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Post by category5 on Feb 27, 2016 8:44:18 GMT -6
Speaking of the Sympony, I don't want mine to sound any different than it does. Can't imagine they'd want to change the way it sounds. Yeah, it's very dangerous to alter something as universally highly regarded as the Symphony. Remember when Coke decided to "improve" their formula. That said, I trust Apogee not to take a backward step regarding conversion. I do think the Burr Brown preamps from their last generation interfaces are smoother than the THAT "upgrade" on the new line, but the THAT chips are very good as well and I'm sure plenty prefer them too. As for the MOTU stuff, no I haven't heard it. MOTU has a great track record though, so if they are using the Sabre 8 channel DAC, I am sure their implementation is clean and sounds great. The same for UA's 16ch Apollo. AKM is proud of their latest design though, and their reps seem to think their new DACs (4490) are superior to the ESS chip (even though dynamic range and noise performance are lower based on measurements). Also, we know implementation is at least as important. The Burl AD and DA use last generation AKM chips, so you see the performance is there in the presence of a good design. Glad you like the BF John. I think UA knew there was some room for improvement, and with stiff competition from Apogee, MOTU, RME, etc. at the same price point, they knew some refinement would re-invigorate the line. I've yet to get a sample of the 16 from UA, though they agreed to send me one, so for now the improvement in the DA is theoretical as far as I'm concerned. The guys that populate RGO have some pretty good ears though, so as always, if you like the sound...
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Post by jeremygillespie on Feb 27, 2016 11:49:19 GMT -6
Has anybody done the VintageKing trade in offer to upgrade their silverface to a blackface?
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Post by ragan on Feb 27, 2016 12:06:58 GMT -6
Has anybody done the VintageKing trade in offer to upgrade their silverface to a blackface? Last I heard from VK it was long over. The rep told me they had too many SF's sitting around. The price they offered me was a few hundred less than I got selling it myself, as you'd expect.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Feb 27, 2016 12:40:30 GMT -6
Ahh okay - I just got an email this morning saying they are starting up the "deal" again.
How much of a pain was it to transfer your plugs?
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 27, 2016 12:45:05 GMT -6
Transferring plugs is dead easy as you the owner direct ua cs using the online form in your account. You check whether you are transferring all plugs meaning those that came with it and what you purchased or none: meaning your purchased authorizations stay in your account. I did way better selling privately.
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Post by ragan on Feb 27, 2016 12:59:37 GMT -6
Ahh okay - I just got an email this morning saying they are starting up the "deal" again. How much of a pain was it to transfer your plugs? Yeah it's easy. The purchaser of your SF Apollo will automatically get the 'analog classics' bundle (at least that's what it was when I sold mine). The buyer just needs to create a UAD account and you submit their email as the new owner of your SF Apollo. That's it.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 27, 2016 13:47:01 GMT -6
I signed up for it, but didn't get a quote back. I think it's a ridiculously low offer, though.
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Post by popmann on Feb 27, 2016 15:50:51 GMT -6
Actually, the ADC uses the same chip as the Avid blueface 192s. Nearly what 15 years old now?
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 27, 2016 20:18:20 GMT -6
The new deal from UAD is not the one where if you bought an Apollo, you get a satellite. I'm crossing my fingers they do it again, but I doubt it. UAD doesn't seem to repeat deals the same way, if memory serves.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Feb 27, 2016 20:49:58 GMT -6
Speaking of the Sympony, I don't want mine to sound any different than it does. Can't imagine they'd want to change the way it sounds. Yeah, it's very dangerous to alter something as universally highly regarded as the Symphony. Remember when Coke decided to "improve" their formula. That said, I trust Apogee not to take a backward step regarding conversion. I do think the Burr Brown preamps from their last generation interfaces are smoother than the THAT "upgrade" on the new line, but the THAT chips are very good as well and I'm sure plenty prefer them too. As for the MOTU stuff, no I haven't heard it. MOTU has a great track record though, so if they are using the Sabre 8 channel DAC, I am sure their implementation is clean and sounds great. The same for UA's 16ch Apollo. AKM is proud of their latest design though, and their reps seem to think their new DACs (4490) are superior to the ESS chip (even though dynamic range and noise performance are lower based on measurements). Also, we know implementation is at least as important. The Burl AD and DA use last generation AKM chips, so you see the performance is there in the presence of a good design. Glad you like the BF John. I think UA knew there was some room for improvement, and with stiff competition from Apogee, MOTU, RME, etc. at the same price point, they knew some refinement would re-invigorate the line. I've yet to get a sample of the 16 from UA, though they agreed to send me one, so for now the improvement in the DA is theoretical as far as I'm concerned. The guys that populate RGO have some pretty good ears though, so as always, if you like the sound... I want my symphony to sound different from how it sounds now! I want it to not have any fan noise!!!! :-( thats reason enough to replace it with a new one! Metric halo doesnt have fans, UA doesnt have fans, nothin in motu or lavry(?)! Cmon son! I guess if you want the old symphony sound, use old modules in the new chassis, since thats where the audio is handled..
