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Post by EmRR on Jul 11, 2016 12:56:19 GMT -6
Yep, I've heard you say it many times Bob. This one gives up the HPF switch if you do it like Max suggests, then you can switch between unmodified and modified. I added another internal switch so the HPF is still available in unmodified mode. I recall you saying you never see anyone use the HPF either, so maybe Max's method suits most people.
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Post by sll on Jul 11, 2016 14:46:01 GMT -6
I have a real 67 and the TLM Max mod now. I wouldn't touch a thing on my real one, sounds stellar as is. I'm trying to get my TLM modded one to sound like the real one. It is way too dark by comparison. I've messed with smaller values of C17 (10pf was very bright) 100pf is what was in there. The original has an 82pf which sounds better in the TLM than the 100pf. I would not want to take C17 out completely however, would change the gain and make the circuit unstable. I'm slowly getting the TLM to sound closer to my real 67. It involved changing a few things that I won't go into detail in public however.
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Post by drbill on Jul 11, 2016 15:20:43 GMT -6
I have a real 67 and the TLM Max mod now. I wouldn't touch a thing on my real one, sounds stellar as is. I'm trying to get my TLM modded one to sound like the real one. It is way too dark by comparison. I've messed with smaller values of C17 (10pf was very bright) 100pf is what was in there. The original has an 82pf which sounds better in the TLM than the 100pf. I would not want to take C17 out completely however, would change the gain and make the circuit unstable. I'm slowly getting the TLM to sound closer to my real 67. It involved changing a few things that I won't go into detail in public however. Scott - are you aware if your legit 67 has been modded before you got it or not. Almost all the "brighter" 67's I've run across have been modded to be that way. The stock 67's @ Capitol that I've used (they have 16 I believe) have been "dark" in comparison to other mics.
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Post by EmRR on Jul 11, 2016 15:38:37 GMT -6
Thanks for the report Scott. I see others saying this mod is an exact match for their other U67's. May be that much variation in the olds ones out there, I can only guess, which is just more blah blah. The signature of any cap swaps could easily change the perception of treble without altering actual response, the list of variables is endless. Since I haven't tried lifting C17, I can't say how it compares to Max's mod concept, which is certainly very bright in comparison to stock. His mod appears to alter the feedback path for both treble and bass by shorting it out mostly, and this leaves C17 as a shunt to ground, so it may be less bright than removing it altogether, depending on what happens in the rest of the path. I assume the value range for C17 has to do with transformer variation more than anything else, a final tuning towards a stated response.
A couple of guys at that other place who've tried the mod have said "oh, those U67's I use must be modified now that I hear this".
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Post by indiehouse on Jul 11, 2016 16:23:25 GMT -6
I have a real 67 and the TLM Max mod now. I wouldn't touch a thing on my real one, sounds stellar as is. I'm trying to get my TLM modded one to sound like the real one. It is way too dark by comparison. I've messed with smaller values of C17 (10pf was very bright) 100pf is what was in there. The original has an 82pf which sounds better in the TLM than the 100pf. I would not want to take C17 out completely however, would change the gain and make the circuit unstable. I'm slowly getting the TLM to sound closer to my real 67. It involved changing a few things that I won't go into detail in public however. Scott - are you aware if your legit 67 has been modded before you got it or not. Almost all the "brighter" 67's I've run across have been modded to be that way. The stock 67's @ Capitol that I've used (they have 16 I believe) have been "dark" in comparison to other mics. You think you'll try this new mod on your TLM 67 maxmod? Be curious to know if it got closer to your 67.
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Post by sll on Jul 11, 2016 16:46:18 GMT -6
I have a real 67 and the TLM Max mod now. I wouldn't touch a thing on my real one, sounds stellar as is. I'm trying to get my TLM modded one to sound like the real one. It is way too dark by comparison. I've messed with smaller values of C17 (10pf was very bright) 100pf is what was in there. The original has an 82pf which sounds better in the TLM than the 100pf. I would not want to take C17 out completely however, would change the gain and make the circuit unstable. I'm slowly getting the TLM to sound closer to my real 67. It involved changing a few things that I won't go into detail in public however. Scott - are you aware if your legit 67 has been modded before you got it or not. Almost all the "brighter" 67's I've run across have been modded to be that way. The stock 67's @ Capitol that I've used (they have 16 I believe) have been "dark" in comparison to other mics. I am 100% certain my 67 is stock. S2, C17, all the filter networks are original and in tact. Even the capsule is original and has not been reskinned yet. I wouldn't say it's bright, but the TLM modded mic sounds rolled off in comparison. I have it a lot closer now. My real 67 sounds incredible, and yes it's a little darker compared to an 87 or some other condensers.
