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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 19, 2013 16:48:57 GMT -6
Hey guys -
I'm suggesting a system for the same guy I suggested the Octopre for...Just don't want to tell him anything wrong. I know these things are kind of "experiment until it works"...but I'm trying to tell him the right thing. Anyway, the whole goal is to be able to track some drums in another room and monitor without latency. We've hooked up the Octopre ADAT to the Quartet and that's working...So, in Pro Tools, to get a stereo headphone mix, I could just route the outputs of everything that we want to hear to an AUX and then run line outputs to a headphone cue system, right? But if it's just a stereo headphone mix, I guess we could just use the headphone outs of the Quartet instead of spending money for a cue system? My question is whether that's going to be loud enough to hear when playing drums.
Another question I have is about latency. In Maestro - in the Output tab - just make sure all of the hardware outputs are set to "mixer 1"? This is shit is confusing.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 19, 2013 17:51:49 GMT -6
I don't know about seeing up the quartet, but I run line outs from my system into a cheap B%|=>@$ger Powerplay headphone amp and it's plenty loud to track drums with. Good set of iso headphones helps too. I use Sennheiser in ears.
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Post by mobeach on Nov 19, 2013 18:34:41 GMT -6
I don't know about seeing up the quartet, but I run line outs from my system into a cheap B%|=>@$ger Powerplay headphone amp and it's plenty loud to track drums with. Good set of iso headphones helps too. I use Sennheiser in ears. A Powerplay is exactly what I use, it's reliable actually! With AKG K240's and Sennhieser sometimes. It was loud enough for my drummer when we were doing metal. |
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Post by svart on Nov 19, 2013 19:16:42 GMT -6
What I do is setup virtual "outputs" and send them to the ADAT outputs on my Alphalink. From there, they go into one of those cheap behringer ADA8000 things and out to cheap 8 channel mixers mounted on mic stands. If the person wants to hear no-latency, the outputs are placed before the streams go to the DAW. If they want to hear effects or grouping, I send the "outputs" to virtual busses which then go out to the mixers. I don't know if you can set something up similar with what you have or not but I've had nary a complaint since I built the system. Folks can mix their own headphone mixes how they like.
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Post by popmann on Nov 19, 2013 20:29:42 GMT -6
What you DON'T do is monitor drums through software-just take that off the table, IME. At the LEAST, you set up the cue to feed out of the Apogee hardware mixer...actually, since you bought a system of integrated preamps, that's all you can do...as there's no way to tap the analog preamp feed and keep the cue analog. So, the only question is whether to use the builtin headphone outs or feed line outs into a headphone amp. Which really depends a lot on the headphones...and how loud the guy wants them...the obvious answer being try the built in and see if they;re loud enough....if not, buy new phones that don't take as much to drive them, or a serious headphone amp.
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 19, 2013 22:05:48 GMT -6
So, the only question is whether to use the builtin headphone outs or feed line outs into a headphone amp. Which really depends a lot on the headphones...and how loud the guy wants them...the obvious answer being try the built in and see if they;re loud enough....if not, buy new phones that don't take as much to drive them, or a serious headphone amp. I think this is the ticket...We can try the Quartet HP's outs. The drums are in another room about 30 feet away, but we can possibly just buy a 50ft. headphone extender and run it there. If that's not loud enough, we can run line out into a headphone amp to boost it. Then if that doesn't work, I'm just gonna tell the guy he needs to spend some damn money if he wants it to work right. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Nov 20, 2013 5:52:16 GMT -6
So, the only question is whether to use the builtin headphone outs or feed line outs into a headphone amp. Which really depends a lot on the headphones...and how loud the guy wants them...the obvious answer being try the built in and see if they;re loud enough....if not, buy new phones that don't take as much to drive them, or a serious headphone amp. I think this is the ticket...We can try the Quartet HP's outs. The drums are in another room about 30 feet away, but we can possibly just buy a 50ft. headphone extender and run it there. If that's not loud enough, we can run line out into a headphone amp to boost it. Then if that doesn't work, I'm just gonna tell the guy he needs to spend some damn money if he wants it to work right. Is he sending the mics through a snake? If so, send the headphone feed through it too and you won't need the 50' extender. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 20, 2013 11:03:13 GMT -6
I think this is the ticket...We can try the Quartet HP's outs. The drums are in another room about 30 feet away, but we can possibly just buy a 50ft. headphone extender and run it there. If that's not loud enough, we can run line out into a headphone amp to boost it. Then if that doesn't work, I'm just gonna tell the guy he needs to spend some damn money if he wants it to work right. Is he sending the mics through a snake? If so, send the headphone feed through it too and you won't need the 50' extender. Yeah - it's a snake that has XLR and 1/4 inch. So, could I just connect a stereo line out through the snake and then in the other end, plug the stereo signal into the little headphone amp? |
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Post by LesC on Nov 20, 2013 12:46:47 GMT -6
You would do that if you want the headphone control in the hands of the drummer. Alternatively, you can connect a stereo line out into the headphone amp, and then the headphone amp output through the snake with an adapter at the other end for the headphones.
