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Post by Randge on Jan 2, 2016 10:50:28 GMT -6
Does anyone else here have clients that want to steamroll and rush the mixing process? I have seen it more in the last couple of years than in past years. What is it? The impatience of instant gratification or what? Especially with artists who still have to shoot videos and many months of press and PR of the record in front of them before its released. It's infuriating!
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Post by Ward on Jan 2, 2016 11:09:22 GMT -6
Freddy Mercury once sang "I want it all, and I want it now"... and that's the mantra of today, along with "and I want it cheap".
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Post by Randge on Jan 2, 2016 11:14:55 GMT -6
You got that right!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 2, 2016 11:28:30 GMT -6
Wonder if it's just inexperience/youth. Seems to be an entitlement to the mid 20's set that - I swear - I didn't have. I have someone I'm working with - for free (on spec so to speak) - that can be a little pushy...It's this sense that I'm the moron that doesn't understand what's going on. It's gotten so tiresome that I'm almost to the point of cutting ties regardless of their talent.
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Post by Randge on Jan 2, 2016 11:32:04 GMT -6
This person has made those wham bam Texas dirt records and hasn't made a real honest to goodness record yet. In their 30's with opinions about everything but minimal studio experience.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jan 2, 2016 12:06:20 GMT -6
They probably don't know how good it /could/ sound, and only know how good it currently sounds because you did a good job on the production side of things. So, in their mind, it doesn't need much to be finished.
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Post by Randge on Jan 2, 2016 12:12:31 GMT -6
Right. I made them sit through their first mix and they got it a lot more but still want it done tomorrow. The second mix they left and came back as it was getting close.
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Post by winetree on Jan 2, 2016 12:25:58 GMT -6
I like when they start asking, "How much do I owe you," half way through the mix. I say, "Do you want me stop now."
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Post by Randge on Jan 2, 2016 13:24:24 GMT -6
I like when they start asking, "How much do I owe you," half way through the mix. I say, "Do you want me stop now." You sound like me, Winetree!
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Post by Randge on Jan 2, 2016 13:26:23 GMT -6
I always discuss budgets up front. If its tight, I usually suggest doing fewer songs and doing those well instead of half-assing all of them.
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Post by mrholmes on Jan 2, 2016 16:07:07 GMT -6
Does anyone else here have clients that want to steamroll and rush the mixing process? I have seen it more in the last couple of years than in past years. What is it? The impatience of instant gratification or what? Especially with artists who still have to shoot videos and many months of press and PR of the record in front of them before its released. It's infuriating! Its a sign of the 00 years no time but they all have big dreams. Not to forget they all want to become famous. Its one reason why me and myself are the only customers I have. This attitude is so much over the top that I am very happy playing in the second row.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 2, 2016 17:35:17 GMT -6
Basically, it's inexperience, and naiveté.
I used to cherish the times when I got to work with a musician who knew more than me, it was boring as hall if I was the better musician. When I was a producer, I hired the best studios and engineers, this way I could concentrate on the job, ( I was writing and producing commercials then), and the little I know about engineering I learned sideways, as it was never my focus, though I enjoyed mixing.
Perhaps because of the potential for so many people to "DIY", when it comes to music production, some people are clueless about what it takes to get a great sound, or they don't think it matters anyway.
Most people I've met under 30 have never heard an actual stereo system.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,967
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Post by ericn on Jan 2, 2016 18:27:05 GMT -6
I was going to post this in the Slate/CLA thread but maybe it fits here , many of us grew up/ came up when we viewed music and recording as creating art, now it's made like a product , it should be quick and there should be a formula, to bad there isn't one.
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Post by winetree on Jan 2, 2016 19:23:09 GMT -6
I remember one time I was over at A & M Studios and I walked into Studio A to see a friend who was 2nd engineering. Shelly Yanks was mixing a song and working on a kick drum sound. The phone rings. It must have been somebody from the Record Co. asking how the mix was going. All I heard was. "I'm working on the kick drum sound. It's only been 8 hours, what do you expect." I can still remember that till today.
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Post by drbill on Jan 2, 2016 20:51:07 GMT -6
I've never had a client that DIDN'T want to move faster. And I'm fast. Once they are done performing or producing the tracks, they think the creative part is done, and it's time to just WRAP it up. Pretty standard stuff.
I just show em the difference between "fast" and great, tell em if they want fast I can do it but that they can remove my name from the credits. That tends to get em to calm down. Usually my clients choose great, but not always....
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Post by rowmat on Jan 2, 2016 21:25:43 GMT -6
I think it's a money issue often and not just in relation to mixing.
It's important to explain the whole process to the client. Often the less experienced will think that they will be walking out with a finished product at the completion of tracking. For instance the time spent editing tracks in preparation for mixing can take many hours and is usually done without the client being present. This can be an issue when justifying the total hours spent on a project as some people think they are only accruing billable hours while they are in the studio and actually being recorded.
I try to explain it like this...
1. Set up mic's, get drum sounds etc 2. Tracking 3. Retakes, comp'ing etc. 4. Overdubs, comp'ing etc. 5. Prep for mixing, waveform editing, limiting, normalising, de-essing, de-noising, phase aligning drum tracks etc. (mixing prep should really be considered part of the mixing process and I don't usually want the client hanging around during editing etc. as they tend to get bored and impatient) 6. Mixing, multiple versions, if OTB then recall sheets, photos of settings required etc. repatching etc.
I guess some were around in the 'old days' when there was something called 'a budget' that was adequate enough to allow a week for getting drums sounds... I wish.
