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Post by mitchkricun on Jan 20, 2016 7:17:01 GMT -6
Does anyone have experience with purchasing a "flashed" Mac Pro? Basically, it's a 2009/2010 4.1 model that's been upgraded to 2012 5.1 specs. They are all over Ebay and I can get a 12 core Westmere for around $1500. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 20, 2016 7:39:14 GMT -6
Have you checked out the videos at pro tool expert about upgrading Mac Pros ?
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 20, 2016 9:00:08 GMT -6
Does anyone have experience with purchasing a "flashed" Mac Pro? Basically, it's a 2009/2010 4.1 model that's been upgraded to 2012 5.1 specs. They are all over Ebay and I can get a 12 core Westmere for around $1500. Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated. Thanks! Running a 2009 mac pro here, I upgraded from 4,1 to 5,1 firmware, went from the lower speed memory to 64gigs of 1333, I have a pair of 6 core 3.33gh CPUs I've yet to install(lazy), to go from 8 to 12 core, if the seller is legit? the rig is legit, its actually a beast! And should remain so for years... |
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Post by mitchkricun on Jan 20, 2016 9:21:44 GMT -6
Thanks guys! I appreciate the info!
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Post by popmann on Jan 20, 2016 10:35:54 GMT -6
I wouldn't do this unless you're looking for a home for an HDX or older TDM system. Then, I'd be all over this and buying extras for parts.
If you're not buying it to use PCIe audio interfaces, I don't know why you'd bother for audio production.
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Post by mitchkricun on Jan 22, 2016 6:09:35 GMT -6
I wouldn't do this unless you're looking for a home for an HDX or older TDM system. Then, I'd be all over this and buying extras for parts. If you're not buying it to use PCIe audio interfaces, I don't know why you'd bother for audio production. I do need a PCIe slot for my interface... Are you saying an iMac or laptop is enough power for audio production? Thanks! |
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Post by popmann on Jan 22, 2016 9:30:23 GMT -6
Yes, I am. But, so is a 2009 ("upgradeable" era) MPro with SSDs without needing to upgrade firmware and new CPUs and such. But, then....YMMV, I am a kind of an old school simpleton.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 22, 2016 9:33:50 GMT -6
I wouldn't do this unless you're looking for a home for an HDX or older TDM system. Then, I'd be all over this and buying extras for parts. If you're not buying it to use PCIe audio interfaces, I don't know why you'd bother for audio production. I do need a PCIe slot for my interface... Are you saying an iMac or laptop is enough power for audio production? Thanks! My early I7 MBP is as powerful as my 1st gen 8 core MP, and the Sonnet Tbolt to PCIe boxes are great. Machines like Tony's are monsters, but remember in the eyes of Apple they relics and could be locked out in any OS update, it's the risk you take! |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 22, 2016 9:49:55 GMT -6
I'm on a 15" Retina MacBook Pro, Quad Core 2 GHz i7, 16GB RAM, and 500GB SSD. Been smooth sailing here. I'm not usually running more than 30 tracks or so and mainly just mixing, but no issues for me (knock on wood).
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Post by popmann on Jan 22, 2016 11:49:36 GMT -6
Yeah, the Xeons are not actually the best real time processors....and those are OLD, making them and their accompanying chipsets and ECC RAM and drive controllers simply a big number crunch machine. The two primary advantages of the MPs and G series before for audio/music production was the ability to install multiple internal drives....and use the lowest latency and biggest bandwidth PCIE cards--bandwidth has been mostly alleviated with TB, and in the majority of PROJECT studios was never and issue. A single, fairly old lame SSD can best multiple magnetics. If latency is a big factor for you....it's a toss up--you won't beat PCIE, but you WILL beat Xeon and ECC RAM. Honestly--most everything seems to work off a dual buffer now for playing VIs. I can set my little USB on 1024 and most VIs respond nicely in Cubase. And for the record, I'm picky--I don't play mushy VIs....unless it's acoustic piano, where a little latency is actually "accurate" response. I have my Kronos set to like...,14-18ms start delay on piano patches.
