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Post by ninworks on Apr 7, 2024 4:02:07 GMT -6
I've had my HR824's since about 2006. They have served me well in my home studio. I am very familiar with them and how they translate. Lately I have been wondering if replacing them with modern tech would be advantageous. I don't want to spend a ton of money. I'd like to keep it well under $2k. Would I be smart to replace them. I know many people hate the HR's but would something like Adam A7's be a step up or just a lateral swap?
I'd love to be able to spend $4k on a set of monitors but it's not in my budget.
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Post by mcirish on Apr 7, 2024 6:34:53 GMT -6
If your mixes are translating well, it's hard to want to change. If you want something a bit more detailed and three way, I'd suggest the Dynaudio LYD48. You should be able to find them used under 2k. They are not much above that new. They don't go super loud but I've never had a problem with them being too quiet.
I'm sure a lot of people will have their own opinions. I'm not crazy about the ribbon tweeter in Adams. But everyone likes something different.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 7, 2024 6:37:13 GMT -6
One major thing to consider is that you are used to a closed cabinet passive radiator sound: tighter bass, a little less extension. Top of mind only cla10 active or passive or old ns10, fit your budget and are sealed, (but no passive radiator) klassik 20’s fit your budget and are pretty close to sealed. If you demo ported models, front or back port react differently with your room or have different placement issues: back port reflections, so just listen carefully as you demo. If you have a good amp, maybe demo Amphion one 15 or 18 ? If you can demo, consider the new Barefoot o3, new three way design, active and a proper mid driver$1995, if you can find them !  |
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 7, 2024 6:39:13 GMT -6
Mark Kano here was selling some 2-3 year old lyd48’s, within your budget.
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Post by ninworks on Apr 7, 2024 8:26:44 GMT -6
I started out with original NS10's and had then for a couple years before deciding I really didn't like them as my sole monitor source. I went to passive Tannoy PBM8's after that and liked them better. I heard some HR824's in a friend's studio and liked them much more than the Tannoys so I got a pair and sold the Tannoys. I don't mind the Mackie's but at my age my hearing isn't what it used to be and maybe something more detailed would be a better option. Too many years standing in front of a Marshall stack for hours at a time 4 to 6 nights a week and having vocal wedges blowing in my face louder than the Marshall. I was young and indestructible. Ear plugs were out of the question. Huh??
I'll check into the LYD48s.
What the heck is up with all of the single monitors for sale on Reverb??? Is that for ATMOS systems? Seems kind of dumb to sell just a right or left speaker.
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Post by Dan on Apr 7, 2024 9:43:49 GMT -6
Atc scm 11/12 if you have a powerful amp.
Focal Shapes or ST6 if you don’t.
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Post by notneeson on Apr 7, 2024 11:31:45 GMT -6
I like the HR 824s, I’ve gotten good translation in them but it’s been a minute.
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 7, 2024 12:10:27 GMT -6
I've had my HR824's since about 2006. They have served me well in my home studio. I am very familiar with them and how they translate. Lately I have been wondering if replacing them with modern tech would be advantageous. I don't want to spend a ton of money. I'd like to keep it well under $2k. Would I be smart to replace them. I know many people hate the HR's but would something like Adam A7's be a step up or just a lateral swap? I'd love to be able to spend $4k on a set of monitors but it's not in my budget. 22 years ago they where my first "proper" studio monitors. There wasn't much else around that price. If you played Phil Collins "Easy Lover" with the them turned up LOUD .... the sonic experience was flippin' fantastic - a visceral air moving experience! Of course looking back now I realise it's because the bass end had been somewhat "enhanced" but still I thought they were a whole heap of fun to make music on. I sold them and a pair of mint condition Yamaha NS10's to buy my next pair of monitors. I kinda wish I'd kept them for watching films - as they do sound very BIG! If you know them well and your mixes translate - then just keep rocking on with them. |
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Post by the other mark williams on Apr 7, 2024 12:41:20 GMT -6
I agree that there are better options than the HR824s, but not many below $2000/pair that are going to be a clear upgrade. I say if your mixes really are translating well and you aren't having any glaring mix issues that your ME keeps having to fix, then you're all good IMO. If you're really wanting to spend that fixed amount (or less) on a pair of monitors, you might be better served by a second, smaller set that gives you a different perspective to compare with. Something affordable like the Kalis or even the Sceptre 6s would give a different perspective on your mix.
But again, if you're getting good results already, then you're probably OK.
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Post by FM77 on Apr 7, 2024 15:01:56 GMT -6
I was working as a writer for an R&B artist in 2007 and was using the Mackie HR824s along with Dynaudio BM6a. It was a love - hate no doubt. They are simultaneously well balanced but plasticy. They feel 'unnatural' to me (personally) but I forced myself to use them until the gig was up. Seemed like their direct competition at the time were Events. I bought JBL LSR 6328P to replace them. If you can find a pair used, they are worth the money!
