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Post by nobtwiddler on Jun 13, 2016 11:31:57 GMT -6
1 mic split to 2 preamps. Each mic pre set accordingly as to capture both loud & soft parts with no problems. Record 2 tracks at once, one at a decent level the other at -20, 30 or whatever works. Can level out tracks and parts after the fact. This way, no overloads, no distortion, and no problems, etc.
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Post by Randge on Jun 13, 2016 11:53:27 GMT -6
1 mic split to 2 preamps. Each mic pre set accordingly as to capture both loud & soft parts with no problems. Record 2 tracks at once, one at a decent level the other at -20, 30 or whatever works. Can level out tracks and parts after the fact. This way, no overloads, no distortion, and no problems, etc. What device do you split with?
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 13, 2016 12:28:39 GMT -6
I've met a lot of singers who don't have great studio mic technique but sound fine on stage in front of an SM58. I work with a lot of singers that don't have good SM58 technique, keep 8 inches back and work the mic like it's a 47 (on stage), then struggle to get enough juice from their monitors without feeding back.
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Post by Ward on Jun 13, 2016 12:32:18 GMT -6
1 mic split to 2 preamps. Each mic pre set accordingly as to capture both loud & soft parts with no problems. Record 2 tracks at once, one at a decent level the other at -20, 30 or whatever works. Can level out tracks and parts after the fact. This way, no overloads, no distortion, and no problems, etc. Are you doing this with condensers or just with dynamics and/or ribbons? Because there's the issue of phantom power for almost all solid state condenser microphones... and that would mean having to get an additional piece of equipment: a Phantom Power Supply like the Neumann N452. You must have the microphone's power requirements supplied before you hit the splitter. And that Neumann N452 will set you back $450 at least. Of course, you could pick up a Neumann M80 or similar AKG P48 supply but I've not had the best success using one those cheaper older external phantom power supplies. OK, so I think theres a question in there somewhere....
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 13, 2016 12:37:58 GMT -6
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Post by joseph on Jun 13, 2016 12:48:19 GMT -6
1 mic split to 2 preamps. Each mic pre set accordingly as to capture both loud & soft parts with no problems. Record 2 tracks at once, one at a decent level the other at -20, 30 or whatever works. Can level out tracks and parts after the fact. This way, no overloads, no distortion, and no problems, etc. Are you doing this with condensers or just with dynamics and/or ribbons? Because there's the issue of phantom power for almost all solid state condenser microphones... and that would mean having to get an additional piece of equipment: a Phantom Power Supply like the Neumann N452. You must have the microphone's power requirements supplied before you hit the splitter. And that Neumann N452 will set you back $450 at least. Of course, you could pick up a Neumann M80 or similar AKG P48 supply but I've not had the best success using one those cheaper older external phantom power supplies. OK, so I think theres a question in there somewhere.... Splitters will pass phantom from one preamp, at least the JS2 does.
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Post by joseph on Jun 13, 2016 12:49:42 GMT -6
I've met a lot of singers who don't have great studio mic technique but sound fine on stage in front of an SM58. I work with a lot of singers that don't have good SM58 technique, keep 8 inches back and work the mic like it's a 47 (on stage), then struggle to get enough juice from their monitors without feeding back. Really? That's pretty funny. Granted eating a stage SM58 is disgusting, tastes like old cigarettes and spit.
