses the SuperAnalogue circuitry.. The SuperAnalogue is a different circuit than the circuits on the 4000 boards that made SSL so famous. Do you know enough about the Superanalogue circuit to know why just running music into those channels made your music sound better? Did you drive the channels into a sweet spot, or did you do no level/gain adjusting? I've contacted Vintage King to see if I can hear the Sigma. So, when I hear it I'll let everybody know. Thanks again for your information!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,014
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Post by ericn on Sept 21, 2016 9:42:51 GMT -6
OK When SSL first came out with the 4K nobody really was that in awe of the sonics, the onboard dynamics in every ch, the power of that EQ & filters, the routing and of course the recall and automation. It wasn't until the 9K came out and those who grew up on the 4K started missing that sound. SSL has always been more to the clean side of things and like any circuit you push it to hard it's going to distort, With the superanalog stuff SSL cleaned things up and embraced the fact that people were going to push it at the same time. The Sigma and devices like it are probably the future of the console, I just wish SSL would give us 2 things; software that would let us build a modular console, with busses and auxes; a smaller less expensive building block so the entry Ito such a system would be cheaper . The one thing that SSL has no control over that would make it perfect is if AVID would grant SSL a EUCON lic, for both the SIGMA and controllers !
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Post by keymod on Sept 21, 2016 10:25:06 GMT -6
Afaik, Sigma can be used standalone, with a controller, to automate an existing analog console. I would expect it to "enhance" what goes through it in some sort of "hi-fi" way. Used in conjunction with the quality virtual channel strips available, I can't see it being anything other than fantastic.
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Post by svart on Sept 21, 2016 11:14:05 GMT -6
I just wish SSL would give us 2 things; software that would let us build a modular console, with busses and auxes It's called "SSLMixer" and it runs on their DSP cards. I've been using it for more than a decade..
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,014
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Post by ericn on Sept 21, 2016 11:39:16 GMT -6
I just wish SSL would give us 2 things; software that would let us build a modular console, with busses and auxes It's called "SSLMixer" and it runs on their DSP cards. I've been using it for more than a decade.. Yeah but it isn't set up to control sigma .. Yet!
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Post by keymod on Sept 21, 2016 12:59:58 GMT -6
You also still need D/A converters with Sigma, correct? To bring analog into it from your DAW.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,014
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Post by ericn on Sept 21, 2016 13:25:37 GMT -6
You also still need D/A converters with Sigma, correct? To bring analog into it from your DAW. Yep!
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Post by roundbadge on Sept 21, 2016 13:28:20 GMT -6
Doesn't sound like a 4K .they always sounded kinda weird/broken to me.a big hi pass filter ..anyways..that's another thread. Sigma is sonically wider more open high fi. The DAW auto is cool for inserts etc. It's a nice unit.
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Post by keymod on Sept 21, 2016 14:11:37 GMT -6
Lol, This thread is giving me GAS.
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Post by matt on Sept 23, 2016 12:08:33 GMT -6
I own a Sigma, and as roundbadge says, it is open/clean to my ears. I do not push levels too hard, staying at around -6 on the channels and -4 on output bus A. However, it still sounds good even when those funny little red lights start blinking.
My 2-bus chain lives on insert A.
I use the older browser-based Sigma "Ctrl" interface to control the Sigma via Eucon from Pro Tools 11HD. 16 tracks at the top of every session allow me to write automation directly into PT, or perform fader moves on two Artist Mixes. The Sigma follows it all.
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Post by joseph on Sept 23, 2016 15:33:31 GMT -6
Wasn't Syra over at GS complaining about it not having VCA groups support?
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Post by swurveman on Sept 25, 2016 17:33:43 GMT -6
I own a Sigma, and as roundbadge says, it is open/clean to my ears. I do not push levels too hard, staying at around -6 on the channels and -4 on output bus A. However, it still sounds good even when those funny little red lights start blinking. My 2-bus chain lives on insert A. I use the older browser-based Sigma "Ctrl" interface to control the Sigma via Eucon from Pro Tools 11HD. 16 tracks at the top of every session allow me to write automation directly into PT, or perform fader moves on two Artist Mixes. The Sigma follows it all. Do you use both the Mix A and Mix B Bus's? Also, how do you like the monitoring? I currently have a Central Station with the Remote Control on my desk. So, it's really easy to switch monitors.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 25, 2016 17:57:59 GMT -6
Wasn't Syra over at GS complaining about it not having VCA groups support? Yes. He has the Artist Mix Controller, which can Control ITB VCA Groups, but somehow it can't be integrated with Sigma. You would think Avid would have a vested interest in working with SSL for this knowing that there are people out there that are selling Duality's to buy Sigmas's controlled by Artist Mix (s).
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Post by matt on Sept 25, 2016 20:15:10 GMT -6
I own a Sigma, and as roundbadge says, it is open/clean to my ears. I do not push levels too hard, staying at around -6 on the channels and -4 on output bus A. However, it still sounds good even when those funny little red lights start blinking. My 2-bus chain lives on insert A. I use the older browser-based Sigma "Ctrl" interface to control the Sigma via Eucon from Pro Tools 11HD. 16 tracks at the top of every session allow me to write automation directly into PT, or perform fader moves on two Artist Mixes. The Sigma follows it all. Do you use both the Mix A and Mix B Bus's? Also, how do you like the monitoring? I currently have a Central Station with the Remote Control on my desk. So, it's really easy to switch monitors. I currently use just Mix A, and I monitor through a Dangerous Monitor ST, which I already owned when a used Sigma became available. I am sure that the Sigma would be good for monitor control, but I am so comfortable with the ST that I don't see ever changing. To use both mix buses I would want to expand my outboard, and get a second Burl AD. That's an expensive proposition, and I'm not sure how much I'd gain by doing it. Some day, maybe. . .
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Post by matt on Sept 25, 2016 20:17:48 GMT -6
Wasn't Syra over at GS complaining about it not having VCA groups support? Yes. He has the Artist Mix Controller, which can Control ITB VCA Groups, but somehow it can't be integrated with Sigma. You would think Avid would have a vested interest in working with SSL for this knowing that there are people out there that are selling Duality's to buy Sigmas's controlled by Artist Mix (s). I think the problem has to do with PT12 and the latest Sigma Delta control software. They don't talk to each other as needed. Yet.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 26, 2016 7:38:30 GMT -6
Yes. He has the Artist Mix Controller, which can Control ITB VCA Groups, but somehow it can't be integrated with Sigma. You would think Avid would have a vested interest in working with SSL for this knowing that there are people out there that are selling Duality's to buy Sigmas's controlled by Artist Mix (s). I think the problem has to do with PT12 and the latest Sigma Delta control software. They don't talk to each other as needed. Yet. There should be an open standard DAW Control protocol.
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