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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2015 19:27:24 GMT -6
I know I've got to be careful when talking about the AKG 414: there are so many models and they're all rather different from one another. So I'll restrict my comments to the XLS model (the silver one).
There's a lot of talk about microphones on the forum, and there are an awful lot of good mics out there. The ones you like are very much dictated by the sort of work you do--rock, acoustic, etc. I work almost exclusively in classical music and it's nearly all live performances. So weigh that accordingly. There are a lot of mics that are common in other forms that you'll never see at a concert. And there are some mics that are really popular in classical music that turn up only rarely in other applications (DPA or Schoeps, anyone).
I have other mics that I use and love--KM140s, N8s--and I'd use them all every gig if I could. But location recording throws a lot of curves at you. You can't always use the mics you want in the places they'd ideally go. You may have problems with sight lines. You may not be able to safely run cables without risk of musicians (or audiences) tripping over them. You may not know what's going to be played (or even the instrumentation) until you get there. Acoustics might be good or horrible. You might wish to minimize what you carry if it's a long trek from parking or the weather's really bad. You might have limited setup time. I encounter all of those things.
The thing that makes the 414 such a great mic is its incredible flexibility. It's not just multipattern, but it offers very fine graduations of that pattern. You can make tiny little tweaks that make a difference. I recorded a concert yesterday where conditions dictated a pair of spaced omnis (not my favorite setup). The room had a hideous bite, but I really couldn't afford to lose the omnidirectional characteristic. The 414 let me take just a tiny bit off the backside of the mic--maybe only a dB or so of rejection, but helpful. I've used these as piano spots (M/S), main pair (in several configurations) and as spots for the back pair of a string quartet. There might always be a slightly better choice for any of those applications, but I don't know of a single other microphone that can do such a good job in so many different situations. And to top it off, it's an incredibly quiet mic--probably in the very top tier of that category. And finally, I'm one of those weenies who records at 96K or 192K. I know I don't hear those extreme frequencies, but the recordings are invariable more open with a better soundstage. The response of the 414 tails away very evenly above 20K (no problems) and the thing takes EQ like a dream.
Do I want me some U87 or some more ribbons? Sure. But for what I do, the 414XLS is as close to a desert island mic as I've ever run across.
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Post by lpedrum on Oct 19, 2015 19:51:38 GMT -6
I'll keep an open mind and it's good to revisit one's assumptions! That said, I just never LOVED 414s on acoustic guitar or overheads, and that's often where they show up when recording bands. I even recorded acoustic guitar once with an old 414 with the CK12 capsule and still didn't quite dig it. Another part of me wonders if it's so great why aren't boutique companies making high end clones like they do with 47s, 67s, or 251s? Maybe there are legal reasons for that and the body design is patented? I'm a mic user and not a builder, so I'd be interested to hear other's opinions and where they think the mic shines. FYI, I use your Phoenix all the time Michael! PLUS...it's a little dizzying to know which 414 would be best as this LINK can attest. |
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Post by ragan on Oct 19, 2015 20:26:38 GMT -6
I'll keep an open mind and it's good to revisit one's assumptions! That said, I just never LOVED 414s on acoustic guitar or overheads, and that's often where they show up when recording bands. I even recorded acoustic guitar once with an old 414 with the CK12 capsule and still didn't quite dig it. Another part of me wonders if it's so great why aren't boutique companies making high end clones like they do with 47s, 67s, or 251s? Maybe there are legal reasons for that and the body design is patented? I'm a mic user and not a builder, so I'd be interested to hear other's opinions and where they think the mic shines. FYI, I use your Phoenix all the time Michael! PLUS...it's a little dizzying to know which 414 would be best as this LINK can attest. I bet the boutique brands not making 414s has more to do with the fact that you can get a new one for $1k and a used one for about $600. I like 414s too. I had a pair of b-ULS for severa years and they are absolute workhorses. I've played on records with original 414 CK12s and XLS's too. I always like them. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 19, 2015 20:27:48 GMT -6
Lost a JW modded Brass Cap EB in Hurricane Ike, I miss that mic!
