Getting Quiet Mixes

I think you need to post something of yours that ISN'T as quiet as you would like it to me.

I wasn't aware that in a DAW age this was an issue. Since you can in minutes edit the whole 30+ tracks to remove "dead air" noise. Manual, deliberate and flexible gating if you will. You mean the actual acoustic guitar track is so noisy you "hear noise" when it's alone? If so, where does that noise come from....you mention "without multiroom studios"--for all intents and purposes mine is single room--I keep thinking I'm going to pad up the second room and make it an iso booth, but I've not actually found much need. But, note that I'm OCD about noisy gear. I replace fans in nearly anything that has'em. I can literally hear my line regulator's "hum/buzz" right now as I type--and my monitors are on loud (not playing anything--just saying it will be at a rockin' volume when I hit play)....

Now....I've also cut with noisy preamps (you know--literally every built into a digital box EVER) recording something quiet in a room with various HDs and fans spinning....and so I understand the issue, but that's simply cause to NOT use shitty mic pres and quiet gear down. There's no technique that lessens that. Sure, you can use noise removal plug ins, but they ALL have a sonic price--and god knows an exposed solo acoustic guitar and voice are the WORST place to pay that kind of price.

What's making the noise you're hearing in the recording?

I think I understand more of what he's talking about and I think he means dynamics. I hear this a lot in reference mixes where it's a board mix and it's been pegged out. Really a lot of what you're talking about does come the mastering guys, the good ones that is. They are getting the RMS level to be screaming loud but each section of the song still sounds like it has dynamics. First though you have to create that when you track by knowing how to make parts for more instruments, not necessarily more volume. If you go back and listen to a lot of recordings around the 70's you can hear how the song pretty much stays at one dynamic, the chorus does something different but doesn't feel like it's gotten louder, it's really all in the parts. Next editing, let me tell you, I get work around here just from guys wanting ALL the dead air out of tracks, I mean I cut it extremely close and if a breathe doesn't sound right I'll pull it's level down or replace it with one that's better.

Mixing is where you've got to do a lot of the hard work to make this happen, it's all in automation and gates. If you've got a piece of gear patched or even an emulation plugin that's creating harmonics it's going to make some low level noise, the best thing to do here is to either automate a mute or just go in and pencil automation in everywhere there is no audio.... you want absolutely nothing coming through that channel unless it's a waveform. If you've got an instrument that's got some hiss or buzz, then you've got to get that Izotope RMX (I believe?) to get it out before you can go any further because when they master it, it will most certainly show.

The mastering guys run the mixes through multiple gain stages to gently lift the volume so that there is no distortion happening, that's the trick they've got, it's why when you see a ME's rack there are a ton of compressors and eq's, they may normalize it first in the box, then send it through EQ1, and if they've boosted they'll figure roughly how much volume they've added per band of boost and either let that be a gain lift or pull the level back a little so there's no chance of distortion when it flows to the next box. So, they earn they're salt by knowing and being extremely careful when they slowly lift the volume of the track through all those gain stages. That's why the songs are loud, but then still have perceived dynamics. Also, without any noise taking up bandwidth they can push a little harder.

I remember once I rushed through a track when I edited it and I sent it to one of the ME's here in town and when it came back the piano intro all of a sudden had this extremely loud and annoying hiss.... since I monitor at low volume when I mix I couldn't hear it... but it was sure there. So like Pop up there said, go and cut everything out that doesn't have any useable audio out, the dead air, because it does take up bandwidth. Also, pay attention to some of those old reverb emu's you're using.... the old springs and plates were not quiet... and some of these emulations replicate that noise, so again you have to remember to automate with mute or level on every single track, audio or aux returns to make sure there is no noise at all.

MacPros have never been "fairly quiet". Good power management on Apple's part might make you think so while they sit idle or surfing the web....and their power management is FABULOUS....but, when you're demanding a lot of a system, those boxes are WAY noisier than a well built PC. WAY....WAY....

But, I think your comment did bring somehting up....is the "one room studio" also a TINY room? I'm never sitting "at the console" recording anything. Ever. Vocals, I guess end up standing the closest.....but, the Leslie and amps are, I dunno....15ft? away....I typically cut acoustic guitar at night and clear on the other side say 24' away from "the console".

THat said, if you DO need to sit "at the console" you need to put the MP in a closet. I mean--or one the purpose built noise proof boxes built specifically FOR macPros and whatever else someone needs to have in the studio that's noisy. But, yes--to tie that back to the OP--no one DOES that--recording in a room too noisy for recording.

