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Post by swurveman on Sept 7, 2016 8:33:32 GMT -6
I'm curious about what people are using for cabinets for clean/some crunch/full distortion guitar sounds. Do you use the same cabinet, or does it depend on which sound you want? If you prefer a 1x12 or a2 x 12 - why? Also, open or closed back? For those who like open back, how often do you mic from the rear and what are you accomplishing by doing so.
Thanks to anybody who wants to share their thoughts!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Sept 7, 2016 9:00:55 GMT -6
I prefer 2 speaker cabs and closed back for more rock stuff.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 7, 2016 9:05:34 GMT -6
1 X 12" or 4 X 12", I never like 2 X 12" , something gets weird to my ears and is too piercing.
A partially open back, gives chunka chunk, but leaves some room for sound to move around the room too. Same amp, either use the guitar's volume control, the amps boost channel or a pedal for solos.
I record clean and solos on different tracks, it's easier to set up sounds that way. It's usually better if the solo sounds like a different guitar.
Matchless cabinets are killer for what you're referring to, Bad Cat's too.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 7, 2016 9:16:26 GMT -6
I prefer 2 speaker cabs and closed back for more rock stuff. What about the closed backs makes it more ideal for rock? Close micing with a more focused sound? |
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Post by swurveman on Sept 7, 2016 9:18:18 GMT -6
1 X 12" or 4 X 12", I never like 2 X 12" , something gets weird to my ears and is too piercing. A partially open back, gives chunka chunk, but leaves some room for sound to move around the room too. Same amp, either use the guitar's volume control, the amps boost channel or a pedal for solos. I record clean and solos on different tracks, it's easier to set up sounds that way. It's usually better if the solo sounds like a different guitar. Matchless cabinets are killer for what you're referring to, Bad Cat's too. Do you back mic the open cabinets Martin? Also, since the open back gives more of a room sound, do you back your mics away from the speakers to get more of the room? |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 7, 2016 9:20:59 GMT -6
Closed backs simply give you a little more thump, but to me, they're a little dull. The exception is the Marshall stack, that thing manages to sound right there, and doesn't sound like you've put a pillow on it. Of course, closed backs isolate sound a little more, but to me, the moveent of air all around that partially closed back gives is a better sound. My little Bad Cat kicks ass, and has an open back.
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Post by ragan on Sept 7, 2016 10:47:03 GMT -6
I like open back cabs more. If I were doing metal or something I'd be closed back all the way. I like the sound to breathe and growl and swell some.
I've mic'd the rear many times but I rarely end up using it.
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Post by svart on Sept 7, 2016 11:01:46 GMT -6
2x12. Oversized. Closed back.
I like closed back since it limits the speaker excursion somewhat. It gives more damping, and results in more tightness, but you get less low end from the speaker itself.. Which is why I like oversized cabinets. Oversized gives you a lower resonance point, which results in more low end, but without the droning in the low end.
Open back cabs just sound tinny to me.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 7, 2016 11:19:28 GMT -6
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,958 
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Post by ericn on Sept 7, 2016 12:33:07 GMT -6
Open back is more about the room and position, more and more I think most closed back cabs were sized for looks rather than giving any thought of how the chosen drivers would perform in them!
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 7, 2016 13:17:49 GMT -6
Closed backs simply give you a little more thump, but to me, they're a little dull. The exception is the Marshall stack, that thing manages to sound right there, and doesn't sound like you've put a pillow on it. Of course, closed backs isolate sound a little more, but to me, the moveent of air all around that partially closed back gives is a better sound. My little Bad Cat kicks ass, and has an open back. The thing that's different about Marshall cabs compared to most other 4x12s is that they're built "all wrong" from a conventional "purist" point of view, in that they have no real bracing except for a single 2x2 center post between the baffle and the back. This allows the panels to resonate and "breathe" a lot more than cabinets with heavier/more extensive bracing, creating "cabinet involvement" with the cab coloring the sound to a much greater degree than a cab that's "properly" braced by HiFi or PA standards. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 13:26:04 GMT -6
I'm currently using a stereo 6x12 Old Crowe Cab when there's budget for it. Micing up guitar amps is something I only do when there's a budget, the rest of the time I'll use Amplitube, Cab Sims, S Gear etc to keep the flat rate profitable. The 6x12 is a 2x12 G12 on the top section and a 4x12 V30 on the bottom and I can run four heads into it at a time and create some pretty massive sounds with it. I don't think they make them anymore and they're an absolute bitch to move so if you don't have a place you can just set it down and not move it it's a bit unpractical but I would recommend something like that for recording, it can cover a lot of bases.
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Post by Ward on Sept 8, 2016 7:50:26 GMT -6
Clean, open-back 2x12 with Celestion blues or golds.