Anyway....it depends on if you're trying to build the lowest latency machine, where you will need Windows anyway....or simply a machine that will handle production of audio and light VI stuff. I say light simply because of the cost of huge SSDs--if you want a whole orchestra of VSL, you're still better off with multiple internal magnetics, as you need how many TBs? Maybe a Thunderbolt drives will suffice....but, even that is expensive.
Not to mention, my Air is silent. Ironically, until I watch some HD YouTube and the fan kicks in....so, apparently, my 88.2 audio production takes less CPU than watching an ad for Slate's latest plug in to price said audio! Ha.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 22, 2016 12:06:23 GMT -6
I do need a PCIe slot for my interface... Are you saying an iMac or laptop is enough power for audio production? Thanks! My early I7 MBP is as powerful as my 1st gen 8 core MP, and the Sonnet Tbolt to PCIe boxes are great. Machines like Tony's are monsters, but remember in the eyes of Apple they relics and could be locked out in any OS update, it's the risk you take! well, the 5,1 firmware is one generation old...right? i believe the trashcan Macpro's are using 6,1? Apple wouldn't dare out people 1 or even 3 generations old, it would be committing virtual hari kari. The other thing that I didn't know until recently is, old PCIe 2.0 data transfers still best the latest and greatest Thunderbolt incarnations by significant numbers. IMO, if you are using lots of LP plugs and high oversampling rates, then gobbs of power is a great thing to have, the march 2009 or later Macpro's are still top of the line machines, and most will tell you are much better than the trashcans for custom configurability. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 22, 2016 12:33:41 GMT -6
My early I7 MBP is as powerful as my 1st gen 8 core MP, and the Sonnet Tbolt to PCIe boxes are great. Machines like Tony's are monsters, but remember in the eyes of Apple they relics and could be locked out in any OS update, it's the risk you take! well, the 5,1 firmware is one generation old...right? i believe the trashcan Macpro's are using 6,1? Apple wouldn't dare out people 1 or even 3 generations old, it would be committing virtual hari kari. The other thing that I didn't know until recently is, old PCIe 2.0 data transfers still best the latest and greatest Thunderbolt incarnations by significant numbers. IMO, if you are using lots of LP plugs and high oversampling rates, then gobbs of power is a great thing to have, the march 2009 or later Macpro's are still top of the line machines, and most will tell you are much better than the trashcans for custom configurability. Tony The thing I have learned over the years of being an Apple fan going back to the first Mac, Apple builds beautiful machines they always have some Achilles heal, some stupid design or part choice that fucks up the system at some point with their latest and greatest OS. I'm not saying it will happen Tomarrow , I'm not saying it won't be my I7 MBP first, but it will happen and the only way to buy more time with Apple is to buy new, which I have only done once with one of my old Core 2 Minis with the removable CPU. This is one of those things I think anybody who buys a non current Mac should think about before buying in, lord knows I have done it far more than most, but I believe you have to know it before you buy! |
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Post by popmann on Jan 22, 2016 14:13:06 GMT -6
My 2008 iMac has been off the supported list for several revisions now. Firmware is meaningless to longevity (positively--thye might've planted the seed that will allow them to discontinue them with firmware updates)--they haven't changed that machine since 2009. Its gonna happen. The fact that they had pretty beefy video cards and Xeons will postpone it a little longer than more consumer machines....but, I'd point out that 2012 Airs and Minis are being sold right and left used since OSX.11's release--there's no way that's a coincidence. I will bet it makes those 3 year old machines slow....live with a slow machine for a bit="feels like time to upgrade". I'm not going beyond 10.8. Sorry. Ever. We're done here. I'm actually running 10.7 on the Air and may never even do the 10.8 upgrade I downloaded and put on the iMac.