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Post by Randge on Oct 19, 2015 21:27:45 GMT -6
Mine are with the Shan-man and I can't wait to hear them with new matching capsules in them!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2015 21:47:26 GMT -6
Of course it's horses for courses and I really do want to make it clear that I understand that. A lot of the 414s (like the ULS and XLII) have that pronounced peak that makes them good for some vocals and maybe a little harsh for everything else. The XLS models that I'm referring to are perhaps the flattest of all the 414s, which is perhaps why I find them so strong as all-purpose mics. In my world, you start with "flat" as the assumption and then tilt away from that when needed. I purchased mine as a nicely-matched set, so I don't have to worry so much about which one is which.
It probably doesn't really help that AKG has a whole lot of different mics that are all called 414s, with the only really common attribute being that distinctive shape. Of course, Porsche has a lot of different cars called 911s and people seem to manage ;-)
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Post by drbill on Oct 19, 2015 22:25:55 GMT -6
I had a pair of B-ULS's for close to 20 years and I think they only got used a half dozen times. Mostly when I didn't want to take the Gefell's or Neumann's out for a live record. They ARE very versatile mics, but their sound just never resonated with me. I ended up selling them.
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Post by ragan on Oct 19, 2015 23:02:16 GMT -6
Of course it's horses for courses and I really do want to make it clear that I understand that. A lot of the 414s (like the ULS and XLII) have that pronounced peak that makes them good for some vocals and maybe a little harsh for everything else. The XLS models that I'm referring to are perhaps the flattest of all the 414s, which is perhaps why I find them so strong as all-purpose mics. In my world, you start with "flat" as the assumption and then tilt away from that when needed. I purchased mine as a nicely-matched set, so I don't have to worry so much about which one is which. It probably doesn't really help that AKG has a whole lot of different mics that are all called 414s, with the only really common attribute being that distinctive shape. Of course, Porsche has a lot of different cars called 911s and people seem to manage ;-) The ULS's are the darkest 414s. Darker than the very flat XLS. No pronounced peak to be had. I think they're the only 414s with a transformer? Could be wrong there but they're definitely the meatiest. Still pretty neutral though. The XLII and TLII are the bright ones. |
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Post by odyssey76 on Oct 20, 2015 3:51:15 GMT -6
Mine are with the Shan-man and I can't wait to hear them with new matching capsules in them! This sounds real interesting - what type of sound are you mad scientists going for with these? I'd love to hear some clips when finished.... |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 20, 2015 3:53:01 GMT -6
^^Famous Last words^^  |
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Post by Randge on Oct 20, 2015 5:51:20 GMT -6
I don't have a C-12 around here, so I am shooting for a matched pair of those.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 20, 2015 6:22:28 GMT -6
Of course it's horses for courses and I really do want to make it clear that I understand that. A lot of the 414s (like the ULS and XLII) have that pronounced peak that makes them good for some vocals and maybe a little harsh for everything else. The XLS models that I'm referring to are perhaps the flattest of all the 414s, which is perhaps why I find them so strong as all-purpose mics. In my world, you start with "flat" as the assumption and then tilt away from that when needed. I purchased mine as a nicely-matched set, so I don't have to worry so much about which one is which. It probably doesn't really help that AKG has a whole lot of different mics that are all called 414s, with the only really common attribute being that distinctive shape. Of course, Porsche has a lot of different cars called 911s and people seem to manage ;-) The ULS's are the darkest 414s. Darker than the very flat XLS. No pronounced peak to be had. I think they're the only 414s with a transformer? Could be wrong there but they're definitely the meatiest. Still pretty neutral though. The XLII and TLII are the bright ones. All that came before except TL and TL II have transformers. TL stood for transformer Less |
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 20, 2015 8:10:55 GMT -6
I had a TLll with a C12 cap in it, it was a very clean, extended and wide open mic, I sold it and I do miss it.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 20, 2015 8:27:41 GMT -6
I have a B-ULS version from the mid 1990's. I don't think it's ever been used for vocals. In that context it sounds very one dimensional and grainy. It tends to live on bass amp, works very well there. It also sees duty between pairs of toms or floor tom, does well. Occasionally an electric guitar with a very clean sound, it will be the best thing, like hollow body jazz stylings. It fails the key jangle test horribly, worst of any condenser I own, and would peel the paint off the walls with acoustic guitar.
