|
|
Post by donr on May 31, 2016 20:20:40 GMT -6
Column and podcast interview with Juszkiewicz. www.forbes.com/sites/billfrezza/2014/05/26/lumber-union-protectionists-incited-swat-raid-on-my-factory-says-gibson-guitar-ceo/#24f0953a32b6>> “Henry. A SWAT team from Homeland Security just raided our factory!” “What? This must be a joke.” “No this is really serious. We got guys with guns, they put all our people out in the parking lot and won’t let us go into the plant.” “Whoa.” “What is happening?” asks Gibson Guitar CEO Henry Juszkiewicz when he arrives at his Nashville factory to question the officers. “We can’t tell you.” “What are you talking about, you can’t tell me, you can’t just come in and …” “We have a warrant!” Well, lemme see the warrant.” “We can’t show that to you because it’s sealed.” While 30 men in SWAT attire dispatched from Homeland Security and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service cart away about half a million dollars of wood and guitars, seven armed agents interrogate an employee without benefit of a lawyer. The next day Juszkiewicz receives a letter warning that he cannot touch any guitar left in the plant, under threat of being charged with a separate federal offense for each “violation,” punishable by a jail term. Up until that point Gibson had not received so much as a postcard telling the company it might be doing something wrong. Thus began a five-year saga, extensively covered by the press, with reputation-destroying leaks and shady allegations that Gibson was illegally importing wood from endangered tree species. In the end, formal charges were never filed, but the disruption to Gibson’s business and the mounting legal fees and threat of imprisonment induced Juszkiewicz to settle for $250,000—with an additional $50,000 “donation” piled on to pay off an environmental activist group. What really happened at the Nashville plant? Henry Juszkiewicz bought the troubled Gibson Guitar company in 1986. With revenues having dropped to below $10 million a year, the iconic 84-year old guitar maker was bleeding cash and on its way to bankruptcy. Since then, Juszkiewicz turned Gibson around, making it into an international powerhouse, growing at better than 20 percent a year compounded, with current annual revenues rumored to be approaching $1 billion. A great American success story? Yes, but Gibson’s very success made it a fat target for federal prosecutors, whom Juszkiewicz alleges were operating at the behest of lumber unions and environmental pressure groups seeking to kill the market for lumber imports. “This case was not about conservation,” he says. “It was basically protectionism.” Two months before the raid, lobbyists slipped some arcane supply-chain reporting provisions into an extension of the Lacey Act of 1900 that changed the technical definition of “fingerboard blanks,” which are legal to import. With no clear legal standards, a sealed warrant the company has not been allowed to see too this day, no formal charges filed, and the threat of a prison term hanging over any executive who does not take “due care” to abide by this absurdly vague law, Gibson settled. “You’re fighting a very well organized political machine in the unions,” Juszkiewicz concluded. “And the conservation guys have sort of gone along.” Hey, what’s not to like about $50,000? . . .<< |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on May 31, 2016 20:24:16 GMT -6
That whole thing is so ridiculous to me. It's a ****ing tree...plant another one.
|
|
|
|
Post by yotonic on May 31, 2016 23:38:37 GMT -6
This sort of thing happens more often in the US to businesses of various size and scale, than folks are aware of. Once that wall gets built Gibson will be huge again.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jun 1, 2016 5:36:43 GMT -6
There was a fair bit of government dept job justification going on here too. You see it all the time with those types. And unions have outlived their usefulness.