I don't know what your historical perspective of Apple is....but, as someone around during the Mac Clones....who has now seen rounds of Hackintoshs for 64bit OSX....and has personally put in third party CPU upgrades into old PPCs....I can promise you--once you step off Apple's first party ranch, you're better off with Windows, which was designed to LIVE on third party hardware. And now that updates are effectively forced....yup--Microsoft is WAY more to lose by releasing an update that tanks machines than Apple. Hell, if they forced an update that made everything crawl--their sales the next week would skyrocket until news got out that it was the update with people just going "man I need a new computer-this thing is SLOW!" Meanwhile, Microsoft would lose the business that actually makes them money--Apple is a consumer tech company who occasionally are used by businesses--Microsoft is a business tech company who also sells to consumers.
Anyway--I know people get religious about this....I just use whatever's around, so really....don't care. But, objectively, with the exceptions of adding third party ram and HDs in the past, anything else has been a nightmare and now that their business model is selling tech that isn't needed--ie, creating a perception of need....I would bet longevity actually gets shorter, rather than longer.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 22, 2016 19:34:32 GMT -6
I came from a background of building my own PC's, I'm currently using 10.10.5 OSX, PT 12.4, 2009 mac pro, with blazing performance about as good as anyone can get, so to me your speculative projections are farcical as i've lived, and am currently living a reality that reads completely the opposite. My 2009 Macpro is going seriously strong into it's 7th year of life! I bought the rig used in 2011, and completely loaded the shit out of it, and still haven't spent more than $2,500 in total, ssd's, 64 gigs of ram, 12 cores from 8, yes i did some inexpensive, well known and proven trick outs, but this thing has already given me twice the life I expected from it, and all at a virtually unmatched level of performance and reliability that a windows machine couldn't dream of, shit, this thing still benchmarks at the top of Geekbench's scales, so until Apple gives me an ACTUAL reason to feel otherwise, i'm totally cool with them, i dig my iphone 5s and Apple radio as well, they're all giving me service with no BS, if i could have ever said that about a windows anything, i'd have never made the jump.
I'll say it again, if Apple was to abandon or seriously burden 5,1 firmware users before the next 3 years, it would be a serious self inflicted wound, so i don't think it will happen as they aren't stupid, so that means my Nehalem is slated to have a 10 year shelf life at top level power, thats unbelievably, and insanely amazing, even if they finished me next year, i'd be looking at 7 years on top! I would definitely buy again.
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Post by Ward on Jan 22, 2016 23:22:58 GMT -6
Bottom line:
The Westmere is the most bitchin' Pro Tools (or any DAW) computer made ever... PERIOD.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 22, 2016 23:53:02 GMT -6
^ trudat, as of now the Nehalem, Westmere are the most prefered and configurable Macpro's by audio and video pro's, the newer trash can isn't very adjustable to taste.
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Post by mitchkricun on Jan 24, 2016 11:54:21 GMT -6
Thanks gentleman. It seems I was a year off in the cycle, when my Dual Core 2.3 mhz G5 was really showing it's age and I upgraded to a 2008 2.8 mhz 8 core. (and i would have all the power I'd ever need...lol)It has served me well for years now and only chokes when several large sample libraries are open. (24 gigs of RAM)
It doesn't really hurt my workflow terribly and I probably would just keep riding her for a while longer, except that I'm having this strange problem when it gets cold out. Unless the control room temperature is at least around 70 degrees, it takes me about 30 times to power up. The first 20 times, it goes on and turns off immediately. Next 5 times, it stays on for a few seconds before turning off, and eventually it powers up. I've looked everywhere for answers, but it seems to be pretty unique. The best idea I've found is that there may be a lubricant (hard drive or other moving part?) that when cold, can cause something to not move as it should, sending an error message to the logic board that there's a problem. I changed the boot up drive, but the problem still exists. It's possible changing to an SSD drive would help, but I'm hesitant to spend the money on a 1TB SSD drive, when my computer doesn't support SATA 3, and as I understand it, I wouldn't get the benefits running a SATA 3 SSD on my machine. Plus my magnetic hard drives have worked well for years in the same kind of temperatures that I'm having a problem with now. I'm kind of over it.
