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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2016 14:20:04 GMT -6
Ploughing my way through this thread wowzer ......
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Post by svart on Sept 12, 2016 14:56:53 GMT -6
Lol. I remember that thread, and some others over at the purple site that covered similar discussions.
Here's 20 items that I've learned over the years.. Most of this is good for the home recordist, some only for those who get paid to record..
1: Gear quality matters. Better gear will allow you to progress faster, and without second guessing yourself.
2: You won't see the pros using consumer and prosumer gear for the most part.. They mostly use professional gear except for the odd application.
3: Gear has a bell curve of price/performance. Once you reach the peak of performance vs. price, you reach the point of diminishing returns.
4: Consumer/Prosumer gear does not have good resale value for the most part. You will lose money through the "upgrade cycle"/GAS phenomenon. Save your money until you can get something from the pro level.
5: Avoid buying cheap and "upgrading", you'll just spend your time wishing for better and wondering if you're improving, or if the gear is holding you back.
6: Buy what you need, not what you want. If you can't put it to use immediately to fill a need, then it's a waste of money.
7: Professional audio engineers always have the same gear in their studios. Buy that gear. It's proven itself over decades of use. Everything else has been left behind by the professionals for one reason or another.
8: Instrument quality matters as much as recording gear. Better instruments don't necessarily sound better, but they play better, stay in tune better and are more reliable.
9: New strings on guitars for every session, that's how the pros do it.
10: Tune between every take, every stringed instrument.
11: Tune snare every single drum take, toms every 3rd take, kick every session.
12: Spend an hour finding and fixing every single rattle, and noise on every amp, cabinet and the drum kit.
13: Create and maintain an easy to learn file system and then back up after every session.
14: Have a plan for what you're going to do, have a backup plan for that, and an alternate plan for the backup plan.
15: Always keep spares of every consumable item. Drumsticks, strings, picks, etc.
16: If something is not working in the session, stop. Continuing will only mean more to re-do later.
17: Monitoring and room tuning matter more than anything else. If you can't hear what you're doing, how can you place a mic correctly, or set an effect or EQ correctly?
18: When in doubt, record clean or DI and reamp or add effects later.
19: When recording paying clients, be factual and unbiased.
20: Above all, you're there to make the session run smoothly and capture the artist's best performance. Act professionally but find a way to connect with the artist. They'll feel more comfortable and you'll likely hear a better explanation of what they want from you and the session.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2016 15:36:04 GMT -6
a lot of your advice resonates (no pun intended) - especially about buying decent gear - I kinda sussed that out when I used to play live, but as for recording attempts I'm still learning the hard way as for that thread , there are some real gems such as ...... "Home recordists take heart: all of the Detroit-era Motown records were made in the small (originally dirt floor) basement of Berry Gordy's humble Detroit home. I am paraphrasing from the film "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" when I say: "people always wanted to know where that 'Motown Sound' came from. They thought it was the wood, the microphones, the floor, the food, but they never asked about the musicians."
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Post by svart on Sept 12, 2016 17:14:11 GMT -6
a lot of your advice resonates (no pun intended) - especially about buying decent gear - I kinda sussed that out when I used to play live, but as for recording attempts I'm still learning the hard way as for that thread , there are some real gems such as ...... "Home recordists take heart: all of the Detroit-era Motown records were made in the small (originally dirt floor) basement of Berry Gordy's humble Detroit home. I am paraphrasing from the film "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" when I say: "people always wanted to know where that 'Motown Sound' came from. They thought it was the wood, the microphones, the floor, the food, but they never asked about the musicians." Not to get you down but you also need a frame of reference.. Because you are a home recordist, you see a statement like that as an affirmation that you can do the same with your home studio. That's because you have a desire to do well with little investment. However it's worth noting that a lot of gear used back in Motown days was generic gear to them but they had very little to choose from. There was only a few microphones of the time worth using, and the same with preamps and compressors as well as the tape decks. Today we have probably 100 times the amount of gear to choose from. Due to their limitations of the time the Motown sound was inherent in their choices of gear. It may have been the best they could do at the time when they might have yearned for something more like what were achieving today. Back then a lot less emphasis was put on room tone then it is today because the resolution and fidelity was a lot less back then. But you also have to look at the gear choices themselves. I can bet that most of their microphones started with the letter U, and the preamps and compressors that used now go for tens of thousands of dollars or more.. which still brings us back to point number one of my list professionals use professional gear..