I agree with Dan. The Focal Shapes (truly an overlooked gem), The Shape Twins are absolutely fantastic and in my personal experience a genuine improvement. I really regret selling the Focal Shape twins over time. I bought the Focal Be Trios to use with my ATCs and while they are clearer, more detailed, the Shapes were effortless to work with. Its possible I go back to the Shapes as a 2nd pair.
At the very least you be adding a genuinely different, high quality speaker for contrast.
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Post by thehightenor on Apr 8, 2024 0:27:04 GMT -6
I was working as a writer for an R&B artist in 2007 and was using the Mackie HR824s along with Dynaudio BM6a. It was a love - hate no doubt. They are simultaneously well balanced but plasticy. They feel 'unnatural' to me (personally) but I forced myself to use them until the gig was up. Seemed like their direct competition at the time were Events. I bought JBL LSR 6328P to replace them. If you can find a pair used, they are worth the money!
I agree with Dan. The Focal Shapes (truly an overlooked gem), The Shape Twins are absolutely fantastic and in my personal experience a genuine improvement. I really regret selling the Focal Shape twins over time. I bought the Focal Be Trios to use with my ATCs and while they are clearer, more detailed, the Shapes were effortless to work with. Its possible I go back to the Shapes as a 2nd pair.
At the very least you be adding a genuinely different, high quality speaker for contrast.
I’ve never been able to get on with the beryllium tweeter on the Focal range. Do you not find them too bright? Especially as you’re a follow ATC 25 user and those ATC tweeters are very smooth and silk not metal - perhaps I don’t like metal tweeters. |
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Post by FM77 on Apr 8, 2024 5:45:45 GMT -6
I’ve never been able to get on with the beryllium tweeter on the Focal range. Do you not find them too bright? Especially as you’re a follow ATC 25 user and those ATC tweeters are very smooth and silk not metal - perhaps I don’t like metal tweeters. I have heard that from some people. I myself find it very detailed and seamless when switching A/B. In my experience it is room dependent and program material dependent.
I work on non-hyped roots, vintage fusion, contemporary AOR, soul etc. Alot of hardware, tape, and vintage gear in my small room. As a low-level listener for decades avoiding fatigue, I find the contrast very nice though nearly unnoticeable in the high end unless cranked. The low end extension is better with the Focals. The crossover for the Trios is 4.5khz and 3.5Khz for the ATCs. The 25s are clearly known for their mid-driver / tweeter relationship which provides that silky nearly transparent line between the two. But I think it is more about the mid-driver implementation. That said, I can hear a difference between MK1 and the ATC MKII tweeter. Pleasant, but it’s there. Might be because of the hours on the MKI as well. The Focal Shape Twins remind of a combination of the two. It may be the dual passive radiators, flax cone etc. They just worked in this small room. |
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Post by drumsound on Apr 8, 2024 14:41:13 GMT -6
I worked on HR824s for a long time and they are kind of exciting for clients. BUT the more I learned, the more I realized there were things I didn't like, especially the GIANT hole in the middle with I believe to be due to the crossover. I actually went to speakers that didn't play as low, but made more fullrange sense. After those, I went to 3-way monitors and I wish I had when I replaced the Mackies.
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nas
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Post by nas on Apr 8, 2024 16:01:39 GMT -6
I had the HR824's for a while and I loved them. When they first they came out they were quite the rage and Mackie was considered a very good bang for the buck and really did raise the bar for home and project studio recording. At some point, however, as the powered monitor scene started to evolve I decided to go for another alternative and can honestly say that as a result, my mixes did indeed translate better and I started to hear into mixes more... and enjoy listening that much more. So as technology evolves sometimes it can provide you with a quantitive and qualitative improvement - not always - sometimes we can get caught up in the hype... but it's worth exploring new alternatives if and when they become available.
That being said, I know great engineers who still rely on NS10's because they simply work and allow them to consonantly put out great mixes. Only you can really determine if making a change is worth it to you... even if your mixes sound pretty good now, maybe shaking things up a bit might be a good idea. I would suggest - if possible - renting or trying out other options and hear for yourself... is this an improvement? It will help you to make a more informed decision.
FWIW when I was checking out new monitors, I hated the Adam's although many had recommended them. So it's really a personal thing.
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Post by brenta on Apr 8, 2024 17:59:53 GMT -6
I’m a big proponent of using multiple sets of monitors. Instead of replacing, why not add another pair to work with that you can switch back and forth from? At the very least, it will make it easier and faster to learn your new monitors if you still have the 824’s to reference.
