outuvphaze
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Riders on the storm... Riders on the storm...
Posts: 33 
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Post by outuvphaze on Jul 27, 2014 8:20:05 GMT -6
My primary nearfields are Focal SM8's. I had initially purchased the IsoAcoustics product. I had purchased them for the SM8's which I use "HORIZONTAL". There were problems with it from the start. In the vertical position the IsoAcoustics product held stable, but the moment that I went to my usual Horizontal position, the IsoAcoustics stand started to sink on the side of the LF driver. In fact, both stands (L & R) started to sag on the side of the LF driver. I called the company (Isoacousotic) directly, and I have to tell you that I did not find them to be very helpful. They mentioned the possibility of an airpocket on the HF side. Took it apart twice and neurotically assembled it again thinking that I must be the most ignorant person on the planet, and the same thing continued to occur. I fire my monitors 5 degrees down. So with the isoacoustics product you need to insert feet inside of the piping of the back row to accomplish this. The only way to balance out the sag was to insert one the smaller of the two sizes of spacers that the unit comes with into the sagging LF driver side of both acoustic decouplers in front. to try offer some way of compensating for the sag in question. But wait.... That's not all Now that I had apparently found a make shift solution, I noticed that one monitor was 3 degrees higher that the other in terms of it's downward firing. So, while I had now corrected or rather leveled the front end of the enclosure, one monitor was higher than the other. My monitor stands are perfectly level and of the same height, the floor is level also  There were no air pockets. Just what I would consider to be., in my humble opinion, 'poor build quality'. I called my friends at Studio Economik. These guys always have my back. I sent them a photo of the situation and they said;"bring them in and we'll switch them out or go for the Primacoustic product, whichever you prefer". I elected to go with the Primacoustic RX9 downfire +5. Night and day. No hassles, no surprises. It does exactly what it says it does, and it does it well. You might pay more for the Primacoustic product, but the lack of headache and the build quality of the product speaks for itself. When you look at the surface coverage of the Primacoustic product vs IsoAcoustic, you will see that the Primacoustic Recoil Stabilizer, covers the entire underside of the SM8. It's very stable. Perhaps Isoacoustic could recommend a wider model in the future for the SM8 or SM9's, thus offering support at the corners of the enclosure rather than only the middle. Perhaps 6 contact points vs 4? (See photo) The rep that I spoke to on the phone said; "Oh, the SM8 is a pretty heavy enclosure". Really??? It's far from being a Barefoot. It's a nearfield with one LF driver. In stark contrast (as stated), the IsoAcoustic decoupler, (the model as seen in these two photos is their recommended model for the SM 8 and SM9) finds it's contact point with the enclosure to be much more central and not at the corners of the enclosure. It's (the ISO stand) in my experience, much less stable when directly compared to the Primacoustic. You get what you pay for. A picture is worth a thousand words. Attachments:
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 27, 2014 8:55:13 GMT -6
I have the ISO stand...had to push really hard to make them all the same length...My only complaint is that I feel they might be a bit too high now.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 27, 2014 8:57:10 GMT -6
Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding, an isolation mount for a monitor should decouple it from the furniture it's resting on without causing instability, or reflecting sound waves, both of these cause distortion, it looks by the pictures that the PA perpatrates both offenses(foam/extends beyond the enclosure?)as well as the ISO being unstable, I'd also add that from my understanding, horizontal firing of monitors isn't a good idea, it skews the imaging, don't some designers place tweets to time align frequency arrival? I personally mix freqs hi to low/ top to bottom. I used to fire horizontally, but not for the last 15 years now.
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outuvphaze
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Riders on the storm... Riders on the storm...
Posts: 33
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Post by outuvphaze on Jul 27, 2014 11:59:40 GMT -6
With the Focal software you can change the time align equation. Focal actually states that you can fire Vertical or Horizontal as long as you set up the software in accordance, which controls the monitor via serial port or infrared. Within the software you can adjust for Horiz. or vertical, as well as distance from listening position, delay, and EQ if you really wanted to adjust EQ amongst other things.
I've used them both Vertical and Horizontal, and I much prefer the Horizontal for this particular box. Actually the foam does not go past the enclosure at all. It's actually a perfect fit. Perhaps it's the angle of the photo. The front and back of the enclosure are flush. What goes beyond the front edge of the monitor is merely the logo and metal edge which is above the foam base. They state that it has a positive effect on standing waves.