Dirty or hairy, 2x12 mixed ceramics... Cellies again
Crunch, greenbacks in a closed 4x12 cab
soloing? Any of the above.
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Post by swurveman on Sept 8, 2016 8:12:43 GMT -6
Clean, open-back 2x12 with Celestion blues or golds. Dirty or hairy, 2x12 mixed ceramics... Cellies again Crunch, greenbacks in a closed 4x12 cab soloing? Any of the above. Thanks Ward. Putting you to the test here. Hope you don't mind: The opening riff- open or closed back....speakers? EDIT: Sorry-found it. Fender Hot Rod DeVille 4x10 open back. |
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Post by kilroyrock on Sept 8, 2016 9:58:07 GMT -6
my favorite real amping sound is a 2x12 open back cabinet against a wall. Give you a semi closed sound.
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Post by Ward on Sept 8, 2016 12:33:57 GMT -6
Clean, open-back 2x12 with Celestion blues or golds. Dirty or hairy, 2x12 mixed ceramics... Cellies again Crunch, greenbacks in a closed 4x12 cab soloing? Any of the above. Thanks Ward. Putting you to the test here. Hope you don't mind: The opening riff- open or closed back....speakers? EDIT: Sorry-found it. Fender Hot Rod DeVille 4x10 open back. Don;t know if Peter or Dan was using a stock HRD 4x10 here though... it might have been 'Sixty-Fived'  |
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Post by swurveman on Sept 8, 2016 12:40:51 GMT -6
Thanks Ward. Putting you to the test here. Hope you don't mind: The opening riff- open or closed back....speakers? EDIT: Sorry-found it. Fender Hot Rod DeVille 4x10 open back. Don;t know if Peter or Dan was using a stock HRD 4x10 here though... it might have been 'Sixty-Fived' You can never be sure from the internet, but some guy quoted an old GP magazine article where Wendy Melvoin said she played the lick through a HRD into a tube condensor mic with a Memory Man delay and a bit of Tubescreamer. The HRD get slammed in every forum, but when I hear them on Youtube the clean channel sounds fine. |
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Post by wiz on Sept 8, 2016 14:46:55 GMT -6
HUBBA HUBBA
8)
cheers
Wiz
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Post by johneppstein on Sept 9, 2016 16:30:16 GMT -6
Don;t know if Peter or Dan was using a stock HRD 4x10 here though... it might have been 'Sixty-Fived' You can never be sure from the internet, but some guy quoted an old GP magazine article where Wendy Melvoin said she played the lick through a HRD into a tube condensor mic with a Memory Man delay and a bit of Tubescreamer. The HRD get slammed in every forum, but when I hear them on Youtube the clean channel sounds fine. The main problem I've found with the HRD is poor build quality, along with some questionable design decisions. On at least some versions of the amp the (solid state driven and amplified) reverb circuit is situated so that when you turn the master down the reverb tends to go away. And I don't really think much of using TL0-72s for reverb drive and amplification instead of proper tube circuitry seems like a bean counter decision to save the cost of 2 tubes, 2 sockets, and a driver transformer. I've also known some people to have problems with the FET switching going bad after some time. The layout of the amp is also rather difficult to work on, and the tube sockets are soldered directly to a daughter PC board, which is not a good idea. Also the pots mount directly to the main circuit boartd, so to troubleshoot the board you have to remove all the pots, which is a royal time consuming PITA. The input jacks also mount directly to the main board, so if you lose a nut (and they do tend to work loose) it can easily result in cracked solder connections to the input jack. I don't really have any criticism about the sound quality of a properly functioning HRD, they seem to work fine for a lot of people until they start to develop problems, but if they do your service fees are going to reflect the fact that it generally takes much more time taking the amp apart and putting it back together than it does in actual repairs. And because of the way the boards mount it's not very conducive to checking things hot when the boards are out of the chassis. It was NOT designed with serviceability in mind... |
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Post by swurveman on Sept 9, 2016 17:05:12 GMT -6
You can never be sure from the internet, but some guy quoted an old GP magazine article where Wendy Melvoin said she played the lick through a HRD into a tube condensor mic with a Memory Man delay and a bit of Tubescreamer. The HRD get slammed in every forum, but when I hear them on Youtube the clean channel sounds fine. The main problem I've found with the HRD is poor build quality, along with some questionable design decisions. On at least some versions of the amp the (solid state driven and amplified) reverb circuit is situated so that when you turn the master down the reverb tends to go away. And I don't really think much of using TL0-72s for reverb drive and amplification instead of proper tube circuitry seems like a bean counter decision to save the cost of 2 tubes, 2 sockets, and a driver transformer. I've also known some people to have problems with the FET switching going bad after some time. The layout of the amp is also rather difficult to work on, and the tube sockets are soldered directly to a daughter PC board, which is not a good idea. Also the pots mount directly to the main circuit boartd, so to troubleshoot the board you have to remove all the pots, which is a royal time consuming PITA. The input jacks also mount directly to the main board, so if you lose a nut (and they do tend to work loose) it can easily result in cracked solder connections to the input jack. I don't really have any criticism about the sound quality of a properly functioning HRD, they seem to work fine for a lot of people until they start to develop problems, but if they do your service fees are going to reflect the fact that it generally takes much more time taking the amp apart and putting it back together than it does in actual repairs. And because of the way the boards mount it's not very conducive to checking things hot when the boards are out of the chassis. It was NOT designed with serviceability in mind... Thanks for your detailed explanation. Not good since I was thinking of buying used, which would probably increase the likelihood that something could go wrong sooner. Since you clearly know a lot about amps, would you recommend an amp in the $1,000.00 range that can give that clean, chimey sound that the opening riff of "My Favorite Mistake" embedded above makes? |
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Post by donr on Sept 9, 2016 21:04:24 GMT -6
Good to hear that opening guitar went to tape sounding like that. Musically, I don't think that much of the magic was the particular amp used. The track might have succeeded with a more linear sterile clean amp tone. It might have been the stomp box electronics that gave it the magic. I suspect the EH Memory Man, but I'm just guessing. It sounds like the amp was approaching loud but not loud for the amp, and there was a resilient compressor touching the track somewhere before the final 2 mix.