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Post by reddirt on Sept 12, 2016 19:01:28 GMT -6
Not in any way meaning to cause a dispute or diss other's opinions but I respectfully have to add to the thread that a good song in the hands of a quality musician using a 003 and sm 57s could sound terrific. Seriously, I want to underline that the biggest determinant is the human being and if they're quality the eqpt will be insignificant to some extent. The Motown players proved that I believe. Giving that player and song recognised "pro" eqpt will make it sound better but not by any order of magnitude that will affect it's abilities to connect with "Joe Blow".
I was out on a film shoot right out in one of the remotest areas of Australia and awoke to a tremendous rhythm; it was a young kid with 2 sticks off the ground playing a tin fence - he had it big time!
I love my BAE etc because it makes my job easier and more enjoyable however the best acoustic sound i have ever gotten was with a battered $650 Maton into an ADAT - it was all in the artist's fingers.
In a home studio situation IMO, finding the best spot in the room is above the eqpt as well.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2016 0:29:16 GMT -6
The more I go on forums the more repulsed I am. Sweet jesus.
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Post by Ward on Sept 13, 2016 3:40:54 GMT -6
The more I go on forums the more repulsed I am. Sweet jesus. This is the only one I spend ANY time on anymore.
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Post by stratboy on Sept 13, 2016 4:04:33 GMT -6
The more I go on forums the more repulsed I am. Sweet jesus. This is the only one I spend ANY time on anymore. I completely agree.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 13, 2016 6:16:28 GMT -6
The more I go on forums the more repulsed I am. Sweet jesus. I only read some of the old archived stuff on that other site.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 13, 2016 6:20:11 GMT -6
The important thing to remember that home recording means compromise. You have to decide what compromises you will make. However more and more what's heard on the radio sounds like it was recorded in somebodies bedroom, unfortunately it isn't the oposite.
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Post by svart on Sept 13, 2016 6:47:08 GMT -6
Not in any way meaning to cause a dispute or diss other's opinions but I respectfully have to add to the thread that a good song in the hands of a quality musician using a 003 and sm 57s could sound terrific. Seriously, I want to underline that the biggest determinant is the human being and if they're quality the eqpt will be insignificant to some extent. The Motown players proved that I believe. Giving that player and song recognised "pro" eqpt will make it sound better but not by any order of magnitude that will affect it's abilities to connect with "Joe Blow". I was out on a film shoot right out in one of the remotest areas of Australia and awoke to a tremendous rhythm; it was a young kid with 2 sticks off the ground playing a tin fence - he had it big time! I love my BAE etc because it makes my job easier and more enjoyable however the best acoustic sound i have ever gotten was with a battered $650 Maton into an ADAT - it was all in the artist's fingers. In a home studio situation IMO, finding the best spot in the room is above the eqpt as well. Cheers, Ross Agree to a point. I always make my clients do "demos", even if they are coming to me to do demos. I'll make them record to their phones if necessary, it helps them solidify ideas, and fix problems, and it forces them to focus on the songs until they can get it right. Most of them have some rudimentary recording gear. A 57/58 and some interface, usually of the 002/003/Scarlett range. It can sound pretty decent and that's cool, but when they hear their music being played through well-placed mics, properly set-up amps, in a tuned room, through a high end preamp with just the right amount of gain and HP/LPF, and then monitored through other gear and good monitors.. That's when you see the little smiles start, and turn into big grins as they finally hear what they've been imagining.. In all it's glory. That's when you know you're fulfilling a desire, or a fantasy of theirs.. And you usually get a performance of a lifetime, because you've just created a perfect situation for creativity and performance that wasn't there before. You see them put just a little more effort and focus into it. Everyone says that they are they best they can be, but as a recordist, I believe I can always make it a little better. I might be getting paid to record folks, but I'm also here to help them. I'm pretty biased though, now that I record people for money. I see it as a job to do, and that drives me to do it better than everyone around me. I find that many home recordists record themselves because they feel that nobody else will put the effort into their art like they would. They feel that nobody else understands it or connects with it at a deep enough level to give it the love they feel it needs. That's the mindset I find when talking to bands about recording, and why I believe there are so many on the internet who search for self-recording information. Well, that and thousands of cheap audio gear companies all marketing their gear with "just like top-of-the-line but for soooo cheap!" which convinces those who want top quality, (but don't want to save for top quality) to buy their gear.. Thus starting and perpetuating the gear upgrade cycle. However, it's a double-edged sword. These are also the same people who are so proud of their own recordings, and have put in so much sweat-equity, that they can't hear it for what it is.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 13, 2016 9:08:47 GMT -6
There's a sub-group in the home recordist category I'll call Apartment Recordists. Some of us, namely me, are in a situation where the odds of getting a good sound are stacked way against us. I live in an apartment next to the mail room, so mailboxes bang and people chat intermittently, below me is a laundry room, the machines when in action hum loudly and mics pick it up. The elevator motor is also below me, (I'm on the ground floor), I wait for the elevator to stop before recording, and hope it doesn't start again. Outside my window is the garbage collection area, which can get noisy on pickup days. My building and the building next door are having brick pointing done, which takes forever, hammers, electric tools, guys yelling.
