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Post by svart on Jan 19, 2016 14:20:18 GMT -6
I'm possibly looking for a decent synth. I don't even know what's out there but I'd like some customization ability, or ability to upload new sounds, etc. I'm not really looking for a midi keyboard driving a program on a computer, but a real stand-alone keyboard with onboard functions.
Anybody know of anything or at least a direction I should look?
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Post by bradd on Jan 19, 2016 14:36:00 GMT -6
Are you looking for the ability to play a variety of realistic sounds such as pianos, or are you looking for strictly synth sounds? This will make a big difference in the recommendation.
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Post by svart on Jan 19, 2016 14:39:39 GMT -6
Are you looking for the ability to play a variety of realistic sounds such as pianos, or are you looking for strictly synth sounds? This will make a big difference in the recommendation. I was kind of hoping for both, thus the ability to change or upload new sounds. I do have an 88 weighted key electric piano for "piano" sounds but it's not terribly great sounding. I guess if I have to settle for one, I'd go for more pads/strings/synth stuff. Or if I have to, I'd go for two smaller synths, one for real crazy things and one for more realistic stuff. These don't have to be large size keyboards though.
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Post by bradd on Jan 19, 2016 14:45:48 GMT -6
OK. It sounds like what you are looking for is what is typically called a ROMpler. Yamaha Motif series, Roland Fantom series and Korg Kronos are the usual suspects. Much of this depends upon you budget. On a budget, the Roland JunoD series has some decent built in sounds. This is one area where your local GC can actually come in handy. Go play what they have and figure out what sounds the best to you. An idea on your budget might open up other options as well. Good luck.
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Post by popmann on Jan 19, 2016 15:37:45 GMT -6
Hardware and realistic is expensive. And for the most part WELL behind software due to, Kronos excepted, they use mostly 1990's tech. They've layered in some nicer FX....a layer of acoustic modeling on top of some types of sounds....but, it's all well behind the curve. I am a HUGE hardware proponent. I've been using mostly software instruments/sampling for 15+ years. I had all but given up on hardware ever catching up until the Kronos. And really, if you leave "keyboard instrument emulation" (meaning start talking horns and strings and drums etc) it's not equal.
On the flip side--synths/pads---old ones can be as good or better than new ones and dirt cheap. I'd bet you can get an old Roland XV module for $100 to hook up to your current board via one midi cable. If you want an actual board, those are out there, too....spending likely a bit more given that they can be used as controllers, they hold a little more value. Buying used, I'd just buy the higher end FantomX or FantomS....JV and XV modules (all that was Roland)....the ability to change sounds, though--is a big expense. Or let me say to exchange fundamental samples--you can always synthesize the sound via the ADSR envelopes and stacking and DSP FX--all kinds of sound design tools. But, when you want an actual sampler, I think you'll find the PIA factor is way higher than you want. Hardware samplers are a HUGE PIA. Software took them out EASILY....15+ years ago. Whereas, if what you want are cool synth sounds with lots of knobs premapped to sound relevant adjustments, they're all over in old hardware....new hardware....my synth loving freinds love those old Roland JP8000, I think? The one that looks like an analog synth, but isn't? With all the knobs and buttons so there's effectively very little menu surfing--just grab knobs and spin'em til it sounds cool and hit record.
I am interested in why software is out....the advantage is that you can run high rez digital and you don't have to juggle buffers that will change IO compensations for the audio. I mean--I would be a hypocrite to not understand and embrace the advantages....but, I've never been much on the budget end of instruments. Particularly keyboards....on the budget end is where software RULEZ. I mean--most people don't need anything beyond what comes with Logic or Cubase. I DO urge you to simplly write off realism--give that to software, and look for a cool sounding funky synth with lot of real time knob/slider editing. ONE HUGE advantage in hardware synths is that from the factory, the knobs and sliders are very much mapped and calibrated to adjust musically relevant pieces of each patch. Software is more of a kit mentality--program it yourself to how YOU want the controllers to work. But, that's a different thing that having it premapped and just grabbing knobs and being musical with the result. You might not even THINK to map X....let alone want to sita around and create CC maps rather than hit record and start goofing with the controls.
