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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 5, 2015 11:29:22 GMT -6
NoFilterChuck and tonycamphd, what are you guys talking about? Who cares if these things are good or what the actual value is? You're missing the point. These rigs cost boatloads of money when they were new and now they're selling for pennies on the dollar. Here's an analog 192 that sold for $400... www.ebay.com/itm/Digidesign-192-w-16-Analog-inputs-Pro-Tools-Avid-Interface-Used-/231698395528?hash=item35f24cf188How much was this 192 new? Probably $3000? Now you're lucky if you can get 4 bones for it. I'm just trying to make the point that the value of computers and peripherals drop quicker than most things and should be looked at as having 0 return if/when looking to sell. They are a sunk cost. what?.... me miss the point? pffftt!!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 5, 2015 11:30:18 GMT -6
I give up. Apparently, my point is wrong. Sorry I chimed in.
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 5, 2015 11:35:46 GMT -6
I give up. Apparently, my point is wrong. Sorry I chimed in. No I understand. I always thought the Raven an interesting but overly expensive product, but if you are a high volume (lots of sessions) producer then its efficeincies pay for themselves.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 5, 2015 11:53:56 GMT -6
I give up. Apparently, my point is wrong. Sorry I chimed in. No! your exactly right, i posted the cartoon as sarcasm to show how i missed it so badly, no worries pal 8)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 12:38:20 GMT -6
at $1000 I'm in, looks cool.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 5, 2015 13:06:04 GMT -6
I had such a shitty experience with Slate's plugs, I'd hesitate to buy any Slate product without being damn certain it'll do what I need for at least 2-3 years.
I bought VTM, it was buggy, after much frustration back and forth, it still didn't work, so I was allowed to exchange it for their FG-X plug. Before buying FG-X, I asked Slate twice on the phone, and once in an email, and they promised me all three times, FG-X would be available in 64 bits within a 2-3 months, at the latest, so I bought it, based on their promise. I specifically asked because I knew I'd be updating to 64 bits soon. Well, it wasn't available in 64 bits for two years, my $200 purchase was wasted, since I bought other plug-ins to use while waiting for FG-X to be updated, and now preferred the newer plugs. FG-X also screwed me up big time, locking me out of my own computer for days, twice, due to issues with iLok. Besides two years of broken promises, Slate also promised a big new shiny upgraded FG-X to those long suffering FG-X customers, and that's been about as far on the back burner as it can get.
The point of my rant is, as much as I root for and admire Steven Slate, and hope he knocks it out of the park with his innovative ideas, like the Raven, or the promised VMS system, I'd take any Slate promise regarding their products with the biggest grain of salt you can find.
I understand there are many who've had a much more positive Slate experience, but I'm just passing on my particular experience.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 5, 2015 14:55:07 GMT -6
It has done a thing for my workflow if were being honest. Its cumbersome and I hate that it never pulls up sessions right. Ok, this reads like typo city. It has or has not done anything for your workflow?
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Post by rickcarson on Oct 5, 2015 15:30:16 GMT -6
Haha sorry I type fast, It has done a thing or two towards workflow that I appreciate when I actually use it which hasnt been months but even when I do pulling up sessions on it is cumbersome.
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Post by dandeurloo on Oct 5, 2015 15:36:19 GMT -6
Cumbersome, that is a good word for it. When I used one at AES it seemed cumbersome and I lost interested really fast with it. Even the Slate guy who was demoing it was and acting like he was flying around, moving faders and stuff. In reality he was missing half the faders he was going for and the other stuff. It just seemed like a fun idea but maybe not the best when put to practical uses.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 5, 2015 15:54:19 GMT -6
I give up. Apparently, my point is wrong. Sorry I chimed in. I get your point and you would be right but in this particular case the only thing that's changed is that Slate moved manufacturing to China and changed the surround material to something cheaper so he pretty much did just undercut the value that people paid. True. Like my mixer. This was $6000 when it was released, dropped to $3k, now $2200. Behringer wrecked the value of Midas. www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/VeniceF32
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Post by kcatthedog on Oct 5, 2015 15:57:33 GMT -6
I really like the idea of the raven but as a singer songwriter typically just taking my time on one song, I have not been convinced it would create any great efficiencies or that the batch processing would matter much to me.
The idea of life size gui to manipulate I do like.
At the pro tools site someone referenced that they have not increased the resolution of the screen. I would encourage you to go and try one and see for yourself in real life what you think about its clarity. The one I saw almost seemed opaqued compared to the imac retina display; my point is that the actual monitor may not be that refined and may be already a bit dated?
I wonder how much you end up accommodating its programming and learning its workflow ?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 5, 2015 18:50:45 GMT -6
As someone who paid $2200 for one when it came out. I am very sad to see them being sold for $550 on the other sites classifieds less that 24 months later. bad investment. Yeah I feel for you Rick, I do but that is the world of tech, but Slate being Steven Slate I bet if you voice that directly you might get some free plugins!
