|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2016 17:16:03 GMT -6
Nice! I'm gonna work on it here more tonight. But ran a session out through the summing and I gotta say...there's a difference. It definitely adds some separation and dimension to the mix. I would say 5-10% better. And in our realm of money for small increments, that's a lot. I didn't particularly think the lows were particularly punchier...maybe the top was a little smoother...mostly heard the difference in the width and depth - imaging. I assume having more channels allows for even better results. Maybe someone could address that. Anyway, I'm going to have a before and after if anyone is interested...I could post. BTW, I'm printing back in through the Svartbox. I should mention that when I had a Burl B2, I used to print back in to go back through the Burl again and push the trannys. The D-Box - IMHO - gives me more of what I was looking for as I'm more interested in getting the dimension of a console as opposed to the taming of transients from tranny's. So - how's the DA compared to the Svartbox? So far, I find them VERY similar. The D-Box seems a little more mid forward to me, but I can't tell if that's because that's what's there or if it's just a little mid forward. Start absolutely outdid himself with that box. EDIT : So - here we go. Give an honest answer...I'm not concerned if it ends up one way or the other. 24/88.2 One is an ITB mix and the other is completely summed through the D-Box. Never Bounced. I do hear a difference...albeit slight. Mix A - www.dropbox.com/s/owxkbgcj6lse864/MIX%20A.wav?dl=0Mix B - www.dropbox.com/s/vt48ueryb6ixm2l/MIX%20B.wav?dl=0 |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2016 17:20:52 GMT -6
This made me REEEEEEEEAAAALLLLY want the 2 Bus+...But I would need to upgrade my Apollo to a 16 for the outs. That Paralimiter is haunting my dreams...
|
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Feb 13, 2016 17:29:45 GMT -6
I am interested in hearing it bud
cheers
Wiz
|
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Feb 13, 2016 18:11:45 GMT -6
Nice! I'm gonna work on it here more tonight. But ran a session out through the summing and I gotta say...there's a difference. It definitely adds some separation and dimension to the mix. I would say 5-10% better. And in our realm of money for small increments, that's a lot. I didn't particularly think the lows were particularly punchier...maybe the top was a little smoother...mostly heard the difference in the width and depth - imaging. I assume having more channels allows for even better results. Maybe someone could address that. Anyway, I'm going to have a before and after if anyone is interested...I could post. BTW, I'm printing back in through the Svartbox. I should mention that when I had a Burl B2, I used to print back in to go back through the Burl again and push the trannys. The D-Box - IMHO - gives me more of what I was looking for as I'm more interested in getting the dimension of a console as opposed to the taming of transients from tranny's. So - how's the DA compared to the Svartbox? So far, I find them VERY similar. The D-Box seems a little more mid forward to me, but I can't tell if that's because that's what's there or if it's just a little mid forward. Start absolutely outdid himself with that box. I have hoped to be able to sell my D Box many times and I always blind test myself on the summing and I can't let it go. I agree with your assessment. Width and depth. Not a huge difference but a significant one. Combine that with the talkback, easy multiple source switching and great DA and that little #%*$-er packs a punch. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2016 19:29:45 GMT -6
I'm gonna post two files and see if a majority of people pick one over the other. Then I'll tell. I just want to see if my listening is biased...although, it is DEF wider when it goes through the Sum and you compare the DAW and SUM mix. Now whether once it gets mastering plugs on it and bounced and dithered down it loses it's advantage - that's a good question. ragan, when you print back in, do you route that channel to the master and then bounce down there? |
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Feb 13, 2016 19:47:16 GMT -6
normally you bring the d box back into your daw on an audio channel so you can record to it as your print track. Then you can send just that track out as your bounce. You can also put your master plugs as inserts to that last audio track.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2016 20:10:52 GMT -6
Yeah, that's what I'm doing...but then you're digital summing after analog summing. Not that it really matters I guess. But I wonder if it would make any difference to sum out 8 channels, print it back in to the DAW, then apply mastering to the two track and send BACK out to two channels of summing to be printed again. Then you could just export the resulting wav skipping digital summing from the DAW altogether. That's a LOT of steps.
|
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Feb 13, 2016 20:14:43 GMT -6
Well as you have the apollo, d box and svart box ,no harm experimenting but I think you only get analogue summing from the apollo to the dbox once ? I sold my dbox about 2 years ago so my recollections might be off ?
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2016 22:20:41 GMT -6
I could totally be over-thinking this, but I'm gonna try it that way...Printing the D-Box sum back into a stereo channel, then adding all the same master processing on that channel, routing back out to two channels of the D-Box, then back in the DAW as the "Final Print." Then I'll bounce one in Cubase with same exact mastering on Master Channel. It'll be interesting!