It's a wonder I ever get anything done. My takeaway and advice to any home recordist is this, find the gear with the tones you like. This isn't easy, I've had an API based preamp, a REDD 47 based pre, and borrowed a Neve style pre once. The Neve was the better fit for me, but it may take me a little while before I can manage to get one for myself. At least I know where to aim my sights now.
OK, once you're OK with the sound in general, track with low levels, and just forget about any of the gear you don't have. The performance is the only thing that can overcome those obstacles. Get in shape, ( talking to myself here ;-) , get the song together, and just find the soul of it and express that.
People will respond to sincerity more than sound quality. The best singer is the one you believe.
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Post by M57 on Sept 13, 2016 10:12:17 GMT -6
That's the mindset I find when talking to bands about recording, and why I believe there are so many on the internet who search for self-recording information. Well, that and thousands of cheap audio gear companies all marketing their gear with "just like top-of-the-line but for soooo cheap!" which convinces those who want top quality, (but don't want to save for top quality) to buy their gear.. Thus starting and perpetuating the gear upgrade cycle. However, it's a double-edged sword. These are also the same people who are so proud of their own recordings, and have put in so much sweat-equity, that they can't hear it for what it is. I'm only mildly embarrassed to admit that I fall into this category - though I'm in the one man band camp. I've never recorded any of my stuff in a pro studio, or even walked into one in over uhmm.. over three decades, and I though I know I have deficiencies where my engineering and mixing skills are concerned, and that engineering while performing is a recipe for stress ..not to mention a recipe for less than optimal performances, I've taken that as a challenge. Yes, I miss the input and collaborative nature of having others in the room, but I'm probably more likely to take chances - and I've learned to trust my instincts. There are other advantages I can leverage too. The obvious ones are those that are related to scheduling. If I'm on a roll, I go overtime - and if I'm sucking, I hit the switch and walk away - or take a nap, or or go and woodshed for an hour ..or a day; whatever it takes. If I'm mixing and decide the sound didn't work, I move the mics around and start all over. The sweat-equity is there, but I'm never satisfied. All that said, I've actually been somewhat proud of some of my recent recordings, so your words are a timely reminder that the 'recording quality' of what I'm creating can never be top shelf - and there comes a point at which I need to work with specialists and pros to raise the bar any higher.
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Post by svart on Sept 13, 2016 10:44:21 GMT -6
That's the mindset I find when talking to bands about recording, and why I believe there are so many on the internet who search for self-recording information. Well, that and thousands of cheap audio gear companies all marketing their gear with "just like top-of-the-line but for soooo cheap!" which convinces those who want top quality, (but don't want to save for top quality) to buy their gear.. Thus starting and perpetuating the gear upgrade cycle. However, it's a double-edged sword. These are also the same people who are so proud of their own recordings, and have put in so much sweat-equity, that they can't hear it for what it is. I'm only mildly embarrassed to admit that I fall into this category - though I'm in the one man band camp. I've never recorded any of my stuff in a pro studio, or even walked into one in over uhmm.. over three decades, and I though I know I have deficiencies where my engineering and mixing skills are concerned, and that engineering while performing is a recipe for stress ..not to mention a recipe for less than optimal performances, I've taken that as a challenge. Yes, I miss the input and collaborative nature of having others in the room, but I'm probably more likely to take chances - and I've learned to trust my instincts. There are other advantages I can leverage too. The obvious ones are those that are related to scheduling. If I'm on a roll, I go overtime - and if I'm sucking, I hit the switch and walk away - or take a nap, or or go and woodshed for an hour ..or a day; whatever it takes. If I'm mixing and decide the sound didn't work, I move the mics around and start all over. The sweat-equity is there, but I'm never satisfied. All that said, I've actually been somewhat proud of some of my recent recordings, so your words are a timely reminder that the 'recording quality' of what I'm creating can never be top shelf - and there comes a point at which I need to work with specialists and pros to raise the bar any higher. Oh yeah, I've been there too. I've told the story many times over the years, but the short version is that I'm generally bull-headed and in my youth, nobody could tell me what to do, and that was certainly the case in recording. I lived in a small town a couple hours south of the big city (Atlanta) and there wasn't much chance to go to a big studio. So I recorded my band, and soon