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Post by svart on Jan 19, 2016 16:01:14 GMT -6
Hardware and realistic is expensive. And for the most part WELL behind software due to, Kronos excepted, they use mostly 1990's tech. They've layered in some nicer FX....a layer of acoustic modeling on top of some types of sounds....but, it's all well behind the curve. I am a HUGE hardware proponent. I've been using mostly software instruments/sampling for 15+ years. I had all but given up on hardware ever catching up until the Kronos. And really, if you leave "keyboard instrument emulation" (meaning start talking horns and strings and drums etc) it's not equal. On the flip side--synths/pads---old ones can be as good or better than new ones and dirt cheap. I'd bet you can get an old Roland XV module for $100 to hook up to your current board via one midi cable. If you want an actual board, those are out there, too....spending likely a bit more given that they can be used as controllers, they hold a little more value. Buying used, I'd just buy the higher end FantomX or FantomS....JV and XV modules (all that was Roland)....the ability to change sounds, though--is a big expense. Or let me say to exchange fundamental samples--you can always synthesize the sound via the ADSR envelopes and stacking and DSP FX--all kinds of sound design tools. But, when you want an actual sampler, I think you'll find the PIA factor is way higher than you want. Hardware samplers are a HUGE PIA. Software took them out EASILY....15+ years ago. Whereas, if what you want are cool synth sounds with lots of knobs premapped to sound relevant adjustments, they're all over in old hardware....new hardware....my synth loving freinds love those old Roland JP8000, I think? The one that looks like an analog synth, but isn't? With all the knobs and buttons so there's effectively very little menu surfing--just grab knobs and spin'em til it sounds cool and hit record. I am interested in why software is out....the advantage is that you can run high rez digital and you don't have to juggle buffers that will change IO compensations for the audio. I mean--I would be a hypocrite to not understand and embrace the advantages....but, I've never been much on the budget end of instruments. Particularly keyboards....on the budget end is where software RULEZ. I mean--most people don't need anything beyond what comes with Logic or Cubase. I DO urge you to simplly write off realism--give that to software, and look for a cool sounding funky synth with lot of real time knob/slider editing. ONE HUGE advantage in hardware synths is that from the factory, the knobs and sliders are very much mapped and calibrated to adjust musically relevant pieces of each patch. Software is more of a kit mentality--program it yourself to how YOU want the controllers to work. But, that's a different thing that having it premapped and just grabbing knobs and being musical with the result. You might not even THINK to map X....let alone want to sita around and create CC maps rather than hit record and start goofing with the controls. Software is out simply because I didn't want to buy another laptop/desktop to do stuff (I do not load unnecessary stuff on the recording computer, which is why I had a trouble-free XP machine for 12 years). Another reason is that this is for the studio in general, as well as my amusement, so ease of use and lack of maintenance is a huge plus. I don't need folks dicking around with a laptop with an un-limited number of combinations. I'd rather be able to load a set number of things from an external source and that be that.. Working with limitations to keep perspective and all that.. But on the other hand, I suppose that I could probably still get a laptop and a midi keyboard for cheaper than some better full synths it seems. My cousin has a JP8000 and it's a neat device, but it really isn't that versatile beyond making strange noises IMHO. I'm not a keyboard guy, so honestly I have no idea where to even start. I think Bradd has some suggestions I'll research and see if that points me in a direction.
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Post by popmann on Jan 19, 2016 17:17:02 GMT -6
I' be always found the biggest bang for the buck is usually in stage piano lines--the workstations are hella expensive--and really just add the sequencer you don't need and a sampler/playback functions that are usually proprietary pains. Roland is the exception, as they tend to have a synth line and a digital piano line--not much crossover. But, kurzweil, Yamaha, and kind Nord will have an nice "stage piano", which is different from digital piano lines as its usually their flagship workstation soundset without the sequencer or sampler or some advanced editing. So, Yamaha Motif will run over $3k....but the latest S90 or now they switched the naming I think--will have most of the soundset but intended less for sound design and more for performance, which is likely what you're looking for.
For laptops, though, you'll need to go to the dark side and Apple or do a huge crossing of fingers. Desktops, though--I can pull a couple hundo used PC, do a fresh OS install and grab some cheap interface and be up and running super cheaply. $50 interface....for perspective a P4 could run most of the software sample/synths I own--as long as you just want to run ONE....I recently recycled the old p4--my neighbor through hers out. So--the sheer number of old computers around is staggering. I have an old iMac that's literally worth a few hundo max--runs ALL of them fine-core2Duo. So, on a budget....you can't beat a thrown out computer and a $50-100 used interface as a software instrument. I kept the P4 so long thinking I would use it as a drum brain for an eKit. It ran bfd2 at 32sample latency with a PCI interface. Now, it's been replaced in the closet by the old win7 c2quad with the same PCI rme card which will also do that....and add AddictiveDrums2, with is less good for an eKit, but....you get the point. As someone who has always surfed the bleeding edge of software synths--they're a PiA and resource hog when trying to run them inside your DAW (sometimes depending on a lot of factors) but to just call it up and play it at low latency and record the audio elsewhere ? Rarely an issue with old 2ghz+ boxes. Multi core becomes mostly irrelevant. Single core performance and the interface is what matters--PCI will beat external....but, not likely an issue with modern USB and Fw boxes that have ASIO drivers in Windows.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 19, 2016 18:31:47 GMT -6
I'm possibly looking for a decent synth. I don't even know what's out there but I'd like some customization ability, or ability to upload new sounds, etc. I'm not really looking for a midi keyboard driving a program on a computer, but a real stand-alone keyboard with onboard functions. Anybody know of anything or at least a direction I should look? For what you do, I think a Nord would be the ticket. All the indie bands use 'em.