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Post by ragan on Sept 10, 2016 0:13:39 GMT -6
The main problem I've found with the HRD is poor build quality, along with some questionable design decisions. On at least some versions of the amp the (solid state driven and amplified) reverb circuit is situated so that when you turn the master down the reverb tends to go away. And I don't really think much of using TL0-72s for reverb drive and amplification instead of proper tube circuitry seems like a bean counter decision to save the cost of 2 tubes, 2 sockets, and a driver transformer. I've also known some people to have problems with the FET switching going bad after some time. The layout of the amp is also rather difficult to work on, and the tube sockets are soldered directly to a daughter PC board, which is not a good idea. Also the pots mount directly to the main circuit boartd, so to troubleshoot the board you have to remove all the pots, which is a royal time consuming PITA. The input jacks also mount directly to the main board, so if you lose a nut (and they do tend to work loose) it can easily result in cracked solder connections to the input jack. I don't really have any criticism about the sound quality of a properly functioning HRD, they seem to work fine for a lot of people until they start to develop problems, but if they do your service fees are going to reflect the fact that it generally takes much more time taking the amp apart and putting it back together than it does in actual repairs. And because of the way the boards mount it's not very conducive to checking things hot when the boards are out of the chassis. It was NOT designed with serviceability in mind... Thanks for your detailed explanation. Not good since I was thinking of buying used, which would probably increase the likelihood that something could go wrong sooner. Since you clearly know a lot about amps, would you recommend an amp in the $1,000.00 range that can give that clean, chimey sound that the opening riff of "My Favorite Mistake" embedded above makes? I'm not John (obviously) but I'd say either the 65 or 68 Deluxe Reverb reissues. I love those things, especially the 68. Here's a really well done shootout between the two. I wish all amp comparisons were done this way. |
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Post by swurveman on Sept 10, 2016 8:21:10 GMT -6
I'm not John (obviously) but I'd say either the 65 or 68 Deluxe Reverb reissues. I love those things, especially the 68. Here's a really well done shootout between the two. I wish all amp comparisons were done this way. Thanks. Here's the 65 reissue doing (I think) some Marshall Tucker, or something from that tone school. Pretty impressive imo. |
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Post by popmann on Sept 10, 2016 10:41:08 GMT -6
I don't think those sound similar at all....AND they're playing pedals to get the little hair they have.
That tone also isn't close to clean. I mean, that's a 100wt Plexi on 6.....do we just keep letting drop D squarewave paste tone define "dirty" and keep pushing that to the right? It's hard to not make political commentary....a vintage Fender is CLEAN. They define clean with the 60s Blackface. They "fixed the glitch" of the Tweeds distorting....which Marshall took and ran the other direction with.
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Post by strangeways on Sept 11, 2016 10:03:36 GMT -6
Thanks for your detailed explanation. Not good since I was thinking of buying used, which would probably increase the likelihood that something could go wrong sooner. Since you clearly know a lot about amps, would you recommend an amp in the $1,000.00 range that can give that clean, chimey sound that the opening riff of "My Favorite Mistake" embedded above makes? I'm not John (obviously) but I'd say either the 65 or 68 Deluxe Reverb reissues. I love those things, especially the 68. Here's a really well done shootout between the two. I wish all amp comparisons were done this way. Anyone else find i comical that as the guy in the video claims "same mic position is used" that the mic gets bumped and the position moves as he's swapping amps out? |
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