recorded others.. First with a tape deck, then with 4 track, then moving on to a mixer/computer, then to larger mixer/HDD recorder, etc. I turned over so much gear searching for that elusive "pro" sound, all while only focusing on cheap gear. I was going to be that guy who was able to churn out radio-quality mixes using only Behringer gear. I just knew it in my heart that if I tried hard enough and practiced and read enough that I'd be that person to break that barrier and do something nobody else could do.. The money I spent on gear was ridiculous. I could have bought a handful of good mics, pres and compressors for the same money I threw away over a decade of chasing perfection through the low-end gear market. Needless to say, it never happened. I wasted so many years just playing around while the gear held me back. It's slightly different now, since the gear available today is overall much better, but the same rules apply. you have to pay to play, and your gear better be good enough to compete. Looking back on it, I had chances to really learn from some pros, but they told me things that were contrary to my beliefs at the time.. And my ego completely ignored their advice. This was advice that would have saved me 5 years or more of languishing in studio hell. But I was proud, and all the "work" I put in meant something, right? It had to mean something, or else I would have been a failure.. So I persevered under my own beliefs, and never went anywhere. And by "work" I mean struggling to work around all the deficiencies of my studio.. Namely non-professional level gear, and gear that was generally chosen by desire, not by need, and generally ill-suited for the things I was doing. I spent most of my time troubleshooting and working around issues, rather than mixing cohesive tracks.. As they say, mixing the life right out of the material. Unfortunately I see it in this generation's recordists, and in musicians in general, but a lot of them are like I was back in the day.. Too proud to listen.
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Post by jdc on Sept 13, 2016 11:25:51 GMT -6
I've just started getting my music mixes into a territory that I feel they can stand up to what would be considered professional (I mix broadcast television every day and can do it in my sleep, music operates in a whole different space).
Besides getting the correct gear (thinking of gear as a lens, and bad gear as a dirty lens, has helped me put into perspective why GOOD gear is so important), I've found that using a great sounding professional recordings as a reference track from the very beginning of the session all the way to the end has helped me navigate.
It's easy to throw up mics with no frame of reference, crank the monitors and say "yea that sounds great". it's only when i listen to it in relation to what ACTUALLY sounds great that i can hear "oh this desperately needs a HPF and shelf boost at 8k because it's bottom heavy and dull, not "warm and gooey".
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2016 12:20:29 GMT -6
The important thing to remember that home recording means compromise. You have to decide what compromises you will make. However more and more what's heard on the radio sounds like it was recorded in somebodies bedroom, unfortunately it isn't the oposite. Life in general is compromises, CLA talks about making compromises in mixing and I'm sure other guys at that level would say the same. Go listen to the new Jimmy Eat World record and tell me that it sounds like it was recorded in their jam space. Sounds insane and they've done almost everything in their catalog in home studios.
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 13, 2016 19:56:52 GMT -6
The most important thing - to me- is the song. That is where I can stay patient for a long time... in the end I have to like it... and no one else.
The biggest problem on the other purple website is not the recording gear. On GS for the most useres the gear talk is a substitute to not work hard on thier music.
I wont forget the day on GS when I kid came along with a great song mixed on a Behringer live board. Cant find the thread anymore.... but it was fun to read it....
There was another funny thread about which harddrive sounds best... LOL
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Post by jdc on Sept 14, 2016 15:10:16 GMT -6
There was another funny thread about which harddrive sounds best... LOL definitely solid state drives... although a tube drive would probably be warmer
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 14, 2016 15:59:36 GMT -6
There was another funny thread about which harddrive sounds best... LOL definitely solid state drives... although a tube drive would probably be warmer You may have a hard time mounting it but it will sound warmer....
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Post by Ward on Sept 15, 2016 5:43:15 GMT -6
There was another funny thread about which harddrive sounds best... LOL definitely solid state drives... Can you turn up the RPMs on those? (LOL)
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Post by mrholmes on Sept 15, 2016 6:12:04 GMT -6
definitely solid state drives... Can you turn up the RPMs on those? (LOL) In this case the music will speed up ........
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