What I can tell you is that I find the image tighter in the low end with the Primacoustic Recoil stabilizer.
The Isoacoustic product just left a bad taste in my mouth after fiddling with the thing for weeks, and it simply would not support horizontal firing even though it states as such in their documentation.
Cheers,
John
"In the land of the blind, auto-tune is King"
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outuvphaze
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Riders on the storm... Riders on the storm...
Posts: 33
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Post by outuvphaze on Jul 27, 2014 12:01:53 GMT -6
I have the ISO stand...had to push really hard to make them all the same length...My only complaint is that I feel they might be a bit too high now. John, I wouldn't mind too high so much, I can adjust the stand for that, but you'd like both stands to be even out of the box, don't you think? lol What I can tell you is that I like the tightness and low low mid frequency tightness that I am hearing with the recoil stabilizer. Cheers, John "In the land of the blind, auto-tune is King" |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 27, 2014 12:06:38 GMT -6
Here's a question...the logo of the ISO should be in the front of the pic. Are you sure you had them lined up correctly? I know I didn't in the beginning.
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outuvphaze
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Riders on the storm... Riders on the storm...
Posts: 33
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Post by outuvphaze on Jul 27, 2014 12:08:14 GMT -6
Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding, an isolation mount for a monitor should decouple it from the furniture it's resting on without causing instability, or reflecting sound waves, both of these cause distortion, it looks by the pictures that the PA perpatrates both offenses(foam/extends beyond the enclosure?)as well as the ISO being unstable, I'd also add that from my understanding, horizontal firing of monitors isn't a good idea, it skews the imaging, don't some designers place tweets to time align frequency arrival? I personally mix freqs hi to low/ top to bottom. I used to fire horizontally, but not for the last 15 years now. Hey Tony, These are my primary nearfields, I have another set that is set Vertical. I mix from both. I like the Focals Horizontal. It's a matter of personal choice and it's not discouraged from the manufacturer. The strength of the SM 8 or so I think is not that it is only quite surgical, but the alignment software makes a difference. Otherwise I would agree with you in total, versus in part. The Genelec's I fire Vertical. I A/B back and forth. |
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outuvphaze
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Riders on the storm... Riders on the storm...
Posts: 33
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Post by outuvphaze on Jul 27, 2014 12:11:59 GMT -6
That's a good question John. For Horizontal Firing The logo has to be pointed to the side, otherwise the box will fall over. I don't personally understand why they recommend such a small stand for the SM8. For Vertical I set the up the way that you describe. However, my intention was not to fire them vertical. I spent, what seems like a long time on the phone with their head office and I can tell you it was like talking to a tree in winter:)
The logo is on the short and not on the long.
John
"In the land of the blind auto-tune is King"
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 27, 2014 12:13:40 GMT -6
Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding, an isolation mount for a monitor should decouple it from the furniture it's resting on without causing instability, or reflecting sound waves, both of these cause distortion, it looks by the pictures that the PA perpatrates both offenses(foam/extends beyond the enclosure?)as well as the ISO being unstable, I'd also add that from my understanding, horizontal firing of monitors isn't a good idea, it skews the imaging, don't some designers place tweets to time align frequency arrival? I personally mix freqs hi to low/ top to bottom. I used to fire horizontally, but not for the last 15 years now. Hey Tony, These are my primary nearfields, I have another set that is set Vertical. I mix from both. I like the Focals Horizontal. It's a matter of personal choice and it's not discouraged from the manufacturer. The strength of the SM 8 or so I think is not that it is only quite surgical, but the alignment software makes a difference. Otherwise I would agree with you in total, versus in part. The Genelec's I fire Vertical. I A/B back and forth. i had no idea/no experience with the focals and their software? But hey, if i works, it works, there are lots of ways to skin right. i have to look into how that alignment software works?? |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 27, 2014 12:18:43 GMT -6
That's a good question John. For Horizontal Firing The logo has to be pointed to the side, otherwise the box will fall over. I don't personally understand why they recommend such a small stand for the SM8. For Vertical I set the up the way that you describe. However, my intention was not to fire them vertical. I spent, what seems like a long time on the phone with their head office and I can tell you it was like talking to a tree in winter:) The logo is on the short and not on the long. John "In the land of the blind auto-tune is King" I think it's important in general to get objects away from lower frequency emitters, those freq's are omnidirectional, and anything like a stand, console, desk top will cause a really quick muddying reflection. The other thing you might try for giggles is to put a pair of the heaviest objects you can find that don't breach the perimeter of the monitor face(sand bags full of lead shot lol), on top of the monitor to stabilize it from movement, you'll be amazed at how the lows solidify. |
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outuvphaze
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Riders on the storm... Riders on the storm...