So, if I have to change computers, I feel as though I might as well go for it, as in my eyes, speed = longevity. As a bonus, my workflow should improve when I don't need to render VI's and sample libraries, or feel reticent about experimenting with a particular plug in chain.
So it comes down to finding a good deal on a 4.1 machine and upgrade it myself or buy one that's been upgraded, while staying in the $1500 range. At least, that's what's making sense to me right now...
Hey Tony, care to share some of your inexpensive, well known and proven trick outs? Thanks!
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 24, 2016 12:18:40 GMT -6
Thanks gentleman. It seems I was a year off in the cycle, when my Dual Core 2.3 mhz G5 was really showing it's age and I upgraded to a 2008 2.8 mhz 8 core. (and i would have all the power I'd ever need...lol)It has served me well for years now and only chokes when several large sample libraries are open. (24 gigs of RAM) It doesn't really hurt my workflow terribly and I probably would just keep riding her for a while longer, except that I'm having this strange problem when it gets cold out. Unless the control room temperature is at least around 70 degrees, it takes me about 30 times to power up. The first 20 times, it goes on and turns off immediately. Next 5 times, it stays on for a few seconds before turning off, and eventually it powers up. I've looked everywhere for answers, but it seems to be pretty unique. The best idea I've found is that there may be a lubricant (hard drive or other moving part?) that when cold, can cause something to not move as it should, sending an error message to the logic board that there's a problem. I changed the boot up drive, but the problem still exists. It's possible changing to an SSD drive would help, but I'm hesitant to spend the money on a 1TB SSD drive, when my computer doesn't support SATA 3, and as I understand it, I wouldn't get the benefits running a SATA 3 SSD on my machine. Plus my magnetic hard drives have worked well for years in the same kind of temperatures that I'm having a problem with now. I'm kind of over it. So, if I have to change computers, I feel as though I might as well go for it, as in my eyes, speed = longevity. As a bonus, my workflow should improve when I don't need to render VI's and sample libraries, or feel reticent about experimenting with a particular plug in chain. So it comes down to finding a good deal on a 4.1 machine and upgrade it myself or buy one that's been upgraded, while staying in the $1500 range. At least, that's what's making sense to me right now... Hey Tony, care to share some of your inexpensive, well known and proven trick outs? Thanks! start with a dual quad 2009 Nehalem, should be good under a grand, then up to 5,1 firmware for free, you can get into ecc 1333 ram for under a couple hundy for 64 gigs, if you have the need you can go up to 128 gigs of ram haha, then buy a pair of 6 core xeons for under a couple hundy and bust your threads out to 24 cpu's, get a 150 gig SSD drive for your OS and applications, these should be a really good start, cheap enough to go nuts on a great vid card and maybe PCIe SSD drives if you want? the latter is all luxury. |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jan 24, 2016 12:24:24 GMT -6
have you guys noticed a drop in ambient volume when you swap out regular HDs for SSDs?
