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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 18, 2015 16:12:18 GMT -6
I don't know how I've managed to miss this for 2 years but I just saw this today. It looks really good. Something for you guys who don't use a console to have a look at. I think dandeurloo uses one. Maybe he can comment. vintageking.com/great-river-mixmaster-20 |
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Post by RicFoxx on Jan 18, 2015 20:08:58 GMT -6
I've almost pulled the trigger on one a couple of times! Looks like a perfect product.
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Post by Randge on Jan 18, 2015 21:01:38 GMT -6
The are beautiful sounding. Who wouldn't want one?
R
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 18, 2015 21:07:48 GMT -6
Very cool, thanks cowboy.. You use a hybrid system, would you prefer a product like this over the Ghost if they were priced the same?
Other than the space savings, why wouldn't someone just get something like a used Trident board for 7k. Just asking, this is a little over my head, but I'm catching up now.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 19, 2015 20:55:15 GMT -6
Well this model doesn't have as many inputs as a console. That said, I seldom use more than 4 at a time anyway. The great thing about this box is it has practically everything a console has including talk back, inserts AND mix buss inserts in a space saving unit. 4 preamps onboard. It's a true all in one solution. No downside that I can see.
I'd certainly be tempted if not for my console. Still am really.
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Post by popmann on Jan 19, 2015 21:31:39 GMT -6
It's automated.
That's actually, IMO, a fault--but, many will see it as an asset over a Ghost or old school.
I am of the workflow opinion that analog summing units should be dumb. detented pan and volume. Or none with mono switches (less flexible, though).....and that an analog mixer should be all in....EQ, signal passing faders, analog inserts, control room section....Either mix analog (even if that means you do a some subbing ITB)....or sum....or don't. The most you start having digitally controlled analog circuits and VCAs and all these recallable "settings you can't touch or see"--you get into a weird place in between.
But, Dan is a REALLY helpful guy. I have to gush on him....if you are interested, pick up the phone. Drop him an email. He's wonderfully helpful, IME.
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Post by henge on Jan 19, 2015 22:22:21 GMT -6
I've almost pulled the trigger on one a couple of times! Looks like a perfect product. Same here. I have their pres and eq and they sound great. Everything I've read about them says the MM20 sounds fantastic. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2015 9:43:08 GMT -6
Hi guys,
My experience with summing mixers is that the Rascal Audio Tonebuss and the Pheonix Nicerizer are unreal and the Dangerous, Folcrum, GR, Shadow Hills are all meh. If you're in that market, don't sleep on those two
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Post by jimwilliams on Jan 20, 2015 10:07:38 GMT -6
$7000 would have bought 10 of my Soundcraft Delta consoles. They have 32 inputs, not 4. And EQ. And 6 aux sends.
Are folks paying $7000 for short loaded 4 channel mixers?
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Post by jayfitz on Jan 20, 2015 11:21:45 GMT -6
$7000 would have bought 10 of my Soundcraft Delta consoles. They have 32 inputs, not 4. And EQ. And 6 aux sends. Are folks paying $7000 for short loaded 4 channel mixers? 4x mic/line inputs + 16x line inputs = 20. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jan 20, 2015 11:57:30 GMT -6
GR is.... well,..great, if you've got the $cratch get it, if you wanted to go a diff route there are options, you could consider building 10-8 channel passive summing mixers into dsub25 connectors for about $10 each, and then buy 10-500 series pres of all flavs to use for makeup gain, that would give you 80 channels of unmatched transparency and color for less money. I'm deciding how many of these i'm going to build currently, believe it or not, 96 channels will fit into a single rack space! The reason i'm doing it is because I love sub mixes, and using console subs steps on the sound kinda hard, I like to start clean and make the decision to how i want to color things, this way i can use my delta console channels very good pre's for the passive summing mixers makeup gain, and still have super clean on board eq/panning circuit at hand, i can also insert any comp, pre or ? or not, that i own for color as i see fit. this method requires at least a small console of course. here's 18 dsub25's in 2 rack spaces, the resistor array and buss's can be wired compactly on the backside of the dsubs no problem.  |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 20, 2015 12:14:55 GMT -6
I've seen Neve summing mixers sell for $1800 - $2,700, would the Great River sound as good or better than the Neve, or have some important advantages?? Excerpt from Sound On Sound review: "the 8816 offers far more than a simple 16-into-2 mix engine. It also provides surprisingly comprehensive monitoring and cue mix functions, incorporates versatile insert facilities, includes Neve's Recall software and can accommodate a very high-quality optional A-D stage too.This level of flexibility is, as far as I know, unmatched in any other broadly comparable external summing box," "The critical issue, though, is not so much what the unit is like to set up and use, but what it sounds like. The answer is simple: it sounds fabulous and sublime. Its huge headroom and the classic transformer mixing topology endow the mix with an effortlessly silky quality that just screams 'analogue' at the listener. " reverb.com/item/433848-neve-8816-summing-mixer?_aid=pla&pla=1&gclid=CjwKEAiAlvilBRC5ueCzkpXb4kgSJADxop1Bdytht-kXaioA6eI6E62XlJb2K40vr6CXq3w-I5gnfhoCzCzw_wcB |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 20, 2015 12:22:07 GMT -6
The thing with every summing mixer is you are basically letting somebody else decied your work flow and how you mix. Every summing device is somebody's idea of what parts of a console you need and don't need.