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 28, 2016 12:28:31 GMT -6
Can you just diconnect the fan?
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Feb 28, 2016 13:29:31 GMT -6
Can you just diconnect the fan? i've done that in the past, but the unit becomes so hot to the touch. i measured it with a multimeter and the front panel was around 130F+ without the fan. With the fan, it's around 115F or so. I didn't worry about how the components would be affected, but seeing as some folks chimed in saying it might cause components to fail prematurely if they're subjected to that heat constantly, i reconnected the fan. Also, this thing sits on top of my desk and acts like a miniature heat lamp when the fan is disconnected lol. Definitely raises the ambient temperature!!
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Post by tonycamphd on Feb 28, 2016 16:28:25 GMT -6
Can you just diconnect the fan? i've done that in the past, but the unit becomes so hot to the touch. i measured it with a multimeter and the front panel was around 130F+ without the fan. With the fan, it's around 115F or so. I didn't worry about how the components would be affected, but seeing as some folks chimed in saying it might cause components to fail prematurely if they're subjected to that heat constantly, i reconnected the fan. Also, this thing sits on top of my desk and acts like a miniature heat lamp when the fan is disconnected lol. Definitely raises the ambient temperature!! what about replacing it with one of those super quiet high end computer fans... "silenex" or something?
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 28, 2016 18:18:07 GMT -6
Actually, the ADC uses the same chip as the Avid blueface 192s. Nearly what 15 years old now? It's not the chip in the Burl. Of this I'm sure. It's the kick ass analog path. Think of it as Grandpas old Chili recipe. It may not be the newest or the latest fad, but by God, it's the best damn Chili ever because grandpa got the ingredients just right. Please don't change it Grandpa!! LOL
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 28, 2016 18:21:27 GMT -6
Yeah, it's very dangerous to alter something as universally highly regarded as the Symphony. Remember when Coke decided to "improve" their formula. That said, I trust Apogee not to take a backward step regarding conversion. I do think the Burr Brown preamps from their last generation interfaces are smoother than the THAT "upgrade" on the new line, but the THAT chips are very good as well and I'm sure plenty prefer them too. As for the MOTU stuff, no I haven't heard it. MOTU has a great track record though, so if they are using the Sabre 8 channel DAC, I am sure their implementation is clean and sounds great. The same for UA's 16ch Apollo. AKM is proud of their latest design though, and their reps seem to think their new DACs (4490) are superior to the ESS chip (even though dynamic range and noise performance are lower based on measurements). Also, we know implementation is at least as important. The Burl AD and DA use last generation AKM chips, so you see the performance is there in the presence of a good design. Glad you like the BF John. I think UA knew there was some room for improvement, and with stiff competition from Apogee, MOTU, RME, etc. at the same price point, they knew some refinement would re-invigorate the line. I've yet to get a sample of the 16 from UA, though they agreed to send me one, so for now the improvement in the DA is theoretical as far as I'm concerned. The guys that populate RGO have some pretty good ears though, so as always, if you like the sound... I want my symphony to sound different from how it sounds now! I want it to not have any fan noise!!!! :-( thats reason enough to replace it with a new one! Metric halo doesnt have fans, UA doesnt have fans, nothin in motu or lavry(?)! Cmon son! I guess if you want the old symphony sound, use old modules in the new chassis, since thats where the audio is handled.. Unplug that damn fan Chuck!! You won't hurt it. These things are a lot more hearty than we give them credit. But if you're worried about that, rig up a simple quite computer fan to pass air constantly. If you can build pres and other hardware, you surely can do that, right?
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Post by Quint on Feb 28, 2016 20:34:45 GMT -6
Actually, the ADC uses the same chip as the Avid blueface 192s. Nearly what 15 years old now? It's not the chip in the Burl. Of this I'm sure. It's the kick ass analog path. Think of it as Grandpas old Chili recipe. It may not be the newest or the latest fad, but by God, it's the best damn Chili ever because grandpa got the ingredients just right. Please don't change it Grandpa!! LOL I agree with you on the analog path and layout being such an important component. Though that begs the question of when a converter chip is simply good enough? I have a 2192 and love it and the converter chips in it are a decade old. It's kind of like with new Apollos. People are clamoring for the latest ESS chips in the BF 16 but I have to wonder if the improvements people are hearing don't have mostly to do with board redesign and analog component or power upgrades particular to the BF 16 versus the BF 8 and/or the older SF Apollos. It seems like ad/da chips are pretty mature at this point and it's all of the analog and power components around them that truly make a difference at this point in the digital conversion game.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Feb 28, 2016 21:35:10 GMT -6
It's not the chip in the Burl. Of this I'm sure. It's the kick ass analog path. Think of it as Grandpas old Chili recipe. It may not be the newest or the latest fad, but by God, it's the best damn Chili ever because grandpa got the ingredients just right. Please don't change it Grandpa!! LOL I agree with you on the analog path and layout being such an important component. Though that begs the question of when a converter chip is simply good enough? I have a 2192 and love it and the converter chips in it are a decade old. It's kind of like with new Apollos. People are clamoring for the latest ESS chips in the BF 16 but I have to wonder if the improvements people are hearing don't have mostly to do with board redesign and analog component or power upgrades particular to the BF 16 versus the BF 8 and/or the older SF Apollos. It seems like ad/da chips are pretty mature at this point and it's all of the analog and power components around them that truly make a difference at this point in the digital conversion game. That's what I think too. I'm no tech guy by any stretch but it seems to me that since digital is no new technology, we've had time enough to get a great result out of chips. The design of a box seems to me to be the key. Take our ole buddy Svart. He designed his own converter and it sounds damn good. He didn't reinvent the wheel or anything. Just tried his own recipe. And it worked. And another thing fellas, keep in mind that these solid companies have to change shit in order to sell new gear. A lot of it is marketing, lets face it. And who can blame them? I'd do the same if it were my company.