|
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Jun 1, 2016 5:58:01 GMT -6
"Gibson Guitar Corp. has agreed to pay a fine for illegally importing exotic wood from Madagascar and India, the U.S. government said Monday. Gibson will pay a $300,000 penalty to avoid criminal charges for importing ebony and rosewood in violation of the Lacey Act, which prohibits the acquisition of plant products that are protected in other countries, the Department of Justice said in a statement." money.cnn.com/2012/08/06/news/companies/gibson-imports-wood/The government- or at least the Obama government- will prosecute corporations if you break the law. I know this because our family company, despite the law prohibiting it, imported Chinese aluminum when it was illegal. They seized the ship that was carrying the illegal aluminum to us and other manufacturers. We got fined and settled. I will add this: Our firm was advised to ignore the law by a Washington law firm led by a former commerce official. So we did and paid the price. We sued the law firm and got a big cash setlement. Perhaps Gibson got the similar bad advice. |
|
|
|
Post by kilroyrock on Jun 1, 2016 6:17:16 GMT -6
I think you should listen to the podcast. He's pretty clear about the absurdity. It's actually very similar to a lot of the land rights issues out west. There's an agenda where some guy is getting paid to serve the interests of a private party. He wasn't able to face his accuser, had no speedy trial, and was prosecuted under a foreign law that doesn't exist on U.S. law books. He wasn't doing anything different than had been done for 40 years. His point was that this was to make it more difficult to buy foreign wood, and make people buy U.S. wood. When it comes to Mahogany, you cannot buy that wood in the U.S, because it is not a U.S. tree species. He settled to save millions in fighting this. When people have fought this and won, they get slapped by something else afterwards. You cannot win. 50k of that fine was given to a private interest group that shouldn't have had anything to do with "illegal wood importing".
Like I said, it's worth listening to. It's funny hearing rich corporate guys sounding like conspiracy theorists.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 1, 2016 6:20:13 GMT -6
There was a fair bit of government dept job justification going on here too. You see it all the time with those types. And unions have outlived their usefulness. While I desperately wouldn't want to join a union, boy, songwriters could use one...and ASCAP and BMI aren't a union...they're just a collection agencies that are crooked themselves. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 1, 2016 6:22:35 GMT -6
"Gibson Guitar Corp. has agreed to pay a fine for illegally importing exotic wood from Madagascar and India, the U.S. government said Monday. Gibson will pay a $300,000 penalty to avoid criminal charges for importing ebony and rosewood in violation of the Lacey Act, which prohibits the acquisition of plant products that are protected in other countries, the Department of Justice said in a statement." money.cnn.com/2012/08/06/news/companies/gibson-imports-wood/The government- or at least the Obama government- will prosecute corporations if you break the law. I know this because our family company, despite the law prohibiting it, imported Chinese aluminum when it was illegal. They seized the ship that was carrying the illegal aluminum to us and other manufacturers. We got fined and settled. I will add this: Our firm was advised to ignore the law by a Washington law firm led by a former commerce official. So we did and paid the price. We sued the law firm and got a big cash setlement. Perhaps Gibson got the similar bad advice. I would question a law firm that encouraged you to break the law. |
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Jun 1, 2016 6:32:31 GMT -6
I think you should listen to the podcast. He's pretty clear about the absurdity. It's actually very similar to a lot of the land rights issues out west. There's an agenda where some guy is getting paid to serve the interests of a private party. He wasn't able to face his accuser, had no speedy trial, and was prosecuted under a foreign law that doesn't exist on U.S. law books. He wasn't doing anything different than had been done for 40 years. His point was that this was to make it more difficult to buy foreign wood, and make people buy U.S. wood. When it comes to Mahogany, you cannot buy that wood in the U.S, because it is not a U.S. tree species. He settled to save millions in fighting this. When people have fought this and won, they get slapped by something else afterwards. You cannot win. 50k of that fine was given to a private interest group that shouldn't have had anything to do with "illegal wood importing". Like I said, it's worth listening to. It's funny hearing rich corporate guys sounding like conspiracy theorists. All I'm saying is if you are a corporation and break the law you will be prosecuted. After that, it becomes political and I'm not interested in going there. Here's the other side's story regarding Gibson: Gibson Guitars and Feds Settle in Illegal Wood Case |
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Jun 1, 2016 6:36:58 GMT -6