I had a pair of 824s back in the day and a couple of studios I worked out of had some. My experience is similar to everyone else’s on this thread. Seemed to be a gap in the midrange. The low end extension is impressive at first but I found it to be untrustworthy. Kinda the opposite of tight bass. I added a pair of NS10’s at one point and those two sets of monitors complimented each other very nicely. If I could get something to sound good on both it would translate.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,957
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Post by ericn on Apr 8, 2024 19:18:37 GMT -6
I was working as a writer for an R&B artist in 2007 and was using the Mackie HR824s along with Dynaudio BM6a. It was a love - hate no doubt. They are simultaneously well balanced but plasticy. They feel 'unnatural' to me (personally) but I forced myself to use them until the gig was up. Seemed like their direct competition at the time were Events. I bought JBL LSR 6328P to replace them. If you can find a pair used, they are worth the money!
I agree with Dan. The Focal Shapes (truly an overlooked gem), The Shape Twins are absolutely fantastic and in my personal experience a genuine improvement. I really regret selling the Focal Shape twins over time. I bought the Focal Be Trios to use with my ATCs and while they are clearer, more detailed, the Shapes were effortless to work with. Its possible I go back to the Shapes as a 2nd pair.
At the very least you be adding a genuinely different, high quality speaker for contrast.
I’ve never been able to get on with the beryllium tweeter on the Focal range. Do you not find them too bright? Especially as you’re a follow ATC 25 user and those ATC tweeters are very smooth and silk not metal - perhaps I don’t like metal tweeters. I have a similar problem, but I don’t believe it’s the Be tweeter, quite simply Focal doesn’t use any drivers in the pro range that keep up with it. The Aluminum does a better job of meshing with the other drivers, but once you hear that Be it’s hard to go back. It’s not a Be issue, one of my favorite but now it seams is unubtainable, the Transducer design labs Be meshes quite well with the Volt mids and probably the ATC, the TDL carbon has a little less zing but also less sparkle. |
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Post by Dan on Apr 9, 2024 6:54:38 GMT -6
I worked on HR824s for a long time and they are kind of exciting for clients. BUT the more I learned, the more I realized there were things I didn't like, especially the GIANT hole in the middle with I believe to be due to the crossover. I actually went to speakers that didn't play as low, but made more fullrange sense. After those, I went to 3-way monitors and I wish I had when I replaced the Mackies. The old ones are scooped. There’s no detail in the midrange either. You cannot hear issues near the crossover at all that are key to translation because levels are often just a different mix but problems are problems. So you need to use headphones or another pair of speakers like NS10s or fostex 6301 back when the Mackies came out or Auratone 5C now too and the small speaker is your midrange problem and balancing speaker and big one is just set the vocal and guitars to be audible and do kick, bass, and snare level. The new China made 824s are horrifically bad monitors. I don’t even bother with the big useless nice sounding speakers now. When I did, I was using the older Fostex 6301 for all the real decisions. Then the nasty resonant JBL 305s which are a much better monitor in the real world than any Mackie despite their gross issues. |
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Post by Dan on Apr 9, 2024 7:10:32 GMT -6
I’ve never been able to get on with the beryllium tweeter on the Focal range. Do you not find them too bright? Especially as you’re a follow ATC 25 user and those ATC tweeters are very smooth and silk not metal - perhaps I don’t like metal tweeters. I have a similar problem, but I don’t believe it’s the Be tweeter, quite simply Focal doesn’t use any drivers in the pro range that keep up with it. The Aluminum does a better job of meshing with the other drivers, but once you hear that Be it’s hard to go back. It’s not a Be issue, one of my favorite but now it seams is unubtainable, the Transducer design labs Be meshes quite well with the Volt mids and probably the ATC, the TDL carbon has a little less zing but also less sparkle. The beryllium tweeter has a few resonances but it’s higher detail than most soft domes. Focal’s woofers are warm. SCM20ASL is next level tightness but there’s just no bass and it costs double the Focals, weighs twice as much, and ATC’s distribution is not as good but their repair service is tops along with Genelec. The non SL ATC speakers are great speakers but they just don’t have the crazy level of detail. The SCM 11 and SCM 12 are awesome for the price and should honestly replace most of the cheaper prosumer powered monitor crap but how do you sell accuracy and detail to someone listening to the Adam ax7 or some Neumann two way monitor that’s been dsped into being flat but has no headroom, crossover power response dips, and high distortion in normal use? How do you sell them them the SCM20ASL or the ST6 that will do most recordings no favors? Tons of commercial mixes sound like crap on them because they didn’t fix basic midrange issues or the limiter is pumping and crapping up the sound or they didn’t address the mud regions? And your typical ho hum three way with a a heavy, overdamped mid dome is going to minimize the midrange issues that will be glaringly obvious on an Atc, small monkey coffin two ways with no dip on axis or maybe even a resonant crossover, and horns. |
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