I use a Behringer Powerplay in my rack, with a headphone extension to the recording room. I prefer having that control, so I can wear headphones plugged into the duplicate output on the Powerplay, so I can hear what they are hearing. This way I know that I'm not accidentally blowing their eardrums out initially. Then I put the volume to whatever they want.
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Post by popmann on Nov 20, 2013 13:44:41 GMT -6
Of course you want the cue LEVEL in the hands of the drummer. It's HIS studio and he's the one with the most ambient loudness to contend with.  Plus--long balanced run to the headphone amp in the drum room is a more solid set up than super long headphone extender. But, in terms of runs--30ft isn't really long...depending on what it run across/alongside...but, you can just get/make some Y cables to feed two inexpensive headphone amps if you want to use one for the main room and one for the distant. Properly, every room should have it's own headphone amp with a couple outs in the wall. If you just use a headphone amp in the control room and run the headphone line 30ft (which not straight across the middle of the floor will become 60 quickly)--there's no reason to HAVE a headphone amp. Just get an extension cable for the Apogee outs, you know? |
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Post by jazznoise on Nov 20, 2013 14:03:24 GMT -6
What you DON'T do is monitor drums through software-just take that off the table, IME. At the LEAST, you set up the cue to feed out of the Apogee hardware mixer...actually, since you bought a system of integrated preamps, that's all you can do...as there's no way to tap the analog preamp feed and keep the cue analog. So, the only question is whether to use the builtin headphone outs or feed line outs into a headphone amp. Which really depends a lot on the headphones...and how loud the guy wants them...the obvious answer being try the built in and see if they;re loud enough....if not, buy new phones that don't take as much to drive them, or a serious headphone amp. Yeah, why worry about buffers when you can real time monitor? Makes life a lot less fussy. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Nov 20, 2013 14:34:21 GMT -6
I've got a Hearback system and that would make his life a lot easier...but he doesn't want to spend the cash.
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Post by popmann on Nov 20, 2013 16:30:49 GMT -6
That's digital isn't it?
That said...what am I missing here? This really doesn't seem like a big issue or expenditure so long as you're doing a digital monitor to start with. The quartet has two...any headphone amp for $75 or whatever will add 4+ more and allow them to carry a separate cue (or the same) as the quartet...and into a different room balanced (this rejecting noise).
I'm pretty sure I rec'd a Mackie mixer to handle pres, eq, and cue...but, honestly the difference is digital converter latency (vs analog) and added complexity in set up and operation. Not some huge end result capability difference. Ill tell you why I make the rec--is because you are always using two mixers--a cue and the software playback...but, SO many people don't wrap their head around it when the two mixers are both digital and on their screen. Put a Mackie or A&H--any gigable little mixer and all of a sudden people "get"--the "live cue mixer" is right HERE...and the tape return mixer is on the screen. They of course don't use those terms, but...when the two mixers are the 56bit hardware chip in the Apogee and the software, they don't fully "get" the functional separation.
Anyway...have you been over to help him?
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Plus--long balanced run to the headphone amp in the drum room is a more solid set up than super long headphone extender. But, in terms of runs--30ft isn't really long...depending on what it run across/alongside...but, you can just get/make some Y cables to feed two inexpensive headphone amps if you want to use one for the main room and one for the distant. Properly, every room should have it's own headphone amp with a couple outs in the wall. If you just use a headphone amp in the control room and run the headphone line 30ft (which not straight across the middle of the floor will become 60 quickly)--there's no reason to HAVE a headphone amp. Just get an extension cable for the Apogee outs, you know? 