I would rather start with a console and decide what I need on any given project.
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Post by jayfitz on Jan 20, 2015 12:38:53 GMT -6
I've seen Neve summing mixers sell for $1800 - $2,700, would the Great River sound as good or better than the Neve, or have some important advantages?? The MM20 was designed to provide the sound and features of a console within a small footprint. There are 16 transformers in the MM20 including the 4 transformer balanced preamps on channels 1-4. Each of these channels also include an insert point, input and output gain control, 4x Aux's and a 2-Mix switch which sends that channel to the 2-bus and allows zero latency monitoring for the performer during overdubs. The pre's were specifically designed for the MM20, they are not replicated in any other GR preamp. Is it a summing box? Sure, but the feature set gives the user many console-like features as well: a full throw P&G fader, A&B Speaker selector, Tape Monitor, 2-Buss patch point, etc.... |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 20, 2015 13:06:02 GMT -6
$7000 would have bought 10 of my Soundcraft Delta consoles. They have 32 inputs, not 4. And EQ. And 6 aux sends. Are folks paying $7000 for short loaded 4 channel mixers? The point to these is space. Most home studios don't have room for a console. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 20, 2015 13:06:21 GMT -6
Thanks jayfitz, and welcome aboard.
Not being contrary, but this is from Sound On Sound's review;
Hand-built and hand-wired at the Neve factory in Burnley, England, the 8816 allows engineers and producers to mix their music on a true, albeit diminutive, Neve summing mixer. The unit provides sixteen input channels with 15dB gain, level, pan, cut/solo and cue controls. Additionally, a post-insert mix function can be used for mixing in a separate stem, or blending the mix with a special effect. With four monitor sources, two sets of speakers, independent monitor level control, talkback mic, cue send and headphone outs, the 8816 effectively upgrades a digital audio workstation to a professional mixing facility. And an onboard USB connector allows snapshots of the 8816 to be saved to a PC or Mac and recalled ready for remix.
I realize Great River makes well uhh.. Great preamps, but I'm just wondering what the Great River has that might make someone spend $4,500 more than the Neve?
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Post by RicFoxx on Jan 20, 2015 13:20:16 GMT -6
Thanks jayfitz, and welcome aboard. Not being contrary, but this is from Sound On Sound's review; Hand-built and hand-wired at the Neve factory in Burnley, England, the 8816 allows engineers and producers to mix their music on a true, albeit diminutive, Neve summing mixer. The unit provides sixteen input channels with 15dB gain, level, pan, cut/solo and cue controls. Additionally, a post-insert mix function can be used for mixing in a separate stem, or blending the mix with a special effect. With four monitor sources, two sets of speakers, independent monitor level control, talkback mic, cue send and headphone outs, the 8816 effectively upgrades a digital audio workstation to a professional mixing facility. And an onboard USB connector allows snapshots of the 8816 to be saved to a PC or Mac and recalled ready for remix. I realize Great River makes well uhh.. Great preamps, but I'm just wondering what the Great River has that might make someone spend $4,500 more than the Neve? Just a heads up Martin John Butler that 8816 has received a lot of criticism from its end users in the know. Do a google search and read away. |
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Post by jayfitz on Jan 20, 2015 13:22:53 GMT -6
I would start with the 4-channels of transformer based preamps.. as mentioned, they are a new design and hold their own with the highest end pre's on the market. And a 4ch high end pre can run up to $4500 Also, all those transformers (adding such big tone) do cost a few dollars each. The fader and meters, again, are high end components and as such, cost. So let's go with the 4x preamps and the cost of components themselves adding to the price
But, as mentioned by others, this unit was designed for features and SOUND...and it provides such a huge sound for a little box.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 20, 2015 13:23:46 GMT -6
Thanks jayfitz, and welcome aboard. Not being contrary, but this is from Sound On Sound's review; Hand-built and hand-wired at the Neve factory in Burnley, England, the 8816 allows engineers and producers to mix their music on a true, albeit diminutive, Neve summing mixer. The unit provides sixteen input channels with 15dB gain, level, pan, cut/solo and cue controls. Additionally, a post-insert mix function can be used for mixing in a separate stem, or blending the mix with a special effect. With four monitor sources, two sets of speakers, independent monitor level control, talkback mic, cue send and headphone outs, the 8816 effectively upgrades a digital audio workstation to a professional mixing facility. And an onboard USB connector allows snapshots of the 8816 to be saved to a PC or Mac and recalled ready for remix. I realize Great River makes well uhh.. Great preamps, but I'm just wondering what the Great River has that might make someone spend $4,500 more than the Neve? The Neve is $3700, so more like a $3300 difference. The GR has 4 built in preamps, transformers on each channel, and additional aux sends. The GR is a more comprehensive unit. $7k is hard to swallow, but I've seen them sell for $3-4k used. Much easier to swallow at that price imo. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 20, 2015 14:06:28 GMT -6
Cool. I find it hard to wrap my head around a hybrid mixing situation, but I guess I'd get over it if I tried it. So, it's mainly space savings? ( which is cool by me). Is there an equivalent quality sound board that costs about the same?
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