These days, more than ever before, as soon as you determine all the mics are working, it feels like the pressure is on to hit record and get a great sounding take straight up.
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Post by winetree on Jan 2, 2016 21:38:07 GMT -6
+ 1 to the above. That why I rent Studio Time not Recording Time.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 2, 2016 23:44:57 GMT -6
I always discuss budgets up front. If its tight, I usually suggest doing fewer songs and doing those well instead of half-assing all of them. I say let's speed demo all of them and see how long that takes/costs, then talk about doing it right....how many? If they can't afford the pre-pro demo, they can hardly afford to do anything right. Wait....that's all of my MOST FAMOUS RECORDS! F me.....
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Post by Randge on Jan 3, 2016 10:14:41 GMT -6
I've never had a client that DIDN'T want to move faster. And I'm fast. Once they are done performing or producing the tracks, they think the creative part is done, and it's time to just WRAP it up. Pretty standard stuff. I just show em the difference between "fast" and great, tell em if they want fast I can do it but that they can remove my name from the credits. That tends to get em to calm down. Usually my clients choose great, but not always.... When I am the producer, which is nearly always the case here, there is no wham bam. I discuss that before they ever get here and they fully know what they are getting into. I won't do quick sloppy work. I would rather not record them at all. That is always made very clear before anything else is discussed. Still, people who have made records that way are always in a hurry and have never done it any other way. They have to get it released as fast as possible to get their instant dose of vanity I guess.
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Post by joseph on Jan 3, 2016 10:31:59 GMT -6
In this day and age where the single dominates, and people don't care so much about albums anymore, it makes sense to do the job right on the best songs.
People are loath to make decisions, even when they know they did a half-assed job writing a song and just haven't bothered to cut it.
Speaking for myself, many of my favorite records only have 9-10 songs, and beyond that you often have filler anyway, what really belongs on b sides or to liven up a set. Worst case scenario you save a song for next record or EP.
I find cutting things refreshing!
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Post by drbill on Jan 3, 2016 13:18:30 GMT -6
+ 1 to the above. That why I rent Studio Time not Recording Time. Back when I sold "time" I went one step further than that - I didn't sell recording time, I didn't sell studio time (cause everyone has a studio and would rather have me work there so they don't have to drive), I only sold MY time. Worked out wonderfully once my clients adjusted to it. These days I don't sell anything but *music*. I produce my own projects, so my client is ME. :-) Sometimes I have problems with myself as a client though..... heh heh
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Post by EmRR on Jan 3, 2016 21:00:21 GMT -6
In this day and age where the single dominates, and people don't care so much about albums anymore, it makes sense to do the job right on the best songs. I'm continually amazed at the predictability of bands to hate their best songs. Uphill battle to get them to work on those.
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Post by svart on Jan 4, 2016 13:25:07 GMT -6
All. The. Time.
They'll call up after they're already two hours late to tell me that they aren't coming to sessions.. They'll redo the vocals or guitar tracks 100 times.. They'll completely change the direction of the "sound" after we've tracked..
But when it comes to mix time, the question is always "You think you can have it done in a couple days? We need to get it pressed by next week"..
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Post by rowmat on Jan 4, 2016 15:40:25 GMT -6
How about the band/artist who has barely finished tracking and then organises their album launch, locks in the date, venue, sells tickets and then asks you at the start of mixing their 12 track album on Wednesday
BAND: "Do you think you'll have this all finished by the weekend?"
ENGINEER: "Um... Which weekend?"
BAND: "This one coming up. We got our album launch this Saturday night."
ENGINEER: “You are joking right?”
BAND: “What’s the problem… you only gotta mix it. That won’t take long will it?”
ENGINEER: “Then it still has to be mastered, that will need to be booked in”
BAND: “Don’t worry about that! Our sound guy says that’s all bullshit. Mastering is just a scam to get more money out of you. Sounds good just mixed. Don’t wanna spend money on something that makes f*ck all difference.”
ENGINEER: “What about getting the CD’s and the artwork done? Who have you organised to do that?”
BAND: “Don’t you do that here?”
ENGINEER: “Excuse me?!!”
BAND: “Haven’t you got one of them CD burners? Our drummer has and he’s always burnin’ CD’s. I watched him, it's real easy. And if he can do it, anyone can.”
I kid you not, the above is not made up. Horror stories like this do exist!
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,967
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Post by ericn on Jan 4, 2016 16:05:24 GMT -6
How about the band/artist who has barely finished tracking and then organises their album launch, locks in the date, venue, sells tickets and then asks you at the start of mixing their 12 track album on Wednesday BAND: "Do you think you'll have this all finished by the weekend?" ENGINEER: "Um... Which weekend?" BAND: "This one coming up. We got our album launch this Saturday night." ENGINEER: “You are joking right?” BAND: “What’s the problem… you only gotta mix it. That won’t take long will it?” ENGINEER: “Then it still has to be mastered, that will need to be booked in” BAND: “Don’t worry about that! Our sound guy says that’s all bullshit. Mastering is just a scam to get more money out of you. Sounds good just mixed. Don’t wanna spend money on something that makes f*ck all difference.” ENGINEER: “What about getting the CD’s and the artwork done? Who have you organised to do that?” BAND: “Don’t you do that here?” ENGINEER: “Excuse me?!!” BAND: “Haven’t you got one of them CD burners? Our drummer has and he’s always burnin’ CD’s. I watched him, it's real easy. And if he can do it, anyone can.” I kid you not, the above is not made up. Horror stories like this do exist! True and that's why a number of guys who still make money can and will do it all in house!
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