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Post by M57 on Jun 13, 2016 12:53:40 GMT -6
I work with a lot of singers that don't have good SM58 technique, keep 8 inches back and work the mic like it's a 47 (on stage), then struggle to get enough juice from their monitors without feeding back. Really? That's pretty funny. Granted eating a stage SM58 is disgusting, tastes like old cigarettes and spit. Mine tasted like scotch.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 13, 2016 12:54:43 GMT -6
I work with a lot of singers that don't have good SM58 technique, keep 8 inches back and work the mic like it's a 47 (on stage), then struggle to get enough juice from their monitors without feeding back. Really? That's pretty funny. Granted eating a stage SM58 is disgusting, tastes like old cigarettes and spit. Yep, for $100 new though, they should be able to carry their own.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 13, 2016 15:52:47 GMT -6
I've met a lot of singers who don't have great studio mic technique but sound fine on stage in front of an SM58. Also even good musicians don't always have that much studio experience and can be stubborn in their misconceptions. For example, they may actually want a thick sounding instrument and balanced and clear vocal but want you to use only room mics and they hate "compression" but actually love parallel compression. Or they like dynamic mics or ribbons because they sound more like "tape", but actually they like condensers the best, they're just used to shitty ones. Or a drummer who doesn't think he needs a snare mic or a floor tom mic but does actually need them for reinforcement to get the sound they want. Just all depends. I'm sure the issue is not being used to the recording process and just belting it out like being on stage with a SM58.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 13, 2016 15:57:02 GMT -6
gain stage loudest part, clip gain it once you have it all recorded Good in theory but she was having issues hearing herself in the quiet sections. I was also having to gain ride her headphone cue send.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 13, 2016 16:04:13 GMT -6
1 mic split to 2 preamps. Each mic pre set accordingly as to capture both loud & soft parts with no problems. Record 2 tracks at once, one at a decent level the other at -20, 30 or whatever works. Can level out tracks and parts after the fact. This way, no overloads, no distortion, and no problems, etc. This is what I intend doing from now on. I'd actually rather avoid too much limiting during tracking so one mic split between multiple pre's is the best solution IMO. This is a common technique used during location sound recording for movies where the sound levels can be very unpredictable and have large dynamic variations.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 13, 2016 16:08:20 GMT -6
Hire a pro and that problem is solved. Some people have no business getting in front of a microphonne. Bit difficult when she IS the paying client and not a hired singer. Her songs are good and her voice is actually good but her dynamic control is the issue.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 13, 2016 16:12:17 GMT -6
I will also record with just a mic and preamp capture so that the singer doesn't get smashed sounding vocals that you cant do anything with in post. With Cubase, I can just bring up quiet parts and bring down loud parts before inserting eq and compression. It only takes a few minutes. This makes the comp work a lot less hard and the vocal will sound way less stressed at mix time. Just my way of doing things. Tried this by setting the gain for the maximum level but then she wanted more level in her cans during the quiet parts. Had to ride her headphone cue send.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 13, 2016 16:15:45 GMT -6
How about this: Tell the singer to control his/her loudness. Like backing off the mic during the louder parts. Once can dream..... She was backing off but the dynamics were still too variable overall.
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Post by Guitar on Jun 13, 2016 16:30:05 GMT -6
I don't know if this is too much for the song, but this is basically the David Bowie - Heroes technique. Three mics at very different distances, mute and solo on different volume of the vocal part. That is such a cool sound. So on the loudest parts you are only hearing a room mic, and the closest one is the close vocal, and there's one also at a mid-distance.
I love the sound of room on a loud lead vocal. I guess I would go with nobtwiddler's technique otherwise. I would use a Cinemag mic splitting transformer, they are about $50 but you've got to solder them up yourself. Or maybe you even have a mic that sounds better on the loud parts, you could just set up two mic chains in near-coincident alignment.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 13, 2016 16:30:30 GMT -6
1 mic split to 2 preamps. Each mic pre set accordingly as to capture both loud & soft parts with no problems. Record 2 tracks at once, one at a decent level the other at -20, 30 or whatever works. Can level out tracks and parts after the fact. This way, no overloads, no distortion, and no problems, etc. Are you doing this with condensers or just with dynamics and/or ribbons? Because there's the issue of phantom power for almost all solid state condenser microphones... and that would mean having to get an additional piece of equipment: a Phantom Power Supply like the Neumann N452. You must have the microphone's power requirements supplied before you hit the splitter. And that Neumann N452 will set you back $450 at least. Of course, you could pick up a Neumann M80 or similar AKG P48 supply but I've not had the best success using one those cheaper older external phantom power supplies. OK, so I think theres a question in there somewhere.... No problem with most modern transformer splitters, They have been used for years in live and broadcast, as long as you know who gets the straight single and provides phantom! Most quality splitters will be set up to block phantom from the other pres!
