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Post by jin167 on Dec 9, 2015 9:44:33 GMT -6
So... after reading a few posts about Amphion monitors I decided to get a pair of 18s some time ago and after having used them for a while in a number of sessions I found them to be a quiet useful tool. Crisp mids, nice stereo image, clear highs but... often I find myself wishing that there were a little more subs on these monitors.. I thought about adding a decent subwoofer to extend the base but having never used one + many failure stories about the inappropriate use of a subwoofer in 2.1 system kinda scares me from adding one in my own setup.. How do you deal with your sub issue? Do you use subwoofer or just don't bother with it? If you are using them, how do you deal with various problems (phase, positioning, level) associated with incorporating subwoofer to your existing stereo system? I'm so close to buying a subwoofer, but I don't want to end up wasting money, time, and effort for nothing..  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 9, 2015 10:16:35 GMT -6
Man, I just use a cheap KRK 10" Sub with my One 18's. They have a method of setting it up on their site involving SPL measuring, blah, blah...I've done that and it works...but I much of the time, I'll spend some time listening to stuff that I know sounds amazing and setting the sub up to sound fantastic with that...then when I mix, it translates beautifully. It also has a defeat pedal switch where you can use the sub or defeat it and hear only the monitors. Best of both worlds.
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Post by jin167 on Dec 9, 2015 10:25:19 GMT -6
SPL measuring eh? Where may I find the instruction? I will need to find some time to sit down and have a look through some articles about subwoofer installation.. I'm thinking about getting www.eve-audio.com/index.php?page=TS110 since it can be controlled from a distance with a remote controller and I think it's reasonably priced.. or is it? |
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 9, 2015 10:27:45 GMT -6
IMO, and generally speaking, subs are best used switching in and out, they will wear you out with extended use, success with them is also completely dependant on the quality of your room, uneven freq response, with low ceilings usually lead to nulls and modes throughout the sub range, the best way to deal with that cheaply is to buy 2 subs and flank them L/R to smooth the response by fill firing from different positions, my room here has a very smooth freq response, nary a hot spot, but i will be switching a sub in and out more for personal listening fun, than for mixing.
Hope this is somehow useful.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 9, 2015 10:30:08 GMT -6
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Post by ericn on Dec 9, 2015 10:34:56 GMT -6
Set up is very much dependent on the sub its self, and the speakers. Good luck and for the most part in the end JKs advice is the final test!
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Post by jin167 on Dec 9, 2015 10:36:41 GMT -6
IMO, and generally speaking, subs are best used switching in and out, they will wear you out with extended use, success with them is also completely dependant on the quality of your room, uneven freq response, with low ceilings usually lead to nulls and modes throughout the sub range, the best way to deal with that cheaply is to buy 2 subs and flank them L/R to smooth the response by fill firing from different positions, my room here has a very smooth freq response, nary a hot spot, but i will be switching a sub in and out more for personal listening fun, than for mixing. Hope this is somehow useful. It is very helpful insight Mr tony and thank you for sharing your thought with me. So I guess subwoofer should only be used to check the subs of your mix from time to time and be left off for most of the time.. |
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Post by warrenfirehouse on Dec 9, 2015 10:43:54 GMT -6
Man, I just use a cheap KRK 10" Sub with my One 18's. They have a method of setting it up on their site involving SPL measuring, blah, blah...I've done that and it works...but I much of the time, I'll spend some time listening to stuff that I know sounds amazing and setting the sub up to sound fantastic with that...then when I mix, it translates beautifully. It also has a defeat pedal switch where you can use the sub or defeat it and hear only the monitors. Best of both worlds. John, I use the 10s too, and set it up the same way (with multiple reference songs). I have it on a footswitch and mix without it 90% of the time. In my room though the lows dont really fully "bloom" at the mix position. I constantly reference my low end at the back of my room where the sub freqs really clear up. My room is fully bass trapped in the corners, but im sure it is still problematic as it is fairly small with low ceilings. Im guessing that bigger sub freq waves just simply take more time to develop, and the sub is just too close to the mix position. Do you notice this in your room? With that said, I like the sub alot. Its not very defined and kinda "tubby" sounding, but I find if I get the lows clear and tight on it, it translates very well. Without it, Id be simply guessing |