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Post by drbill on Jul 11, 2016 17:51:43 GMT -6
Scott - are you aware if your legit 67 has been modded before you got it or not. Almost all the "brighter" 67's I've run across have been modded to be that way. The stock 67's @ Capitol that I've used (they have 16 I believe) have been "dark" in comparison to other mics. I am 100% certain my 67 is stock. S2, C17, all the filter networks are original and in tact. Even the capsule is original and has not been reskinned yet. I wouldn't say it's bright, but the TLM modded mic sounds rolled off in comparison. I have it a lot closer now. My real 67 sounds incredible, and yes it's a little darker compared to an 87 or some other condensers. Scott - Dan has told me a lot about your 67. I have zero doubts it sounds fantastic. Most if not ALL the 67's I've used sound SIGNIFICANTLY darker - not a little darker - than an 87 - at least to me (compared to vintage 87's not the AI's). Now....one man's "significant" might be another man's "little", but it still leaves me perplexed and wondering..... All that said, I'd love to hear your 67 at some point after all the praise I've heard. I did not do the ioaudio 67 because they do not work correctly with a vintage 87 - which is what I own. I'm not sure what Max didn't like about the mod on vintage 87's, but he didn't think it sounded like the 67's he was emulating - and he withdrew is offering for that mic swap. At any rate, I ended up with a RMS M269 and couldn't be happier. I don't have the time, knowledge, expertise or patience to tweak on mics like you and Dan, and although not a "clone", the RMS M269 is a "tribute" and gets me close enough right out of the box into the territory of 67's at a fair price. If I can ever part with it long enough, I should send it back to Dan for you guys to listen to. Cheers, bp
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Post by sll on Jul 11, 2016 19:06:55 GMT -6
I am 100% certain my 67 is stock. S2, C17, all the filter networks are original and in tact. Even the capsule is original and has not been reskinned yet. I wouldn't say it's bright, but the TLM modded mic sounds rolled off in comparison. I have it a lot closer now. My real 67 sounds incredible, and yes it's a little darker compared to an 87 or some other condensers. Scott - Dan has told me a lot about your 67. I have zero doubts it sounds fantastic. Most if not ALL the 67's I've used sound SIGNIFICANTLY darker - not a little darker - than an 87 - at least to me (compared to vintage 87's not the AI's). Now....one man's "significant" might be another man's "little", but it still leaves me perplexed and wondering..... All that said, I'd love to hear your 67 at some point after all the praise I've heard. I did not do the ioaudio 67 because they do not work correctly with a vintage 87 - which is what I own. I'm not sure what Max didn't like about the mod on vintage 87's, but he didn't think it sounded like the 67's he was emulating - and he withdrew is offering for that mic swap. At any rate, I ended up with a RMS M269 and couldn't be happier. I don't have the time, knowledge, expertise or patience to tweak on mics like you and Dan, and although not a "clone", the RMS M269 is a "tribute" and gets me close enough right out of the box into the territory of 67's at a fair price. If I can ever part with it long enough, I should send it back to Dan for you guys to listen to. Cheers, bp Other 67s I've heard were darker than an 87 as well. My TLM modded mic was leaning towards ribbon mic top end in comparison however, and my real 67 is not overly bright. It's more of an openness and clarity that's missing in the other one. I would like to hear your RMS M269 sometime.