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Post by rickcarson on Oct 6, 2015 7:12:41 GMT -6
Its only the world of tech when companies decided to devalue there product. There was no reason to do that except to go for the quick buck. Fuck there plugins. Half that shit crashes my system on the regular. Trigger is great(except that it will forget samples so it needs to be printed so I guess its broken as well) though and I would love to have a stable version of FG-x for the first time ever.
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Post by rickcarson on Oct 6, 2015 7:14:17 GMT -6
I really like the idea of the raven but as a singer songwriter typically just taking my time on one song, I have not been convinced it would create any great efficiencies or that the batch processing would matter much to me. The idea of life size gui to manipulate I do like. At the pro tools site someone referenced that they have not increased the resolution of the screen. I would encourage you to go and try one and see for yourself in real life what you think about its clarity. The one I saw almost seemed opaqued compared to the imac retina display; my point is that the actual monitor may not be that refined and may be already a bit dated? I wonder how much you end up accommodating its programming and learning its workflow ? I have never had a single batch command go the way I want it to.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Oct 6, 2015 8:34:46 GMT -6
FG-X seems OK now rick, but after two years time passed while they got it running in 64, other companies came out with products I like better. Apple's compressors are seriously great. The offer six different types, each one as good as the next. I have FG-X, and a whole bundle of Waves plugs, L1, L2, L3, and a dozen others, and Apple's sound better. Slate really would need to come up with something stellar to top what I got for free from Apple.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Oct 6, 2015 9:40:51 GMT -6
Im sure he found a cheaper source of touch screens, and bought big! I'm surprised nobody has either cracked his software or written a better open source code yet.
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Post by donr on Oct 6, 2015 11:03:43 GMT -6
I just read somewhere Steven said they stopped hand assembling them in CA, got rid of the aluminum frame, and sourced production overseas.
I get Rick's frustration with his Mark I, but I imaging Slate would rather sell them for 999 than for 2500 and get many more out there to people.
I paid $4000 for a 16mHz Powerbook 180 with 4 meg of ram. I also paid $2500 for a 20 mb internal hd retrofit for my Mac Plus in the late '80's. And that was '80's dollars.
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Post by mrholmes on Oct 6, 2015 14:19:58 GMT -6
As someone who paid $2200 for one when it came out. I am very sad to see them being sold for $550 on the other sites classifieds less that 24 months later. bad investment. Easy, introducing prices are always super high. For this reason I always wait a year or two or three…. I never buy something becasue its NEW.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Oct 6, 2015 14:28:53 GMT -6
The 192 still works and will continue to unless somebody like Apple throws a curve-ball requiring a firmware update or some part in it that's no longer available goes haywire.
As for Raven, if you stop to think about it, windows has supported multi-touch for many years and holds many of the patents. It's only a matter of time until a touch iMac appears at which point every DAW will support it and there'll be intense competition for performance at very low prices.
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Post by EmRR on Oct 6, 2015 14:53:22 GMT -6
I have thought it interesting there wasn't an Apple touchscreen desktop system yet.
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Post by popmann on Oct 6, 2015 15:25:40 GMT -6
They're slowing their desktop boxes to merge iOS and OSX. They'll use that merger to launch Apple multitouch.
I've never understood the appeal of this. maybe I've worked in IT too long, but until it uses an OS level set of APIs for the multitouch AND a DAW maker abandons mouse control for a UI redesign, this is just a big cool looking PIA.
I've said before that I feel like my next DAW will be a Surface Pro and an SPL Crimson. Or similar, since I don't need a new one NOW. The horsepower is already there....internal SSD and quad i5 will more than handle 88.2 audio production. There's just no software. It needs to be a ground up redesign of the UI. Not the mouse emulation that Cubase does or the tremor tiny Ui Sonar implemented. I reached out to my contacts at Microsoft, who put me in touch with someone on the Surface team who told me they'd cancelled the project to make a "music production" version of Surface. Disappointing. I'd have made that something special. Swipe through the various workspaces....automatically maximizing and scaling plug UI....graphically layering things like meters that you want to see but don't need to interact with as transparencies behind faders.....
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Post by ctdrum on Oct 6, 2015 15:56:20 GMT -6
We've all been burned with gear purchasing at some point so we feel your pain Rick. The Raven was not a typical case of product depreciation. It was a novel experiment in the gear marketplace connected to rapidly changing computer technology making its long term value very risky.
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Post by b1 on Oct 6, 2015 16:08:53 GMT -6
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Post by b1 on Oct 6, 2015 16:09:32 GMT -6
It's a pain reaching for a mouse... no way I want to travel 2 more feet to screen...
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Post by EmRR on Oct 6, 2015 16:45:23 GMT -6
It's a pain reaching for a mouse... no way I want to travel 2 more feet to screen... This is funny to me, I guess the lust for a big console is long gone......I'd much rather reach for a screen if it proves to be reliable.
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