"Gibson Guitar Corp. has agreed to pay a fine for illegally importing exotic wood from Madagascar and India, the U.S. government said Monday. Gibson will pay a $300,000 penalty to avoid criminal charges for importing ebony and rosewood in violation of the Lacey Act, which prohibits the acquisition of plant products that are protected in other countries, the Department of Justice said in a statement." money.cnn.com/2012/08/06/news/companies/gibson-imports-wood/The government- or at least the Obama government- will prosecute corporations if you break the law. I know this because our family company, despite the law prohibiting it, imported Chinese aluminum when it was illegal. They seized the ship that was carrying the illegal aluminum to us and other manufacturers. We got fined and settled. I will add this: Our firm was advised to ignore the law by a Washington law firm led by a former commerce official. So we did and paid the price. We sued the law firm and got a big cash setlement. Perhaps Gibson got the similar bad advice. I would question a law firm that encouraged you to break the law. Me too. I'm a shareholder and not management. I was amazed and disappointing when I heard we did it. The argument was "everybody else will ignore the law and we'll lose business buying more expensive aluminum". Everybody that ignored the law got fined. The silver lining was that our settlement with the law firm was almost as large as the fine. The problem is that other administrations come in and don't enforce laws. So, it's a political game. |
|
|
|
Post by kilroyrock on Jun 1, 2016 7:15:42 GMT -6
There was a fair bit of government dept job justification going on here too. You see it all the time with those types. And unions have outlived their usefulness. While I desperately wouldn't want to join a union, boy, songwriters could use one...and ASCAP and BMI aren't a union...they're just a collection agencies that are crooked themselves. I really want to start an IT workers union for a similar reason. Software developers on a whole are introverted or passive. The older I get, the higher up I go, and I hear people bragging about how they take advantage of their insecurity to stand up for themselves when discussing compensation and pay increases. Someone to speak up for those that either don't have the time or the training to argue collectively? Sounds okay to me. Unions take things too far a lot now too. There should be a time limit on an industry that a union can be together. Long enough to fix the problems, but then disbands once goals are reached. |
|
|
|
Post by kilroyrock on Jun 1, 2016 7:28:16 GMT -6
All I'm saying is if you are a corporation and break the law you will be prosecuted. After that, it becomes political and I'm not interested in going there. Here's the other side's story regarding Gibson: Gibson Guitars and Feds Settle in Illegal Wood Case
So I reach the other side, and it's still a load of bologna. They didn't agree with the thickness of the fingerboard wood coming out, because they wanted the wood to be "finished" in-country. There was no issue with "illegal logging". They wanted more cuts of the profits. It was finished, but "not enough" of a finish. Why did the national fish and wildlife foundation (private group) get money out of this? How does that make any sense?
U.S. govt felt like "standing up for the little guy", but they don't recognize the laws of the little guy every other day, including recognizing whether Madagascar's government is actually "real". Mother jones' article is spitting out a very "read the headline and keep moving" story. That lacey law was changed 2 months prior to the seizure, and was written to be vague on purpose. I don't know how long it takes to make wood product, purchase wood, and ship wood across the world, but I guarantee you it doesn't take a week to do it.
I'm sorry your family's company knowingly broke the law, purposefully buying illegal aluminum, but I think we're comparing similar but different apples here.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 1, 2016 7:31:02 GMT -6
Problem with unions is that they are usually end up corrupt and are more of a burden than a help. But in a time that Songwriters are literally paid like sweat shop workers, I see a valid reason for one.
|
|
|
|
Post by aremos on Jun 1, 2016 8:01:33 GMT -6
I remember when it happened and didn't surprise me because of the Obama Administration being behind it.
|
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Jun 1, 2016 8:29:17 GMT -6
All I'm saying is if you are a corporation and break the law you will be prosecuted. After that, it becomes political and I'm not interested in going there. Here's the other side's story regarding Gibson: Gibson Guitars and Feds Settle in Illegal Wood Case
So I reach the other side, and it's still a load of bologna. They didn't agree with the thickness of the fingerboard wood coming out, because they wanted the wood to be "finished" in-country. There was no issue with "illegal logging". They wanted more cuts of the profits. It was finished, but "not enough" of a finish. Why did the national fish and wildlife foundation (private group) get money out of this? How does that make any sense?