Posts: 33
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Post by outuvphaze on Jul 27, 2014 12:19:41 GMT -6
Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding, an isolation mount for a monitor should decouple it from the furniture it's resting on without causing instability, or reflecting sound waves, both of these cause distortion, it looks by the pictures that the PA perpatrates both offenses(foam/extends beyond the enclosure?)as well as the ISO being unstable, I'd also add that from my understanding, horizontal firing of monitors isn't a good idea, it skews the imaging, don't some designers place tweets to time align frequency arrival? I personally mix freqs hi to low/ top to bottom. I used to fire horizontally, but not for the last 15 years now. Another point worth mentioning regarding Horizontal firing is that the top (superior surface) of the SM8 has a reflex membrane/port. My ceiling in this room is 14 feet high, controlled with clouds, the walls are 10 feet across. I would rather fire that port towards the wall than the ceiling. In a different room I might fire them differently. yet, in this room I go for Horizontal. I've tried both with that particular enclosure many times and in the end in "this" room Horizontal is what works with that box. The room is 12x10x14. It's an odd shape but it's what I've got. |
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outuvphaze
Full Member
Riders on the storm... Riders on the storm...
Posts: 33
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Post by outuvphaze on Jul 27, 2014 12:23:02 GMT -6
Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding, an isolation mount for a monitor should decouple it from the furniture it's resting on without causing instability, or reflecting sound waves, both of these cause distortion, it looks by the pictures that the PA perpatrates both offenses(foam/extends beyond the enclosure?)as well as the ISO being unstable, I'd also add that from my understanding, horizontal firing of monitors isn't a good idea, it skews the imaging, don't some designers place tweets to time align frequency arrival? I personally mix freqs hi to low/ top to bottom. I used to fire horizontally, but not for the last 15 years now. Another point worth mentioning regarding Horizontal firing is that the top (superior surface) of the SM8 has a reflex membrane/port. My ceiling in this room is 14 feet high, controlled with clouds, the walls are 10 feet across. I would rather fire that port towards the wall than the ceiling. In a different room I might fire them differently. yet, in this room I go for Horizontal. I've tried both with that particular enclosure many times and in the end in "this" room Horizontal is what works with that box. The room is 12x10x14. It's an odd shape but it's what I've got. Lead shot.... I'm in Canada. We don't generally shoot guns and I wouldn't even know where to go for Lead shot lol!!! I've used sand bags before, they work. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 27, 2014 12:27:57 GMT -6
Unless I'm grossly misunderstanding, an isolation mount for a monitor should decouple it from the furniture it's resting on without causing instability, or reflecting sound waves, both of these cause distortion, it looks by the pictures that the PA perpatrates both offenses(foam/extends beyond the enclosure?)as well as the ISO being unstable, I'd also add that from my understanding, horizontal firing of monitors isn't a good idea, it skews the imaging, don't some designers place tweets to time align frequency arrival? I personally mix freqs hi to low/ top to bottom. I used to fire horizontally, but not for the last 15 years now. Another point worth mentioning regarding Horizontal firing is that the top (superior surface) of the SM8 has a reflex membrane/port. My ceiling in this room is 14 feet high, controlled with clouds, the walls are 10 feet across. I would rather fire that port towards the wall than the ceiling. In a different room I might fire them differently. yet, in this room I go for Horizontal. I've tried both with that particular enclosure many times and in the end in "this" room Horizontal is what works with that box. The room is 12x10x14. It's an odd shape but it's what I've got. all the things your saying make good sense, i prefer the image thats created with the vertical firing, the hi's being above the lows with the drivers placement, it fits the paradigm i've created in my little mind about source placement and instrumentation, when i picture a drum kit, the cymbals are always highest set, the bass drum lowest, i picture bass guitar mid waist, with a 15" woof on the floor of the room/stage, i picture horns at higher face level, i picture guitars at mid waist level, it just makes sense to my tiny little brain lol |
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,011
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Post by ericn on Jul 27, 2014 12:29:14 GMT -6
I vote neither, I find generic solutions seldom do the job well. I prefer mass over the Idea of decoupling to be superior in most cases.
A pair of stands filled with sand like SoundAnchors or even simple DIY PVC columns filled have proven them selves time and time again.