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Post by mobeach on Jan 19, 2016 18:35:47 GMT -6
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Post by Quint on Jan 19, 2016 19:08:30 GMT -6
If you change your mind on using a midi controller, I highly recommend Sound Dust. dulcitone1884.virb.comThe sample libraries this guy puts out are completely unique and like nothing else. Listening to clips of this stuff completely changed my mind about only being interested in hardware synths. No hardware synth does stuff like this and sounds THIS organic. But I totally get the desire for a completely hardware synth. The 100% tactile approach is the best. Just depends on what your biggest priorities are.
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Post by porkyman on Jan 19, 2016 19:16:43 GMT -6
kiwi modded juno. you could get a non functioning 106, hs60, or mks-7 for cheap. obviously fixing/modding it wont be a problem for you. that way you can use it straight up in the studio or hook it up to the laptop when you wanna get jiggy with it. plus its analog which IMO is the only reason to use hardsynths.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jan 19, 2016 20:10:18 GMT -6
c'mon, bro. Omnisphere is gonna kill every board mentioned here, because they sampled all of those boards to make omnisphere lol.
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Post by winetree on Jan 19, 2016 22:04:49 GMT -6
kiwi modded juno. you could get a non functioning 106, hs60, or mks-7 for cheap. obviously fixing/modding it wont be a problem for you. that way you can use it straight up in the studio or hook it up to the laptop when you wanna get jiggy with it. plus its analog which IMO is the only reason to use hardsynths. WOW, My Juno 106 has just been sitting there. Looks like it's getting an upgrade.
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Post by mobeach on Jan 19, 2016 22:33:20 GMT -6
c'mon, bro. Omnisphere is gonna kill every board mentioned here, because they sampled all of those boards to make omnisphere lol. That's what I use.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 20, 2016 18:14:25 GMT -6
Where I ended up is vintage mid-80s synths like the Roland Alpha Juno and Yamaha DX7 and TX81z. As well as cheaper modern analogs like the Korg Monotribe, and Moog Slim Phatty.
There is a lot of variety out there if you start digging. Lots of products have come and gone and are available cheaply now. You just have to know what to look for I guess. Otherwise you've got to pay a premium for something new and fancy. But there are some good new budget synths out there like the Korg MS20 Mini and Volca series, Novation Bass Station, Arturia Microbrute and Minibrute, etc.
Some of the older Access Virus synths like the Virus B seem to be a good bargain as a do-it-all instrument.
I'm not a huge fan of software instruments either, I would recommend getting something physical. I'm also not a huge fan of romplers but that's just me I guess.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,962
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Post by ericn on Jan 20, 2016 18:22:55 GMT -6
Used hit the pawnshops
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Post by swurveman on Jan 20, 2016 20:59:58 GMT -6
I bought a used Yamaha S90 ES. Great piano, electric piano and organ sounds. Old synth pads and lead sounds though. Some still useful. Some not.
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Post by mobeach on Jan 20, 2016 21:35:14 GMT -6
I'm pleased with my new Casio PX-5S, it's the best of both worlds
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Post by stratboy on Jan 21, 2016 6:21:56 GMT -6
Attackmagazine.com has an article titled Top Ten Most Underrated Synths that might be useful. I would post a link, but I'm on a subway train right now :-)
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Post by iamasound on Jan 21, 2016 8:01:19 GMT -6
c'mon, bro. Omnisphere is gonna kill every board mentioned here, because they sampled all of those boards to make omnisphere lol. That's what I use. That's what I bought today.
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Post by mobeach on Jan 21, 2016 21:21:49 GMT -6
That's what I use. That's what I bought today. You'll enjoy it!
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 22, 2016 6:52:03 GMT -6
IMO most software synths fail because they have an impractical and illogical user interface. The only one which makes totally sense to me is the monophonic audio damage basic. And it sounds good too.... All other software synths often make me struggle because the layout does not follows the signal flow. I ask myself why, it would be a +++ USP for me to buy the synth. If you ever thought about a logical layout Basic is for you.....
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Post by svart on Jan 22, 2016 10:10:18 GMT -6
So I do have a Roland RD-150 piano, does anyone know if I can use that as a midi controller for a software based synth?
Seems like I have two directions: 1. Midi controller, software on laptop 2. Keyboard based workstation
I'd simply prefer #2 for ease of use, but if cost dictates, I could go either way.
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Post by joseph on Jan 22, 2016 10:20:45 GMT -6
Korg Minilogue looks good. Sequencer, Arp, 4 Voices, cross mod, ring mod, delay and 2 LPF filter types. All for 500. Pretty ridiculous value. www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MinilogueOn the other end of the spectrum, that new OB6 looks absolutely amazing.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 22, 2016 10:33:39 GMT -6
So I do have a Roland RD-150 piano, does anyone know if I can use that as a midi controller for a software based synth? Seems like I have two directions: 1. Midi controller, software on laptop 2. Keyboard based workstation I'd simply prefer #2 for ease of use, but if cost dictates, I could go either way. You can use the RD-150 for sure. You would just need a MIDI interface or maybe your audio interface already has a MIDI port. You may find that you prefer an unweighted or semi-weighted feel for synth lines though, rather than the piano action. There are as many MIDI keyboard controllers on the market as there are stars in the sky. I use and like the Novation Remote SL and the Icon iKeyboard. I would avoid mini-keys.
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