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Post by rowmat on Jun 13, 2016 16:38:59 GMT -6
Hire a pro and that problem is solved. Some people have no business getting in front of a microphonne. We don't always get to pick and choose our clients, Jim. Sometimes you get a lemon to deal with. She's actually a good kid and her songs are good. She has a good voice but the dynamics were the issue. The plan was to track three songs in two days (drums, bass, guitars, keys, vox) which seemed pretty straightforward but it turned out there's a lot of layered vocal parts, harmonys, BV's etc. She had two female backing vocalists come in on the second day and had to teach them their parts during the session which took a couple of hours. With so many vocal parts she realised she was running out of time and was trying to smash her own vocals out in a hurry before the session finished. We had to convince her that she was not going to get a good vocal recording unless we recorded the loud and soft sections seperately. She was worried about the time that would take and the cost. She has now booked another day to finish off her vocals but I can still see she is being optimistic about additional BV's and instrumental overdubs she wants to now record on the same day as her final lead vocals. It's not uncommon for musicians to have somewhat unrealistic expectations about the time and cost involved of recording when they haven't spent much time in a studio.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 13, 2016 16:44:39 GMT -6
Are you doing this with condensers or just with dynamics and/or ribbons? Because there's the issue of phantom power for almost all solid state condenser microphones... and that would mean having to get an additional piece of equipment: a Phantom Power Supply like the Neumann N452. You must have the microphone's power requirements supplied before you hit the splitter. And that Neumann N452 will set you back $450 at least. Of course, you could pick up a Neumann M80 or similar AKG P48 supply but I've not had the best success using one those cheaper older external phantom power supplies. OK, so I think theres a question in there somewhere.... No problem with most modern transformer splitters, They have been used for years in live and broadcast, as long as you know who gets the straight single and provides phantom! Most quality splitters will be set up to block phantom from the other pres! I'm picking up the 3-way version of this today... www.radialeng.com/js2.phpFitted with Jensen transformers.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 13, 2016 17:04:00 GMT -6
I don't know if this is too much for the song, but this is basically the David Bowie - Heroes technique. Three mics at very different distances, mute and solo on different volume of the vocal part. That is such a cool sound. So on the loudest parts you are only hearing a room mic, and the closest one is the close vocal, and there's one also at a mid-distance. I love the sound of room on a loud lead vocal. I guess I would go with nobtwiddler's technique otherwise. I would use a Cinemag mic splitting transformer, they are about $50 but you've got to solder them up yourself. Or maybe you even have a mic that sounds better on the loud parts, you could just set up two mic chains in near-coincident alignment. For now I'm going with the splitter. www.radialeng.com/js2.phpA second mic is also an option.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 13, 2016 17:13:11 GMT -6
No problem with most modern transformer splitters, They have been used for years in live and broadcast, as long as you know who gets the straight single and provides phantom! Most quality splitters will be set up to block phantom from the other pres! I'm picking up the 3-way version of this today... www.radialeng.com/js2.phpFitted with Jensen transformers. Larger versions are the industry standard just remember the non isolated is your phantom source.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 13, 2016 17:31:23 GMT -6
Larger versions are the industry standard just remember the non isolated is your phantom source. Yeah got that. The non isolated o/p will feed the highest gain preamp.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jun 13, 2016 21:17:07 GMT -6
I've done it by using 2 mics at the same time, each into their own pre and track. LDC for quiet sections, Sm7 for screaming.
Not sure how you send to headphones, but if its ITB, all you have to do is Mute Automate the cue send for each section of the song to keep their vocal level relatively consistent from section to section.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 14, 2016 0:46:38 GMT -6
I've done it by using 2 mics at the same time, each into their own pre and track. LDC for quiet sections, Sm7 for screaming. Not sure how you send to headphones, but if its ITB, all you have to do is Mute Automate the cue send for each section of the song to keep their vocal level relatively consistent from section to section. We are hybrid with an analog console feeding the cue amp. However I'm about to install Sonarworks (headphone EQ plugin) and am looking at some kind of ITB automated cue level control feeding a dedicated pair of convertors for a custom cue mix.
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Post by rowmat on Jun 15, 2016 21:14:14 GMT -6
Another vocal tracking session today. Don't have the mic splitter yet but the session is going much smoother as she is refreshed and not rushing like she was last time. We now have a handle on the levels of each vocal section as she gave us some notes and we have been able to track each section at appropriate gains. Still a mic splitter is a good safeguard when you don't know what you're gonna get and you may not get a second chance.
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