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Post by drbill on Jul 11, 2016 20:22:12 GMT -6
Scott - Dan has told me a lot about your 67. I have zero doubts it sounds fantastic. Most if not ALL the 67's I've used sound SIGNIFICANTLY darker - not a little darker - than an 87 - at least to me (compared to vintage 87's not the AI's). Now....one man's "significant" might be another man's "little", but it still leaves me perplexed and wondering..... All that said, I'd love to hear your 67 at some point after all the praise I've heard. I did not do the ioaudio 67 because they do not work correctly with a vintage 87 - which is what I own. I'm not sure what Max didn't like about the mod on vintage 87's, but he didn't think it sounded like the 67's he was emulating - and he withdrew is offering for that mic swap. At any rate, I ended up with a RMS M269 and couldn't be happier. I don't have the time, knowledge, expertise or patience to tweak on mics like you and Dan, and although not a "clone", the RMS M269 is a "tribute" and gets me close enough right out of the box into the territory of 67's at a fair price. If I can ever part with it long enough, I should send it back to Dan for you guys to listen to. Cheers, bp Other 67s I've heard were darker than an 87 as well. My TLM modded mic was leaning towards ribbon mic top end in comparison however, and my real 67 is not overly bright. It's more of an openness and clarity that's missing in the other one. I would like to hear your RMS M269 sometime. That's cool Scott!! You have to look long and hard or be extremely lucky to get a mic like your 67. I told Dan I didn't want to hear it. I don't want to know. Some have the magic pixie dust, others can be easily replicated by modern "clones" and others are just turds that sit there. I went to Capitol once to shoot out mics. I had FrankS's U48, 44, C12's, 87's, 67's, M249 and on and on. About 30 mics up. And the ONLY one that made me cry to want it - IF - I had the money and - IF - it was up FS - neither of which were doable - was the 249. The modern Joly mics I was checking out were CLOSE enough. Very close. One thing about the GOOD vintage mics is what you describe. Most old mics I've used (40+ y/o) were Neumann's of one variety or another and the occasional C12. The one thing that I notice (and Dan agrees) is that they are NOT bright, yet somehow are able to retain the open-ness up top. Especially with a touch of EQ. They also seem to saturate in a cool way that new mics don't when you push em hard. That seems to be pretty universal in the good specimens. Sounds like yours is RIGHT there as well. Both my new (old) KM53-w/83 cap's from the early 50's are like that. Deceptively "dark" and yet they open up gloriously with only a touch of EQ. Makes you wonder how that beautiful top is hiding under the "dark" pseudo patina...... The immaculate condition KM86's that I got in the same batch with Dan from Bobby are the same. Just BRILLIANT mics. I have yet to pull it off the stand. I probably like it better than the 53's as a more universal tool, although the 53's are something special no doubt. Anyway, it sounds like your 67 is pushing more towards 269 land. Which for most vocal applications is a good thing I think. I think of the RMS M269 as more "open" than a 67 on the top, but not harsh, and beautifully reactive to tiny amounts of EQ. At any rate, ENJOY your 67. I will not go on the hunt for one like yours. My guess is that either you auditioned 40-50 mics till you found sleeping beauty or you lucked out big time. Either way, you're blessed. ENJOY!!!! And if you ever decide to sell it......and if Dan doesn't confiscate it 2 seconds after the words leave your lips.....give me a call. I'd be interested! A great 67 is quite possibly the most versatile mic ever made IMO.
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Post by sll on Jul 11, 2016 20:32:28 GMT -6
Other 67s I've heard were darker than an 87 as well. My TLM modded mic was leaning towards ribbon mic top end in comparison however, and my real 67 is not overly bright. It's more of an openness and clarity that's missing in the other one. I would like to hear your RMS M269 sometime. That's cool Scott!! You have to look long and hard or be extremely lucky to get a mic like your 67. I told Dan I didn't want to hear it. I don't want to know. Some have the magic pixie dust, others can be easily replicated by modern "clones" and others are just turds that sit there. I went to Capitol once to shoot out mics. I had FrankS's U48, 44, C12's, 87's, 67's, M249 and on and on. About 30 mics up. And the ONLY one that made me cry to want it - IF - I had the money and - IF - it was up FS - neither of which were doable - was the 249. The modern Joly mics I was checking out were CLOSE enough. Very close. One thing about the GOOD vintage mics is what you describe. Most old mics I've used (40+ y/o) were Neumann's of one variety or another and the occasional C12. The one thing that I notice (and Dan agrees) is that they are NOT bright, yet somehow are able to retain the open-ness up top. Especially with a touch of EQ. They also seem to saturate in a cool way that new mics don't when you push em hard. That seems to be pretty universal in the good specimens. Sounds like yours is RIGHT there as well. Both my new (old) KM53-w/83 cap's from the early 50's are like that. Deceptively "dark" and yet they open up gloriously with only a touch of EQ. Makes you wonder how that beautiful top is hiding under the "dark" pseudo patina...... The immaculate condition KM86's that I got in the same batch with Dan from Bobby are the same. Just BRILLIANT mics. I have yet to pull it off the stand. I probably like it better than the 53's as a more universal tool, although the 53's are something special no doubt. Anyway, it sounds like your 67 is pushing more towards 269 land. Which for most vocal applications is a good thing I think. I think of the RMS M269 as more "open" than a 67 on the top, but not harsh, and beautifully reactive to tiny amounts of EQ. At any rate, ENJOY your 67. I will not go on the hunt for one like yours. My guess is that either you auditioned 40-50 mics till you found sleeping beauty or you lucked out big time. Either way, you're blessed. ENJOY!!!! And if you ever decide to sell it......and if Dan doesn't confiscate it 2 seconds after the words leave your lips.....give me a call. I'd be interested! A great 67 is quite possibly the most versatile mic ever made IMO. I did get lucky with my 67. Someone actually auditioned it for me and it worked out great. You're right, there's a saturation in vintage mics when pushed. More second order harmonics, makes things thicker. It's like magic. KM86s are great. I have lusted after a KM54, but that's probably not going to happen. Just having the 67 is amazing enough for me. If I ever have to sell it, and Dan does not want it, I will keep you in mind. I hope I never have to sell it though, but you never know what curve life will throw at you.