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 9, 2015 10:48:18 GMT -6
Man, I just use a cheap KRK 10" Sub with my One 18's. They have a method of setting it up on their site involving SPL measuring, blah, blah...I've done that and it works...but I much of the time, I'll spend some time listening to stuff that I know sounds amazing and setting the sub up to sound fantastic with that...then when I mix, it translates beautifully. It also has a defeat pedal switch where you can use the sub or defeat it and hear only the monitors. Best of both worlds. John, I use the 10s too, and set it up the same way (with multiple reference songs). I have it on a footswitch and mix without it 90% of the time. In my room though the lows dont really fully "bloom" at the mix position. I constantly reference my low end at the back of my room where the sub freqs really clear up. My room is fully bass trapped in the corners, but im sure it is still problematic as it is fairly small with low ceilings. Im guessing that bigger sub freq waves just simply take more time to develop, and the sub is just too close to the mix position. Do you notice this in your room? With that said, I like the sub alot. Its not very defined and kinda "tubby" sounding, but I find if I get the lows clear and tight on it, it translates very well. Without it, Id be simply guessing get a second sub, flank it like i suggested earlier, problem solved, no need to thank me 8) |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 9, 2015 10:48:50 GMT -6
I'm not super well-versed in Sub nuances...OK, I have no idea. But I know that my bottom end always sounds really good in mixes. I usually set it where it's felt and not really heard...usually really low volume.
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Post by warrenfirehouse on Dec 9, 2015 11:27:13 GMT -6
John, I use the 10s too, and set it up the same way (with multiple reference songs). I have it on a footswitch and mix without it 90% of the time. In my room though the lows dont really fully "bloom" at the mix position. I constantly reference my low end at the back of my room where the sub freqs really clear up. My room is fully bass trapped in the corners, but im sure it is still problematic as it is fairly small with low ceilings. Im guessing that bigger sub freq waves just simply take more time to develop, and the sub is just too close to the mix position. Do you notice this in your room? With that said, I like the sub alot. Its not very defined and kinda "tubby" sounding, but I find if I get the lows clear and tight on it, it translates very well. Without it, Id be simply guessing get a second sub, flank it like i suggested earlier, problem solved, no need to thank me 8) Seems like a cheap enough solution. How would you suggest positioning them? My sub is centered on the floor (on some absorbing foam) between and aligned with my monitors. On the floor under each monitor? Up off the ground slightly? Directly under the monitors? |
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Post by tonycamphd on Dec 9, 2015 11:51:43 GMT -6
get a second sub, flank it like i suggested earlier, problem solved, no need to thank me 8) Seems like a cheap enough solution. How would you suggest positioning them? My sub is centered on the floor (on some absorbing foam) between and aligned with my monitors. On the floor under each monitor? Up off the ground slightly? Directly under the monitors? just don't put them side by side, set them on the floor just under each monitor, it's not critical if they're in/outside a bit, the other thing id do, is put spikes on the bottom of the subs, and then put a heavy bag of sand on top of each sub, it should blow your mind when you hear that, setting it on foam will allow the large driver/bass waves to move the enclosure, thus causing distortion, the bag of sand gives you rock solid solidity that will surprise you, the same concept apply's to bass guitar cabs, and actually ANY speaker enclosure to some degree. Let us know if you do it, and what you think? www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dss3-bc-black-chrome-speaker-spike-set-4-pcs--240-670 |
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Post by warrenfirehouse on Dec 9, 2015 15:39:57 GMT -6
Seems like a cheap enough solution. How would you suggest positioning them? My sub is centered on the floor (on some absorbing foam) between and aligned with my monitors. On the floor under each monitor? Up off the ground slightly? Directly under the monitors? just don't put them side by side, set them on the floor just under each monitor, it's not critical if they're in/outside a bit, the other thing id do, is put spikes on the bottom of the subs, and then put a heavy bag of sand on top of each sub, it should blow your mind when you hear that, setting it on foam will allow the large driver/bass waves to move the enclosure, thus causing distortion, the bag of sand gives you rock solid solidity that will surprise you, the same concept apply's to bass guitar cabs, and actually ANY speaker enclosure to some degree. Let us know if you do it, and what you think? www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dss3-bc-black-chrome-speaker-spike-set-4-pcs--240-670Very interesting, will give this idea a shot for sure! |
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