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Post by sean on Oct 20, 2015 10:30:01 GMT -6
I have a pair of JW modified 414-ULS, not a matched pair just two I bought and had modified at different times. Good, flat microphones. I use them on overheads or toms or as room microphones (overheads and rooms switch between them and an R88, depending on how I feel) and piano. Less harsh in midrange compared to say a U87. I think for what ULS go for used they are hard to beat. I also like the ULS-TL (not TL II) which is a transformerless version (the TL II has the more modern, bright CK12 "inspired" capsule) but I don't see them come up for sale very often.
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Post by winetree on Oct 20, 2015 11:03:04 GMT -6
What about the 414 EB ?
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Post by ragan on Oct 20, 2015 11:08:54 GMT -6
The ULS's are the darkest 414s. Darker than the very flat XLS. No pronounced peak to be had. I think they're the only 414s with a transformer? Could be wrong there but they're definitely the meatiest. Still pretty neutral though. The XLII and TLII are the bright ones. All that came before except TL and TL II have transformers. TL stood for transformer Less Yes ok. I knew TL was for transformer less but I recall comments about the b-ULS transformer being unique. Maybe it's just a different tranny. I'll have to dig that up. |
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Post by svart on Oct 20, 2015 11:12:54 GMT -6
I tried a few different 414's years and years ago. Someone suggested the Gefell M930 instead.. I bought those immediately and never looked back.
I suggest anyone looking for a desert island mic to check them out, they are everything people expect the 414 to be, but x10.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Oct 20, 2015 14:31:27 GMT -6
i have a 414B-ULS. even tho I have a MicRehab CV4, when I posted a sax-centered shootout of all my mics last year, a lot of folks still liked the 414 over the CV4 on sax. that makes sense if the B-ULS is the darkest of all the 414s
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 20, 2015 14:34:05 GMT -6
i have a 414B-ULS. even tho I have a MicRehab CV4, when I posted a sax-centered shootout of all my mics last year, a lot of folks still liked the 414 over the CV4 on sax. that makes sense if the B-ULS is the darkest of all the 414s OT, but do you use any ribbons on your sax? I was always happy with the Royer on sax. What do you use live? |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Oct 20, 2015 14:44:21 GMT -6
i have always hated the way ribbons sounded. but that's probably because the room sucked, or i sounded horrible lol. Mark from Samar is supposed to send me a demo of his new ribbon this week, so i might change my mind about ribbons.
Live, i use an AMT Wi-5. You can hear the shootout here:
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 20, 2015 14:59:27 GMT -6
i have always hated the way ribbons sounded. but that's probably because the room sucked, or i sounded horrible lol. Mark from Samar is supposed to send me a demo of his new ribbon this week, so i might change my mind about ribbons. Live, i use an AMT Wi-5. You can hear the shootout here: Damn. That wireless system looks killer, but not the type of thing I could shell out for. I was hoping you would say that you use some cheap secret weapon dynamic that I could pick up for my FOH arsenal. |
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Oct 20, 2015 15:04:15 GMT -6
i found it used (D stock) for $320 lol. the warranty had expired, so musiciansfriend was unloading them.
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Post by popmann on Oct 20, 2015 15:08:37 GMT -6
I have the plastic ring version. It's much more useable than the ULBS, which is the variant I'm most familiar with. It still has the mid scoop (1-3khz) that I find counterindicative for vocals and amps....but, it seems fairly flat outside that range and certainly has a nice low frequency "body" that is consistent. It's my go to for any "thin" or "honky" sound around the studio--including when I do harmony vocals and sing way higher than I should. To the OP's point, it's the only hyperC mic I own, so it also gets that call when that's functionally needed. But, the EB only has that in addition to the "typical vintage 3 patterns". In fact the HyperC is what I would use for vocals because it seems to level the mid scoop a little, and bump the air....so, pickup range aside--it's the goto for vocals with the mic for me. |
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Post by EmRR on Oct 20, 2015 15:11:35 GMT -6
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