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Post by EmRR on Jul 11, 2016 20:36:21 GMT -6
And this is true of good old tube preamps as well.
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Post by sll on Jul 11, 2016 20:40:53 GMT -6
And this is true of good old tube preamps as well. Very true. I have a pair of Langevin 117a's. Plug the 67 into those and it's mojo city. Open up a 10K shelf and it never gets harsh.
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Post by EmRR on Jul 11, 2016 20:46:36 GMT -6
Yeah, those are good sounding amps. I once had 4 of them that were NOS, hadn't had the coupling caps installed when I got them. Let them go only because they were like running 4 stove burners on medium in the control room.....
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Post by sll on Jul 11, 2016 20:56:33 GMT -6
Yeah, those are good sounding amps. I once had 4 of them that were NOS, hadn't had the coupling caps installed when I got them. Let them go only because they were like running 4 stove burners on medium in the control room..... I know. It's like having a Fender tweed amp just for a mic or line amp. 2 6V6s for outputs? that's just crazy. But they do sound good. I can't imagine how hot some of those old studios got in the control room. Abbey Road for instance, those tube consoles running all day and night. Would not want that air-conditioning bill.
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Post by EmRR on Jul 11, 2016 21:02:25 GMT -6
Nothing like that era of amps that were interchangeable monitor or program, burning monitor level class A power at all times. I have a ton of small signal tube gear running, and that gets plenty hot. In the old dead guys favor, the didn't run so many channels as we.
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Post by mrtunes7 on May 24, 2017 5:32:24 GMT -6
Just as an aside... wasn't there a rapper named 'Fabolous' once upon a time? Yes, and apparently he had his teeth fixed for $40k! (Or should I say, had his teeth mod.?).
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Post by Ward on May 24, 2017 6:07:48 GMT -6
FORTY THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR DENTAL MODS?
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Post by jakeharris on May 24, 2017 11:39:41 GMT -6
Other 67s I've heard were darker than an 87 as well. My TLM modded mic was leaning towards ribbon mic top end in comparison however, and my real 67 is not overly bright. It's more of an openness and clarity that's missing in the other one. I would like to hear your RMS M269 sometime. Have you changed the cable, and tube to EF86?
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Post by sll on May 24, 2017 12:00:11 GMT -6
Other 67s I've heard were darker than an 87 as well. My TLM modded mic was leaning towards ribbon mic top end in comparison however, and my real 67 is not overly bright. It's more of an openness and clarity that's missing in the other one. I would like to hear your RMS M269 sometime. Have you changed the cable, and tube to EF86? Tube was always an EF86. Swapped tubes from original 67 to the TLM, no real difference. Cable is a 7 pin Gotham tube mic cable, probably only 15' long. I changed the output transformer and it sounds very close to the real 67, meaning the supplied BV-12 was rolling off a lot of top end.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 24, 2017 12:22:00 GMT -6
Have you changed the cable, and tube to EF86? Tube was always an EF86. Swapped tubes from original 67 to the TLM, no real difference. Cable is a 7 pin Gotham tube mic cable, probably only 15' long. I changed the output transformer and it sounds very close to the real 67, meaning the supplied BV-12 was rolling off a lot of top end. Oh - so you've gotten it sounding good, sll?
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Post by sll on May 24, 2017 12:25:28 GMT -6
Tube was always an EF86. Swapped tubes from original 67 to the TLM, no real difference. Cable is a 7 pin Gotham tube mic cable, probably only 15' long. I changed the output transformer and it sounds very close to the real 67, meaning the supplied BV-12 was rolling off a lot of top end. Oh - so you've gotten it sounding good, sll ? Yes, finally. It took finding some vintage components to do so.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 24, 2017 12:40:49 GMT -6
Still makes it pretty tempting...but I hear rumors...about things...
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Post by aremos on May 24, 2017 12:48:56 GMT -6
Still makes it pretty tempting...but I hear rumors...about things... Your innuendo, again, keeps suggesting there's a 67 involved. In another thread, commenting on another remark you made, I said "Neumann's 2nd reissue of the U67"?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 12:51:03 GMT -6
Still makes it pretty tempting...but I hear rumors...about things... Hmmmm... cagey much? Again you allude to wanting to wait on some as-yet-unknown 67-related product in the pipeline? Seems like you're dying to share but can't yet. Perhaps some mic company in the greater Nashville area?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on May 24, 2017 12:52:47 GMT -6
Still makes it pretty tempting...but I hear rumors...about things... Always been a big fan of Rumors, the album that is.
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