Apple's little solid state guys are unfortunately hit or miss, IME. My Air is silent. I can artificially push it to where the fan kicks on and is "audible"....but, I've yet to actually have that happen doing 88.2 audio production. But, the generation AFTER mine ramp up pretty often and much more loudly....and that kind of thing isn't something Apple will tell you going in.

Good programs like Izotope RX-3 (newer versions out now but they are expensive as hell) have helped me a ton to keep my mixes clean and quiet. If I have a telecaster-single coil buzz or anything thing that is extraneous noise, I make sure to get a few seconds of the noise at the head or tail of the track so I can hunt it down and kill it in post. Learning RX-3 software in and out has helped me so much. The record I am working on right now was two drop thumb Chet Atkins style players sitting 8 ft in front of the drummer and the upright bass guy iso'd a few feet away. I used D.I.'s on their Maton guitars and single miked them each with C5 Miktek's in cardiod, making sure the drums were nulled to their mics along with having their acoustics playing straight into the Primacoustic Voxguards pictured below. Being fingerstyle players, they tend to play quiet and thus the noise from fingers, frets and whatnot rise up and rear their ugly little heads. I have fixed a few glaring squeeks, bumps and human noises but kept some of them as they make the production sound more intimate and real. Since they all did the songs in takes, I am embracing some of it and only fixing what really bugs my ears during mix. A funny thing happened that I hope we will be keeping regarding noise. Mark's cell phone rang right at the end of one of their songs and the ringer was funny and in the key of the song. It couldn't have been timed any better if we were trying to drop it in there on purpose. I love when stuff like that happens. Keeps it sounding like humans and the joy of playing music isn't hidden.

I made a mistake using the word "noise" in my original post. What I mean by "quiet" is that I hear very little room or reverberation in many of these recordings. I have a big room. So, despite having 17 bass (all OC703, some 6" deep ) traps, and two 32″W x 72″H x 3″ GIK Screen panels, I cannot get the room out of my recordings. The large room reverberation is always there, though it is a heckuva lot better than it was before those 17 bass traps and two screen panels.

I can't build a 4 wall isolation booth within the room for economic/resale reasons for my house. So, I'm looking at creating a corner with Acoustic Curtains/blankets and carpet. I've never done this. So, I am looking to see what other people are doing.

Thanks for your thoughts. Very informative, particularly about automating where there's no waveform, mastering and dead air.

Here's a reference track about what I'm talking about. Listen to the acoustic guitar and the vocal at the beginning. I know guys hate this music, but this sound is one of the pop benchmarks sound wise today imo. So, I listen and study. Maybe I'm wrong that the vocal and guitar are recording in very quiet spaces, but it sounds like that to me. I also wonder how much they're cutting with EQ on the acoustic guitar past 2KHz,  with the "cutting dead air" being taken in mind.  And when the strumming comes in, the sound is huge, but not reverberant to me. Thanks for your thoughts.

There is a difference in a quiet room and a dead room. I had rehearsal rooms that were more quiet as studio recording rooms i heard. Sure i prefer not too dead. These super-dead pop recordings do sound synthetic to me, but i guess this is by intention. Sure, you can level, compress and limit the hell out of it and add reverb as needed. Also, a dead iso booth might be easier to get than a good sounding natural room.

Ok, if you can ever get here to Nashville go over to Addiction Studios..... Go into the room that has John Cains piano and just stop and listen for a few minutes.... then start talking, clap your hands and then you'll see what a room that is quiet but also has space sounds like. That's probably the most interesting and amazing rooms I've ever been in and it's rooms like that, that you can do these types of things in. You have to have air, but if you can dampen reflections around that air it will allow the microphone to be as pure as it can be and it will sound HUGE too.

I can ask my friend that is the assistant over there... he may or may not know who did it, but I know they had someone come in.... those rooms sound so amazing. Also Randy's room at his place are killer... he uses a combo of absorption and diffusion so that's another you'd want to listen in as well. 

If you want a room to track in that has these types of sound you'll need to hire someone and if the space isn't the right dimensions they'll want you to probably do some construction, if you're hell bent on getting that sound that is. I would really look into having someone consult.... they don't have to come out and do it, you can just pay them to consult you through it. 

Thanks.

Sounds like you are a candidate for the Hofa modular/movable walls and their curtains to kill what you want to.


hofa-akustik.de/en/modules/mobile-wall/


hofa-akustik.de/en/modules/curtain/

With the right walls and ceiling! If the other surfaces are too reflective they are a major problem, but if everything else is right HELL YEAH!