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Post by KJ on Jun 10, 2015 20:46:15 GMT -6
Just saw this on facebook and thought it might interest some of you who are considering hardware summing. Would you be able to pick out a hardware summing out of 7 samples in this test? I tried really hard on my system (pure2 + amphion 18s) but gave up after a while because they all sounded pretty decent. Just my opinion but in terms of quality of sound (and sound only. I know that there are more benefits in working in an analogue domain than just a sound) I don't think plugins are inferior to hardware any more... it's just different. p.s Try nebula 3 and this will become even more apparent. Can the Slate Digital VIRTUAL CONSOLE COLLECTION sound as good as a world class Analog Summing Hardware? Well, Steven Slate has just put that to the test! Check out post #2226 in the following link, where he posted seven mixed audio files. Six of them were summed “in the box” using the Virtual Console Collection analog console models, and one of the audio files uses the Phoenix Audio NICERSIZER mk2. Can you identify the analog sum verse the analog modeled sum? Post your thoughts here! www.gearslutz.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/988808-slate-digital-virtual-console-collection-2-0-a-75.html?highlight=slate |
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Post by gouge on Jun 10, 2015 21:31:33 GMT -6
do you not think it very odd that all of the samples sound pretty similar. give me the phoenix and the itb and i'll guarantee they'll sound worlds apart.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 10, 2015 21:40:14 GMT -6
Just saw this on facebook and thought it might interest some of you who are considering hardware summing. Would you be able to pick out a hardware summing out of 7 samples in this test? I tried really hard on my system (pure2 + amphion 18s) but gave up after a while because they all sounded pretty decent. Just my opinion but in terms of quality of sound (and sound only. I know that there are more benefits in working in an analogue domain than just a sound) I don't think plugins are inferior to hardware any more... it's just different. p.s Try nebula 3 and this will become even more apparent. Can the Slate Digital VIRTUAL CONSOLE COLLECTION sound as good as a world class Analog Summing Hardware? Well, Steven Slate has just put that to the test! Check out post #2226 in the following link, where he posted seven mixed audio files. Six of them were summed “in the box” using the Virtual Console Collection analog console models, and one of the audio files uses the Phoenix Audio NICERSIZER mk2. Can you identify the analog sum verse the analog modeled sum? Post your thoughts here! www.gearslutz.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/988808-slate-digital-virtual-console-collection-2-0-a-75.html?highlight=slateI agree that plugins these days can sound really good. Slate's tests always leave me questioning the validity though. If you don't know the sound of the Nicerizer or the VCC emu's intimately, it's just a shot in the dark. There is no flat itb mix as a control either right? With a flat ITB, you could probably pick out the VCC Neve quickly just based on the hump in the bottom. Even still, I'd venture to guess that whichever sounds the least wide is the Nicerizer mix. I think Slate has a little secret sauce (touch of widening hidden in the algo) on his plugs. I at least get that vibe from VBC. |
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Post by KJ on Jun 10, 2015 21:48:25 GMT -6
do you not think it very odd that all of the samples sound pretty similar. give me the phoenix and the itb and i'll guarantee they'll sound worlds apart. Although I understand your point of view personally if the stuff that goes into a summing box comes out sounding worlds apart from its original then I don't think I would ever consider using that particular unit to be honest. And you are right they do all sound quiet similar (although there are subtle differences between each mix) and that's what lead me to think that current generation plugin summing is pretty much on par with hardware summing. |
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Post by KJ on Jun 10, 2015 21:49:56 GMT -6
Just saw this on facebook and thought it might interest some of you who are considering hardware summing. Would you be able to pick out a hardware summing out of 7 samples in this test? I tried really hard on my system (pure2 + amphion 18s) but gave up after a while because they all sounded pretty decent. Just my opinion but in terms of quality of sound (and sound only. I know that there are more benefits in working in an analogue domain than just a sound) I don't think plugins are inferior to hardware any more... it's just different. p.s Try nebula 3 and this will become even more apparent. Can the Slate Digital VIRTUAL CONSOLE COLLECTION sound as good as a world class Analog Summing Hardware? Well, Steven Slate has just put that to the test! Check out post #2226 in the following link, where he posted seven mixed audio files. Six of them were summed “in the box” using the Virtual Console Collection analog console models, and one of the audio files uses the Phoenix Audio NICERSIZER mk2. Can you identify the analog sum verse the analog modeled sum? Post your thoughts here! www.gearslutz.com/board/product-alerts-older-than-2-months/988808-slate-digital-virtual-console-collection-2-0-a-75.html?highlight=slateI agree that plugins these days can sound really good. Slate's tests always leave me questioning the validity though. If you don't know the sound of the Nicerizer or the VCC emu's intimately, it's just a shot in the dark. There is no flat itb mix as a control either right? With a flat ITB, you could probably pick out the VCC Neve quickly just based on the hump in the bottom. Even still, I'd venture to guess that whichever sounds the least wide is the Nicerizer mix. I think Slate has a little secret sauce (touch of widening hidden in the algo) on his plugs. I at least get that vibe from VBC. There is an ITB control FYI: First the ITB mix:
www.stevenslate.com/vcctest/ITB.wav
www.stevenslate.com/vcctest/sum1.wavwww.stevenslate.com/vcctest/sum2.wavwww.stevenslate.com/vcctest/sum3.wavwww.stevenslate.com/vcctest/sum4.wavwww.stevenslate.com/vcctest/sum5.wavwww.stevenslate.com/vcctest/sum6.wavwww.stevenslate.com/vcctest/sum7.wav |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 10, 2015 21:56:34 GMT -6
Ahh, thanks. I'll try to crack these open on Fri. In the meantime, listen for the least narrow and see if thats the Nicerizer.  |
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Post by gouge on Jun 10, 2015 22:07:51 GMT -6
do you not think it very odd that all of the samples sound pretty similar. give me the phoenix and the itb and i'll guarantee they'll sound worlds apart. Although I understand your point of view personally if the stuff that goes into a summing box comes out sounding worlds apart from its original then I don't think I would ever consider using that particular unit to be honest. And you are right they do all sound quiet similar (although there are subtle differences between each mix) and that's what lead me to think that current generation plugin summing is pretty much on par with hardware summing. you know 10 years ago if someone said a neve , api, ssl and tube console sounded quite similar people would have chuckled.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 10, 2015 23:53:30 GMT -6
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Post by ragan on Jun 11, 2015 1:00:53 GMT -6
Slate has an open invitation for anyone in LA to come by and do AB's live FYI.
Also, the Nicerizer (according to Slate's analyzer) has a wider (4.5db I think?) pan law that needs to be accounted for in a DAW to do a real comparison.
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Post by ben on Jun 11, 2015 1:05:42 GMT -6
I'm using an ATI 8mx2 for summing if I choose to sum. It's a nice sounding unit with 8 mic pres, 25pin dsub and I run all the stems through my monitor control, the SPL MTC 2381, then back to the DAW or whatever external recorder. What do you think of this setup?
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Post by gouge on Jun 11, 2015 3:04:12 GMT -6
Slate has an open invitation for anyone in LA to come by and do AB's live FYI. Also, the Nicerizer (according to Slate's analyzer) has a wider (4.5db I think?) pan law that needs to be accounted for in a DAW to do a real comparison. If I lived in the states I'd take on that option in a second and I guarantee you'd be able to pick a difference between the 2. |
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Post by ragan on Jun 11, 2015 3:08:32 GMT -6
Slate has an open invitation for anyone in LA to come by and do AB's live FYI. Also, the Nicerizer (according to Slate's analyzer) has a wider (4.5db I think?) pan law that needs to be accounted for in a DAW to do a real comparison. If I lived in the states I'd take on that option in a second and I guarantee you'd be able to pick a difference between the 2. Heheh. Perhaps! Can you pick the clearly analog one from those files? I can't. |
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 11, 2015 4:18:50 GMT -6
Well sonically this test is skewed towards the sound of the plug 6 of 7 samples although I have vcc I hardly use it there are differences in its console sound but i tend to find my mixes get muddy without vcc so don't want to add more plugs does anybody think if you did these mixes on the real consoles they would sound like these samples ? |
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Post by gouge on Jun 11, 2015 5:11:52 GMT -6
If I lived in the states I'd take on that option in a second and I guarantee you'd be able to pick a difference between the 2. Heheh. Perhaps! Can you pick the clearly analog one from those files? I can't. nope. and that's the point I'm making. how is that possible. are you telling me an api console sounds quite like a neve console or an ssl console.
they don't. they never will. they all saturate differently. there is nothing about them that is similar. the fact that here we have what are meant to be emulations of consoles and they all sound pretty much the same should be ringing alarm bells.
it's pretty obvious why these sample all sound similar. it's because they are all being used at unity and that is being done for a reason.
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Post by mrholmes on Jun 11, 2015 7:41:11 GMT -6
I find those test files very confusing because SL is running a company and he will always feature his products by nature.
Its his job because he has to pay bills.
There is no better marketing as to worry the kids at GS about that something is wrong with their ITB summing.
Second problem, to me is:
Its always the best way to use the gear and to build his own opinion on using it.
