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Post by porkyman on Oct 20, 2014 21:16:27 GMT -6
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 20, 2014 23:01:51 GMT -6
no, but i'm intrigued! do you have a link?
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Post by porkyman on Oct 21, 2014 0:05:11 GMT -6
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Post by porkyman on Oct 21, 2014 0:08:06 GMT -6
its mostly surface mount just like the red dots. they come mounted already too so no special skills required.
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Post by winetree on Oct 21, 2014 1:12:19 GMT -6
Just ordered 6 of them. I'll have to test them out.
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Post by jeromemason on Oct 21, 2014 2:00:32 GMT -6
I saw these a couple of days ago and was wondering if they were comparable to the red dots. If so I'll be getting a few myself.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Oct 21, 2014 7:46:21 GMT -6
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 21, 2014 8:40:27 GMT -6
The use of the words red and blue are not arbitrary, he jumped right on the coat tails of our friend and fellow RGO member Scott Liebers, who indeed made the arbitrary names red/blue dots a household name for audio nerds like myself, not exactly what I'd call cool....
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 21, 2014 9:06:23 GMT -6
This actually pissed me off to the point I sent an email saying this..
edit; REMOVED, too harsh
the only way this is even remotely cool is if whistle rock turns out to be Scott himself, and if it is, sorry Scott 8)
but its not likely...
Scott said it was ok
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Post by porkyman on Oct 21, 2014 14:29:35 GMT -6
The use of the words red and blue are not arbitrary, he jumped right on the coat tails of our friend and fellow RGO member Scott Liebers, who indeed made the arbitrary names red/blue dots a household name for audio nerds like myself, not exactly what I'd call cool.... I dont have a problem with it at all. Red dots arent diy. Theyre comercial products. They dont deserve the same good faith. Especially at that apparent mark up. Thats just commerce. Its not like micnmod. Unless of course its an exact copy.... Theres nothing wrong with naming your product after what its emulating. If didn't name it red how would we know what they were emulating. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 21, 2014 14:41:11 GMT -6
The use of the words red and blue are not arbitrary, he jumped right on the coat tails of our friend and fellow RGO member Scott Liebers, who indeed made the arbitrary names red/blue dots a household name for audio nerds like myself, not exactly what I'd call cool.... I dont have a problem with it at all. Red dots arent diy. Theyre comercial products. They dont deserve the same good faith. Especially at that apparent mark up. Thats just commerce. Its not like micnmod. Unless of course its an exact copy.... Theres nothing wrong with naming your product after what its emulating. If didn't name it red how would we know what they were emulating. ehh, can you show me a single 2520 op amp in history named red or blue anything besides the Liebers red or blue dot? NO, you cant, The API 2520 op amps are NOT called red, or blue dots, Scott Liebers named his op amps Red dots and Blue dots based on his marking them for id purposes with his wife's fingernail polish, he creatively designed his version of the opamps with modern components to achieve the old huntington sound(red dot), and he nailed it! everyone knows he nailed it, they've deservedly become VERY popular. Edit; removed due to me being too harsh |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 21, 2014 17:30:15 GMT -6
Our resident attack dog has found a leg to maul...
but I kinda agree...the guy could call them something else - it's kinda suspect. Believe me, I am experiencing a similar frustration right now...one of my favorite songs that I've written - that has a very specific title - just showed up as a new song (and title of the album) on a band's new record. Now, it could be a big coincidence, but I know my song was pitched to them more than several times...and one of the people that pitched it to them had mentioned how she really liked the song. But again - I could totally be jumping to conclusions and be one of the unluckiest songwriters on the planet. Problem is, there's no way to prove it in either of these cases. You can't copyright a title...or an adjective.
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Post by drbill on Oct 21, 2014 18:04:45 GMT -6
Not to be devil's advocate, but what about the GAR 2520? Should it have been called the 2025? Even at that, it's an obvious tip of the hat to API's DOA. And what about all the XYZ-47 mics out there? Max's included. Should they not designate with that particular number? It's a slippery slope once you jump on. Yeah, the whistle rock guys should have gone elsewhere nomenclature wise, but it's not like they were the first to capitalize on a popular product.
I try not to let these things bother me. If he was bothered by it, Scott could send them a polite "please cease and desist" note. All that said, I do try to reward those taking the high road with my purchases. Most guys are smart enough to know the innovators from the imitators.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 21, 2014 19:22:44 GMT -6
Yes JK, i like to protect people i respect when i see them getting ripped, and i'm pretty careful about the legs i go after 8)
Bill, come on buddy, you make no sense here, the 2520 doa is an api design that probably held a patent, that patent has long since expired, they are good for 17 1/2 years(i have one of them, 14 years left and counting), API doesn't even make the Huntington anymore, and even if they did, people are entitled to copy the 2520 design and sell it under their own names now.
But the name GAR, SL RED/BLUE are unique to these guys, the red/blue are tied directly to SL's specific products, there is NO historical reason to use the red/blue identifier pertaining to API clones, this is closer to the guy calling himself API. Red dot and Blue dot were arbitrary when Scott coined them, and now he made it popular, this guy knows that, and he's leaching Scott's success, period, it's disrespectful, why would you convolute that? Should i come out with a rig and call it...
Mr Bills Silver Bullet "oh noooo", edit; too inflammatory .
This dude could have published any name, followed by "API 2520 op amp clones", but he didn't, he went after Scotts identifier, and you know DAMN well he knew exactly what he was doing.
edit; again
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Post by drbill on Oct 21, 2014 19:36:30 GMT -6
I'm not defending it. Just saying it's common practice, and that I reward innovation over imitation. Imitators and rip off artists will always exist.