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2016 23:43:32 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Feb 14, 2016 0:20:32 GMT -6
] ragan, when you print back in, do you route that channel to the master and then bounce down there? Yeah, I go out of the D Box sum, into a pair of Warm EQP-Wa's and then catch it with the Burl. Then I'll do all mastering stuff except the limiting and I'll bounce out and SRC and then do a separate session (at 44.1) for the final limit. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 0:31:01 GMT -6
Hey I thought Mix B sounded a bit better, not sure if that's the Dbox though, when I auditioned the 2bus I had a very tough time telling what was what with that box. Still, the Dbox is incredible value for what you get.
|
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Feb 14, 2016 8:20:24 GMT -6
I thought Mix A was a bit deeper/wider. The thing is, when people listen who are not listening for these small differences, does it matter? Personally, I think they're listening to the melody and how it affects them emotionally. Still, if I could afford it, if Mix A is the Dangerous (LOL) I'd get it.
|
|
|
|
Post by jin167 on Feb 14, 2016 8:50:06 GMT -6
Initially preferred the Mix A by a small margin but then realised that it was louder than Mix B (ran both mixes through the Izotope Insight and confirmed that Mix A is indeed louder) so I had to turn it down by 1 dB and then the differences became more subtle. I really liked both mixes but differences are too subtle for me to justify spending $1k+.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Feb 14, 2016 11:52:12 GMT -6
Yeah. Same input same mastering change...there are differences, but that was due to the summing from each.
|
|
|
|
Post by jimwilliams on Feb 14, 2016 13:25:53 GMT -6
Go to www.mouser.comand buy a pair of LME49710NA opamps, I think they still have some. Then pop them into the stereo mix opamp sockets and re-test. You will find most of that OPA134 mid forward-ness to become relaxed. IIRC, that box also had those balanced reciever/driver chips made by AD and THAT corp. Try subbing those too. |
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Feb 14, 2016 13:37:19 GMT -6
One of the biggest draws of the D-Box is the DA, right? The summing is kind of a bonus. I'm thinking you got the DA covered with the Svartbox, no? I've been thinking about getting into summing, but seeing as I already have great DA conversion, I've been looking at other pieces that may be more sonically apparent. That 2-bus+ sounds really nice. Also considering the Silver Bullet, though it's not a summing amp, per say. I'm basically looking for a console sound without actually needing a console.
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Feb 14, 2016 13:43:00 GMT -6
Go to www.mouser.comand buy a pair of LME49710NA opamps, I think they still have some. Then pop them into the stereo mix opamp sockets and re-test. You will find most of that OPA134 mid forward-ness to become relaxed. IIRC, that box also had those balanced reciever/driver chips made by AD and THAT corp. Try subbing those too. Wow - thanks, Jim!! |
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Feb 14, 2016 13:45:45 GMT -6
One of the biggest draws of the D-Box is the DA, right? The summing is kind of a bonus. I'm thinking you got the DA covered with the Svartbox, no? I've been thinking about getting into summing, but seeing as I already have great DA conversion, I've been looking at other pieces that may be more sonically apparent. That 2-bus+ sounds really nice. Also considering the Silver Bullet, though it's not a summing amp, per say. I'm basically looking for a console sound without actually needing a console. From what I'm hearing, I think the "console sound" that I wanted to hear was the extra depth and width and punchiness...seems that summing is the thing that adds that. |
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Feb 14, 2016 14:18:16 GMT -6
I had to bring B up what seemed like more than just 1db to level match by ear.
Mix A is wider, with more detail in general but especially in the bass.
Mix B is soft (in a good way) - at times I get a pleasant whiff of analog goodness and coloration going on.. it feels more compressed. I hear a dip in the 7-8k..ish range that you really notice when the vocalist sings an 's'. ..and it may fall off a little faster above that because Mix A seems to bring a little more sheen on top.
At least for this kind of music I prefer Mix A - I like the detail and accuracy.
|
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Feb 14, 2016 14:41:14 GMT -6
Couple notes. A will likely clip a lot of DAC--its overed making it approx .5db less dynamic. The level should be changed at the mix file so that they hit the "mastering" plug ins the same.
That said, quick listen says I prefer B by a lot. But, how much of the high frequency discrepancy is the clipping? There's more highs AND better highs on B. But, that's not the biggest reason for my preference...kick and snare drum are in the middle on B. Clearly....right....there. On A they fall back and sort of blur into the whole.
A has one huge advantage--her voice sounds nicer....fuller....WAY louder. I apparently saw this too late to get the actual mixes--that's what we need here. Thing is--if you mono'd out anything that can change the levels of the vocal, say--which you can KNOW comparing the mixes--but, once you put them through a mastering chain, the voice being louder will trigger everything differently and not sound the same at ALL....
Tag me so I get an email if you repost the actual mix files. But, if you want to play with them yourself flip the phase on one--its a quick way to tell if you're forgetting to compensate for a pan law when you bring a mono output out....
|
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Feb 14, 2016 15:04:14 GMT -6
mix A seems a bit more finished to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Feb 14, 2016 15:21:50 GMT -6
Different preference in the studio. Also good cautionary tale about why mixing in headphones is a useless exercise in futility. But, I was right about the technical--the levels where different prior to running mastering. You can hear the compressor altering the gain of the lead vocal pretty clearly differently on versionA---which also explains why I liked her voice on A better.
I will point out, though that I fixed the level discrepancy prior to listening in the studio, because I can....but, you can't completely fix it because the "mastering" compressor has changed balances due to something triggering it differently. But, roughly, A needs to come down .5db in volume and move -.05ms in time--time only mattering if you want them to cancel.
|
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Feb 14, 2016 15:23:03 GMT -6
BTW--changing my vote....but, still, at this point anyone is preferring the different mastering of A--not a different mix.
|
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Feb 14, 2016 15:37:22 GMT -6
Ok, firstly..I got lost in the song and the mix... I started listening to A with my propellor hat on, and then found myself getting lost in the song.... Damn... man, Okay... now, this is what I call a significant difference... Whatever B is.. keep doing that. I call that Rounder Sounding. I wanna know about the recording and mixing... whats the verbs.. who played the slide.. great mix John... cheers Wiz |
|