Foam and elastomer suspensions always seam to have a very limited range of effectiveness.
Most of these manufactures are basing there compandibility on a spec sheet and have used there product with a very small sample of the most popular cost effective speakers, so there is a very reall chance your the Guiana pig!
I have Recomended the Prime Acustics product as an angled platform, not an isolation device.
Tony as far as monitors side mounted, it depends .
yes some are time aligned most are not, if it works it works.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 27, 2014 12:33:04 GMT -6
I vote neither, I find generic solutions seldom do the job well. I prefer mass over the Idea of decoupling to be superior in most cases.
A pair of stands filled with sand like SoundAnchors or even simple DIY PVC columns filled have proven them selves time and time again. Foam and elastomer suspensions always seam to have a very limited range of effectiveness. Most of these manufactures are basing there compandibility on a spec sheet and have used there product with a very small sample of the most popular cost effective speakers, so there is a very reall chance your the Guiana pig! I have Recomended the Prime Acustics product as an angled platform, not an isolation device. Tony as far as monitors side mounted, it depends . yes some are time aligned most are not, if it works it works. yes sir Eric! the proAc knocks i was telling you about on another thread, are made with 1 1/8" mdf! they weigh a firggin ton. I still haven't decided how i'm going to set them upon my new console/desk/rack on wheels? |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 27, 2014 12:35:00 GMT -6
btw outuvphaze welcome to the forum, great first post! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 27, 2014 12:56:53 GMT -6
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,011
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Post by ericn on Jul 27, 2014 14:24:43 GMT -6
Yes indeed welcome Outphaze!
Tony with your welding skills just friggin build a Pair of Fixed stands!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 27, 2014 17:43:04 GMT -6
I vote neither, I find generic solutions seldom do the job well. I prefer mass over the Idea of decoupling to be superior in most cases. A pair of stands filled with sand like SoundAnchors or even simple DIY PVC columns filled have proven them selves time and time again. Foam and elastomer suspensions always seam to have a very limited range of effectiveness. Most of these manufactures are basing there compandibility on a spec sheet and have used there product with a very small sample of the most popular cost effective speakers, so there is a very reall chance your the Guiana pig! I have Recomended the Prime Acustics product as an angled platform, not an isolation device. Tony as far as monitors side mounted, it depends . yes some are time aligned most are not, if it works it works. My PMC's are designed to be horizontal. I've been much happier with them than I could have imagined. |
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outuvphaze
Full Member
Riders on the storm... Riders on the storm...
Posts: 33
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Post by outuvphaze on Jul 27, 2014 18:16:11 GMT -6
Just back from the gold course. Happy to be here. Lots of good thoughts coming forth from everyone.
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Post by gouge on Jul 27, 2014 18:42:15 GMT -6
sorbethane is a fairly simple and cost effective isolator. you can buy it in sheets, strips or hemisphere pads. the hemisphere pads are specifically for speakers.
maybe an alternative.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 30, 2014 20:47:33 GMT -6
I just took mine down...I think they just make my monitors sit too high. I'm hearing the midrange better without them...could totally be a height thing...
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Post by Warhead on Jul 30, 2014 22:13:00 GMT -6
That IsoAcoustics stand model seems WOEFULLY undersized, if anything you could be using two of them (which they suggest two under each monitor on some speakers). The SM9 for example they are suggesting 2 under each speaker of either the 155 or 200 model, or that you can use a single 430 model (big one). Here is the chart: www.isoacoustics.com/files/chart_imperial.pdfTell me, what model # is that pictured? The day we received the IsoAcoustics line at ZenPro I deleted all of the foam based monitor pads. The set we had under our Dynaudio BM15A at the time was sagging after about a year, towards the rear (amplifier side being heavier) so it was like the leaning tower of Pisa. War |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 31, 2014 8:17:31 GMT -6
They seemed fine for my Pro Acs - but my desk already has a second level where the monitors sit - and it's already pretty high...adding another 5 inches is just too much. I'm gonna try again, though. I switched back and forth last night and heard more midrange issues when they were out of the equation...
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Post by wiz on Feb 10, 2016 18:12:36 GMT -6
They seemed fine for my Pro Acs - but my desk already has a second level where the monitors sit - and it's already pretty high...adding another 5 inches is just too much. I'm gonna try again, though. I switched back and forth last night and heard more midrange issues when they were out of the equation... blast from the past... what did you end up doing? cheers Wiz |
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