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 21, 2014 19:39:25 GMT -6
I don't disagree, Tony...I just thought it was funny that it got your Italian blood boiling...Maybe this will make Scott aware and he will contact him.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,958 
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Post by ericn on Oct 21, 2014 19:44:37 GMT -6
Tony I agree with you and understand, but bro you do have to see the humor in the fact that you are calling out a clone of a clone !
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 21, 2014 21:05:35 GMT -6
Tony I agree with you and understand, but bro you do have to see the humor in the fact that you are calling out a clone of a clone ! I get on the surface why it looks like i'm over reacting, but i'm really not at all, i was thinking about ordering some of those until it occurred to me that he was using RED and BLUE in his descriptions. I get really defensive about this for one simple reason, I value the greatly talented people providing US with opportunities to acquire these pro audio unobtainiums, guys taking from others put us on the precipice of losing those opportunities all together. These astronomically expensive and very sought after pieces that the original companies DO NOT MAKE ANYMORE, are painstakingly R&D'd, redesigned with available modern parts and offered to a mostly very grateful community of audio guys, it has to be worth the effort for the guys who are smart enough to come up with these solutions, or the game is over. Scott's not making a killing off of these, he worked his butt off to get the sound, and if some can just come in, copy his efforts and NAME(for god sakes), and we as a community support and purchase that stuff, then talented guys like Scott will just not bother the next time, and we're all screwed. So really there is NOTHING funny about it to me, it's a HUGE deal. Again, the guys who find ways to recreate such unobtainiums, and provide us with such amazing opportunities must be respected at all costs, or we lose them forever and future projects and unobtainiums will never again materialize. edit; scrubbed of harshness |
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Post by porkyman on Oct 21, 2014 22:10:00 GMT -6
i respect your opinion but do you feel the same about dave thomas and stellar. im sure he put just as much care and passion (probably much more) into his microphone "cm" 47. then stellar comes out with the exact same microphone minus the secondary cathode-follower circuit, for half the price, and calls it the "cm" 6. why? because thats the mic its emulating. if it was emulating an sm7 im sure they would have called it the "sm" x. to me it would be much worse if they called it something completely different and played it off like an original idea.
Mr. thomas emulated a great product to deliver quality at an affordable price. Stellar found a cheaper way to get it to the people. Api have a great product. jeff found a cheaper way to get it to the people (to all our benefit). Scott found a cheaper way to get huntington 2520's to the people. whistle rock found a cheaper way to get red dots to the people. i dont want to disparage any of these people, especially jeff hes my hero. but none of them invented these products. they all copied other peoples work. its like getting upset at creedance for covering marvin gays version of a smokey robinson song written by Strong and Whitfield. they're all great versions, as are all these clones.
btw "mr whistlerock" is not a random goofball. hes a diyer from prodigy. ubk shot his original ml2520 against the red and the gar a long time ago. i think it was before vp26 even came out. thats what led me to his website in the first place. i preferred the ml2520 over the others in the clips ive heard. in fact im pretty sure jeff knows him and has tried his stuff in his own gear before. hopefully this thread will reach him and well find out what the scoop is.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 21, 2014 23:19:22 GMT -6
Can you not see the forest for the trees? why is this hard to understand? Did you read the previous posts? we must value the guys who bring us the good stuff, if do nothings come in and easily lift names and layouts from the guys who worked hard to develop modern day versions, with modern day components, all with support from us, then the talents are gone, and we're left with the know nothing Yannic types, and WE WILL ALL LOSE. Again, Liebers laboriously came up with a way to achieve the sound of the un available huntington with modern components, Max did the same with the MK47, Jeff does amazing and original things in the old school API vein that are better than API imo, these are not straight copies, these guys are talented, and must be respected by us in the audio community, or we will lose them. and btw, what happened to D Thomas is also lame as hell if what you say is true. i'm done here, i'm getting heart burn  , i've said what i needed to say, again lol |
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Post by keymod on Oct 22, 2014 5:42:47 GMT -6
Mike has posted a thread over at Group DIY explaining his position. I accept his explanation. He pretty much received unanimous support over there, even from Gary. It was suggested that he contact Scott just to be sure that there is no animosity. I think Mike's reaching out shows a lot of class.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 22, 2014 10:57:24 GMT -6
OK, i went back and scrubbed my posts a bit of the harshness, it seems Scott Liebers is ok with this, and i respect that, looks like the red and blue pcbs were accidental? I should have contacted Scott directly, my bad, i'm a slow learnerer 8) But I do believe that my posts are overall on target, if the guys that come up with hard worked, difficult solutions to circumvent extinct products, or create better, are easily lifted, and not respected by the audio community, they will simply stop coming up with stuff, I do not want to see this happen, do you? Has anyone compared a Red dot to a current API 2520? I have, and my Red dots are amazing imo, i've had this realization with a host of boutique pieces and DIY projects. now i have heartburn and an upset stomach ....  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Oct 22, 2014 18:39:34 GMT -6
Why can't this guy just change his names? If it's not that big a deal, then just do it.
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Post by tonycamphd on Oct 22, 2014 19:08:17 GMT -6
Why can't this guy just change his names? If it's not that big a deal, then just do it. I think he's going to do that, at least thats what he he eluded to on the GDIY thread. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Oct 22, 2014 19:09:52 GMT -6
Why can't this guy just change his names? If it's not that big a deal, then just do it. I think he's going to do that, at least thats what he he eluded to on the GDIY thread. Got a link? |
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, i've said what i needed to say, again lol