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Post by Quint on Feb 28, 2016 21:46:10 GMT -6
I agree with you on the analog path and layout being such an important component. Though that begs the question of when a converter chip is simply good enough? I have a 2192 and love it and the converter chips in it are a decade old. It's kind of like with new Apollos. People are clamoring for the latest ESS chips in the BF 16 but I have to wonder if the improvements people are hearing don't have mostly to do with board redesign and analog component or power upgrades particular to the BF 16 versus the BF 8 and/or the older SF Apollos. It seems like ad/da chips are pretty mature at this point and it's all of the analog and power components around them that truly make a difference at this point in the digital conversion game. That's what I think too. I'm no tech guy by any stretch but it seems to me that since digital is no new technology, we've had time enough to get a great result out of chips. The design of a box seems to me to be the key. Take our ole buddy Svart. He designed his own converter and it sounds damn good. He didn't reinvent the wheel or anything. Just tried his own recipe. And it worked. And another thing fellas, keep in mind that these solid companies have to change shit in order to sell new gear. A lot of it is marketing, lets face it. And who can blame them? I'd do the same if it were my company. Agreed. At this point I'd probably be happy with any conversion past a reasonable threshold of quality. I think the last major frontier in converter design at this point is in quality power supply at a decent price point. Not that such capability doesn't already exist. It's about squeezing those last few ounces out so that a brute force power supply doesn't cost quite as much.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 28, 2016 21:52:49 GMT -6
The Apollo needed a converter upgrade, though, just to reach the same sonic class level as some of the others.
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Post by Quint on Feb 28, 2016 22:02:06 GMT -6
The Apollo needed a converter upgrade, though, just to reach the same sonic class level as some of the others. Granted, I haven't heard the BF so I can't speak directly on the matter. But I wonder how much of the improvement is due to upgrades on the analog side versus the converter chips themselves? More than one variable has changed so it's harder to pinpoint but I do do question how much the converter chip itself is responsible for perceived improvements. I mean, the Burl is a prime example of design over bleeding edge chip design... as well as others like the 2192...
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Post by ragan on Feb 28, 2016 22:10:17 GMT -6
The Apollo needed a converter upgrade, though, just to reach the same sonic class level as some of the others. Granted, I haven't heard the BF so I can't speak directly on the matter. But I wonder how much of the improvement is due to upgrades on the analog side versus the converter chips themselves? More than one variable has changed so it's harder to pinpoint but I do do question how much the converter chip itself is responsible for perceived improvements. I mean, the Burl is a prime example of design over bleeding edge chip design... as well as others like the 2192... It's a good question. category5 would be the guy to ask I think. It's definitely a significant improvement though, whatever the cause. I had them next to each other for a week or so, really wanting to return the BF. It was enough of an improvement that I had to keep it.
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 29, 2016 5:05:52 GMT -6
On the apollo side it's important to distinguish between the original and the bf (8 + 16), as the entire internal signal path was redesigned including new converters, plus the 16 has the best da. Personally,I think the new bf sounds more linear and better than the stock sf and it with the bla mod so the new bf is very good value. If you shop carefully you can get a new bf 8 with quad dsp for $2g's usd. It's a good tool and value if you are using ua plugs.
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Post by drumrec on Mar 2, 2016 8:04:33 GMT -6
My Apollo 16 blackface has been in my drum room since two months back and and I have nothing bad to say about it. What was most significantly different from the Apollo quad silverface was that it is more solid in the botten frek and a more open sound. Will sell my Apollo Quad silverface to buy one or two more Apollo 16 blackface, love it!. Now I'm just waiting Satellite tb as you would get with the purchase
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 2, 2016 8:26:53 GMT -6
People who are directly comparing uniformly indicate that the BF 16 is the best sounding Apollo so far.
Still don't understand why UA didn't make the best DA available on the new bf8 ?
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Mar 2, 2016 17:02:38 GMT -6
probably because they're tailored to different markets.
BF8 is most likely meant for bedroom producers and home studio folks. the BF16 is gonna be targeted towards folks with a bunch of outboard gear, who are most likely guys running pro or semi-pro studios that don't need more than 16 channels. Small-to-medium sized post-production studios, for example.
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