If it works for you fine use it, if not who cares.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 11, 2015 8:18:37 GMT -6
No time for this today. I know Steven believes that there's no difference between emulations and hardware, he's based his company's reputation on it. These tests have their own bias. Yes, the plug-ins sound good enough to use professionally. Yes, they're very similar to the products they emulate, and in these comparisons, few, if any can tell them apart. That said, every time I've had the hardware and the plug side by side, the hardware sounded better, and stacked better. I just got a new preamp yesterday, The Dizengoff D4, believe me, no software emulation can reproduce what this thing is doing. Really, people aren't stupid, they'd love to buy say.. a Sta Level plug, rather than stereo Sta's for $5,000, but it's just not the same, sorry.
The bias I referred to is that differences are not always obvious at first, especially when A-B-ing, but give it time in your own space and system, and the difference becomes as obvious as mustard stain on a black tie.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 11, 2015 8:39:27 GMT -6
yeah, a test from a guy who's selling stuff that he says is equal to the hardware is not a good source, beside this, in your own control, if you listen to ITB anything vs OTB anything it's just not close dimensionally, NOT even close IME, some internet comparison isn't going to change what i've personally experienced. Now compare those pinched off, dimensionless S Slate mixes to this...
www.dropbox.com/s/nmz6ex970cb8en0/11-The%20_In_%20Crowd.wav?dl=0These kinds of threads are GS rabbit holes, quite honestly, this ^ post should have killed this thread, use your ears for the love of all that is holy! haha |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 11, 2015 8:46:16 GMT -6
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 11, 2015 8:48:26 GMT -6
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 11, 2015 9:04:03 GMT -6
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Post by ragan on Jun 11, 2015 9:06:49 GMT -6
I'm agnostic about it. I've used Neve, SSL, API and Trident desks (though I was the artist and not the main guy pushing faders around). But I've never sat them all in a room and wired up a crazy matrix in order to flip back and forth between them.
It's possible that the actual sonic differences are smaller than we'd like to think, but that if you do a whole project on one particular desk, you make different decisions throughout which in the end leads to pretty different sounding mixes. Or not. Maybe the differences really are huge.
It's of course totally possible that Slate's bias towards his products and economics makes him cook the books on his comparisons. But assuming that would be OUR bias. It's not like we have empirical evidence he's a crook. We're assuming he must be.
And maybe he is. I certainly don't know him. I am, though, intrigued by the fact that he invites AE'a over to compare all his plugs to the hardware themselves when they don't trust his tests.
Hard to say what's going on in Internet Forum Land. Gotta triangulate.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jun 11, 2015 9:19:15 GMT -6
I'm agnostic about it. I've used Neve, SSL, API and Trident desks (though I was the artist and not the main guy pushing faders around). But I've never sat them all in a room and wired up a crazy matrix in order to flip back and forth between them. It's possible that the actual sonic differences are smaller than we'd like to think, but that if you do a whole project on one particular desk, you make different decisions throughout which in the end leads to pretty different sounding mixes. Or not. Maybe the differences really are huge. It's of course totally possible that Slate's bias towards his products and economics makes him cook the books on his comparisons. But assuming that would be OUR bias. It's not like we have empirical evidence he's a crook. We're assuming he must be. And maybe he is. I certainly don't know him. I am, though, intrigued by the fact that he invites AE'a over to compare all his plugs to the hardware themselves when they don't trust his tests. Hard to say what's going on in Internet Forum Land. Gotta triangulate. I a huge fan of Slate and his work. I like his plugs, but love his marketing. He's a FANTASTIC hype man and salesman. I think he has a degree in marketing, and really seems to be making the most of it. If I'm ever in Cali again, I'm going to make a point to reach out to him and check out his place. I'd love to do some listening there. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jun 11, 2015 9:44:45 GMT -6
I haven't a clue, the sound is crazy good though, and it puts a stark juxtaposition to the "mixes" slate posted. |
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Post by RicFoxx on Jun 11, 2015 10:33:07 GMT -6
I haven't a clue, the sound is crazy good though, and it puts a stark juxtaposition to the "mixes" slate posted. Great but that vocal sounds like the vocalist is singing right into my ear opposed to how I like to hear a vocal (In front of me a couple of feet in a good room.) Crisp and clear though and blows the slate mix out of the water. His seems over compressed. |
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Post by henge on Jun 11, 2015 10:46:02 GMT -6
I haven't a clue, the sound is crazy good though, and it puts a stark juxtaposition to the "mixes" slate posted. Great but that vocal sounds like the vocalist is singing right into my ear opposed to how I like to hear a vocal (In front of me a couple of feet in a good room.) Crisp and clear though and blows the slate mix out of the water. His seems over compressed. Be interested in hearing a big open mix in the Slate test. |
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