U.S. govt felt like "standing up for the little guy", but they don't recognize the laws of the little guy every other day, including recognizing whether Madagascar's government is actually "real". Mother jones' article is spitting out a very "read the headline and keep moving" story. That lacey law was changed 2 months prior to the seizure, and was written to be vague on purpose. I don't know how long it takes to make wood product, purchase wood, and ship wood across the world, but I guarantee you it doesn't take a week to do it.
I'm sorry your family's company knowingly broke the law, purposefully buying illegal aluminum, but I think we're comparing similar but different apples here.
Your pissed at the US government? Fine by me. Gibson was fined and settled and has ceased acquisitions of wood species from Madagascar. I think that's a good thin. You don't. Let's agree to disagree. |
|
|
|
Post by kilroyrock on Jun 1, 2016 9:04:41 GMT -6
I'm always pissed at the government  It's my favorite part of being an American! Agreeing to disagree confirmed. Now back to John with traffic! |
|
|
|
Post by donr on Jun 1, 2016 9:06:03 GMT -6
I suspect Gibson was targeted because of Juszkiewicz. He probably ruffled some feathers somewhere in DC, or he was harrassed as a favor to someone or some other entity. We'll never know. Gibson was buying ebony fingerboard blanks from Madagascar, and the guys with guns were Homeland Security and the Fish And Wildlife Service, not state police, sherrif or federal marshals. Madagascar was fine with the transaction, but the alphabet executive branch agency made a determination that the fingerboard blanks weren't "finished" enough for importation.
If you've ever been to a guitar company's wood stockroom, no fingerboard blank is "finished." it's a piece of wood in the rough dimension of a fingerboard, but it's completed for the specific instrument being built. Fish and Wildlife could have raided C.F. Martin or Taylor, but they didn't. And, how many guitar fingerboards could be made from the rosewood of ONE corporate boardroom, or 4 star hotel lobby?
What's gross about this is the absolute power Washington has over all of us, power wielded by unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats, and the reality that we are all breaking laws and/or regulations that we could be harrassed and arrested for every day. A business as big as Gibson must make a constant and good faith effort to comply with regulation and law. In this case, it appears the goal post was moved by Washington.
I've got my gripes with Gibson under Juszkiewicz but I'm sympathetic in this instance. The irony is the fines in this case and the story Frank told about his family's business don't come near the cost taxpayers paid to persecute them. Lacey Act, my ace.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimwilliams on Jun 1, 2016 9:20:17 GMT -6
Pure political payback by the corrupt Obama adminstration. The enviromental lobby targets certain companies then the Justice Dept. goes after them.
This wouldn't be so bad if the strict enforcement of these laws was universally applied. But it isn't, it's used as a political enforcement tool. Other laws are ignored or illegally overwritten by unconstitutional executive "orders" like the executive orders to ignore US immigration laws.
Several of Obama's executive orders are also under judicial review. So far he has lost every case. His rule cannot end soon enough.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,952 
|
Post by ericn on Jun 1, 2016 10:38:57 GMT -6
Two sides to a story reported in the press, in my personal experience of being in the press they get about 50% right. The hard part is to figure out what each presentation got right and wrong, good luck with that.
The truth is somewhere in the middle.
My wood guy, yeah I have a rare wood guy, tells me everybody knows it's illegal to buy from these countries, but everybody knows these governments are so corrupt that illegal simply means you have to bribe somebody and everybody knows who will take the bribe.