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 24, 2016 12:30:24 GMT -6
have you guys noticed a drop in ambient volume when you swap out regular HDs for SSDs? yes, but is it enough to make a meaningful diff? not to me, it sure is faster, especially on boot up by a long shot, my tower is going to be moved outside my main room, even the little bit of noise it makes is too much at this point. |
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Post by mulmany on Jan 24, 2016 12:41:34 GMT -6
Thanks gentleman. It seems I was a year off in the cycle, when my Dual Core 2.3 mhz G5 was really showing it's age and I upgraded to a 2008 2.8 mhz 8 core. (and i would have all the power I'd ever need...lol)It has served me well for years now and only chokes when several large sample libraries are open. (24 gigs of RAM) It doesn't really hurt my workflow terribly and I probably would just keep riding her for a while longer, except that I'm having this strange problem when it gets cold out. Unless the control room temperature is at least around 70 degrees, it takes me about 30 times to power up. The first 20 times, it goes on and turns off immediately. Next 5 times, it stays on for a few seconds before turning off, and eventually it powers up. I've looked everywhere for answers, but it seems to be pretty unique. The best idea I've found is that there may be a lubricant (hard drive or other moving part?) that when cold, can cause something to not move as it should, sending an error message to the logic board that there's a problem. I changed the boot up drive, but the problem still exists. It's possible changing to an SSD drive would help, but I'm hesitant to spend the money on a 1TB SSD drive, when my computer doesn't support SATA 3, and as I understand it, I wouldn't get the benefits running a SATA 3 SSD on my machine. Plus my magnetic hard drives have worked well for years in the same kind of temperatures that I'm having a problem with now. I'm kind of over it. So, if I have to change computers, I feel as though I might as well go for it, as in my eyes, speed = longevity. As a bonus, my workflow should improve when I don't need to render VI's and sample libraries, or feel reticent about experimenting with a particular plug in chain. So it comes down to finding a good deal on a 4.1 machine and upgrade it myself or buy one that's been upgraded, while staying in the $1500 range. At least, that's what's making sense to me right now... Hey Tony, care to share some of your inexpensive, well known and proven trick outs? Thanks! This actually sounds like a power supply problem. I had a similar issue with my Z800, until I swapped the psu. It does not make sense why a psu would work then not but it was the case for me. |
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Post by mitchkricun on Jan 24, 2016 14:07:16 GMT -6
start with a dual quad 2009 Nehalem, should be good under a grand, then up to 5,1 firmware for free, you can get into ecc 1333 ram for under a couple hundy for 64 gigs, if you have the need you can go up to 128 gigs of ram haha, then buy a pair of 6 core xeons for under a couple hundy and bust your threads out to 24 cpu's, get a 150 gig SSD drive for your OS and applications, these should be a really good start, cheap enough to go nuts on a great vid card and maybe PCIe SSD drives if you want? the latter is all luxury. Thanks Tony. I'm looking, but I don't see where I can get two 6 core xeons for under $400-$450 though. $849 for a 2009 dual quad. $350 for the RAM... That's $1650 before shipping. Seems like less hassle to grab one that's already been upgraded, assuming the seller is legit, no? This actually sounds like a power supply problem. I had a similar issue with my Z800, until I swapped the psu. It does not make sense why a psu would work then not but it was the case for me. Could be, but it happened last winter too and the ran perfectly from March to mid January... |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 24, 2016 15:23:04 GMT -6
start with a dual quad 2009 Nehalem, should be good under a grand, then up to 5,1 firmware for free, you can get into ecc 1333 ram for under a couple hundy for 64 gigs, if you have the need you can go up to 128 gigs of ram haha, then buy a pair of 6 core xeons for under a couple hundy and bust your threads out to 24 cpu's, get a 150 gig SSD drive for your OS and applications, these should be a really good start, cheap enough to go nuts on a great vid card and maybe PCIe SSD drives if you want? the latter is all luxury. Thanks Tony. I'm looking, but I don't see where I can get two 6 core xeons for under $400-$450 though. $849 for a 2009 dual quad. $350 for the RAM... That's $1650 before shipping. Seems like less hassle to grab one that's already been upgraded, assuming the seller is legit, no? This actually sounds like a power supply problem. I had a similar issue with my Z800, until I swapped the psu. It does not make sense why a psu would work then not but it was the case for me. Could be, but it happened last winter too and the ran perfectly from March to mid January... |
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Post by mitchkricun on Jan 24, 2016 16:24:03 GMT -6
Good lookin' out! I was looking at prices for the 3.3ghz ones. Nice find on the memory too. I really appreciate it!
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 24, 2016 17:49:51 GMT -6
Good lookin' out! I was looking at prices for the 3.3ghz ones. Nice find on the memory too. I really appreciate it! no problem man, the diff between the 3.33 vs the 2.66 is negligible, its the 8 extra cpu threads that count, that is the exact memory i have in my rig, i believe i bought it from that guy as well.?.? good luck! |
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