Most of the guys in the rare wood biz get the fact that these people are out to make a quick buck and could care less that when they go in and cut these protected trees, they are ruining people's homes, speeding up the extinction of not only some of these rare woods and species. Growing up in Northern WI paper country, your taught from birth the lessons learned about conservation and sustainable management, planting another tree won't work if some idiot is going to trample on it cutting the rare mature tree that's protecting it!
The only way your going to have these rare woods in the future is if the foreste are managed.
Look at it this way if you want new guitars to be built out of decent sounding tone woods this is the way it needs to be unless you like the sound of birch ply, that they can grow quickly.
As far as the SWAT team raids, well my wood guy tell's me that's because in the past when they would show up at places all nice and stuff guys would pull AK's and AR15's! Who likes being shot!
As far as it being Gibson, well the little guys were pissed that the Goverment only went after the little guys and the people Gibson was dealing with Couldn't keep their mouths shut!
Even if Gibson wasn't buying illegal wood they did nothing for years to shut down the Guys who were saying Gibson was buying from them!
Oh my wood guy showed me the paper trail on a leagle shipment of Ebony !
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 1, 2016 10:39:01 GMT -6
Why was I able to buy a Madagascar Rosewood back and sides Martin?
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,952
|
Post by ericn on Jun 1, 2016 11:10:48 GMT -6
Why was I able to buy a Madagascar Rosewood back and sides Martin? Some of the wood is permitted to be harvested and exported it varies, some suddenly becomes wood from a another country when it's smuggled in to another country becomes "wood from China " then after at least on paper moves 2 or 3 times then suddenly becomes wood from the original source! One of Martins vendors was raided a year or 2 ago. Martin keeps its hands Clean buy buying a lot of its wood from others who import it and tries to make sure all the paperwork is legit to the best of their knowledge! They could do DNA like testing on every log or blank imported but it would add time and big bucks, and frankly if it's as good as the test that said my 35 pound stray that looks like a cross between a Doberman, German shorthair is 100% lab, well I lost my confidence in DNA testing, then again I guy Who worked on the human genome project admitted "hell yeah we got some stuff wrong"! |
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Jun 1, 2016 11:32:11 GMT -6
FWIW unions are no more inherently corrupt than corporations. Politicians often try to peddle the idea one is more corrupt than the other. Corruption is a huge problem that must be treated as a crime and not an inherent property of anything.
|
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,952
|
Post by ericn on Jun 1, 2016 11:38:48 GMT -6
FWIW unions are no more inherently corrupt than corporations. Politicians often try to peddle the idea one is more corrupt than the other. Corruption is a huge problem that must be treated as a crime and not an inherent property of anything. Bob as I read this I suddenly had John kennings Imagine playing in my head! |
|
|
|
Post by NoFilterChuck on Jun 2, 2016 2:06:33 GMT -6
Y'all are just gonna skim over the fact that the company rep came back from his trip to the supplier country and told em "you cant buy from these guys, its illegal" yet they bought 4 more shipments over the next year or so?
The law is there so that particular tree species doesnt go extinct (due to over-harvesting so you can have a fancy guitar (that you can play on your next singer songwriter soundcloud link that no one will buy cuz you put it on soundcloud for free (and cuz someone else stole it and put it on youtube without your permission lol))). Solution: play keyboards or horns!
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Jun 2, 2016 8:57:28 GMT -6
Y'all are just gonna skim over the fact that the company rep came back from his trip to the supplier country and told em "you cant buy from these guys, its illegal" yet they bought 4 more shipments over the next year or so? The law is there so that particular tree species doesnt go extinct (due to over-harvesting so you can have a fancy guitar (that you can play on your next singer songwriter soundcloud link that no one will buy cuz you put it on soundcloud for free (and cuz someone else stole it and put it on youtube without your permission lol))). Solution: play keyboards or horns! Says who? You? |
|
It's my favorite part of being an American! Agreeing to disagree confirmed. Now back to John with traffic!
