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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 28, 2024 16:16:41 GMT -6
I recorded a song on my iphone in a big room with lots of echo. I began to create a Logic project and used the little Tap Tempo app on my iPhone. I thought I had it right, but there's a slight difference between the iPhone track and the Logic project.
How can I accurately find the tempo of the iPhone track?
https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/thank-you-for-everything-w-piano-iphone
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Post by wiz on Mar 28, 2024 17:37:18 GMT -6
I recorded a song on my iphone in a big room with lots of echo. I began to create a Logic project and used the little Tap Tempo app on my iPhone. I thought I had it right, but there's a slight difference between the iPhone track and the Logic project. How can I accurately find the tempo of the iPhone track? https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/thank-you-for-everything-w-piano-iphoneIn logic you could use smart tempo |
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 28, 2024 17:38:23 GMT -6
I recorded a song on my iphone in a big room with lots of echo. I began to create a Logic project and used the little Tap Tempo app on my iPhone. I thought I had it right, but there's a slight difference between the iPhone track and the Logic project. How can I accurately find the tempo of the iPhone track? https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/thank-you-for-everything-w-piano-iphoneThere are a couple different ways to do this in Logic, Martin, but I usually start with importing the recording in question, then putting the Logic "BPM Counter" plugin on the track that contains the imported audio. Then play the track and watch the counter figure it out. That gets me there the majority of the time. EDIT: Wiz just told you the other way. His way is more automatic and creates the tempo map for you. |
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Post by christopher on Mar 28, 2024 17:46:07 GMT -6
If it was free time then you’d need a tempo map.
Reaper its pretty fast and easy to do, just annoying to learn how. It’s been a feature for at least 12 years so I imagine all DAW’s do it. (They nailed it while I was typing)
If you want to start a new project with “close nuff” I calculated 75.47bpm.. then you can try to adjust the BPM and fraction up or down depending on if you are slower or faster. If you played to a metronome there should be an exact fraction that gets you close.
Finally you can always splice up the wav and nudge little areas if say every 30 seconds you are losing time..
I’d hope there’s an automatic way that’s easier than all this (guess there is!)
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 28, 2024 17:53:38 GMT -6
When you import the track in logic, right click on the wav file and you will de able to make the project tempo conform to it, the other way around or delete the file tempo.
Remember too, logic has flex time.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 28, 2024 20:07:05 GMT -6
Thanks so much guys.
Before, I simply tried tapping along to the iPhone recording to get the BPM. Next time I'll pop it into Logic first.
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Post by paulnajar on Apr 11, 2024 4:12:18 GMT -6
Whether the original performance was recorded to a click or not, most of the Logic tools mentioned so far will never be that accurate to describe the tempo variations in the audio. You need to develop a variable tempo map and the very best way to do that is Logic’s Beat Mapping. Even if it was performed to a click there will still be tempo variations in the performace. You have a choice to bend Logic’s grid to let the recorded performace be the master arbiter of tempo via beat mapping or stick with a strict single tempo and bend (or straighten out) the original performance tempo variations to match that single tempo via Logic’s Flex.
I reckon it’s an aesthetic decision which way you go in the end.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 11, 2024 5:09:26 GMT -6
Logic will track it accurately to the beat
and it’s inherent variation:62,64,65 whatever?
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Post by Ward on Apr 11, 2024 6:24:08 GMT -6
But can you correct the tempo to one solid tempo, should you so desire and require?
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 11, 2024 8:16:51 GMT -6
I think that is what Paul is getting at, using flex time, and you can even manually move transients if you want
Or when you right click you can also have track align with session time.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 11, 2024 8:21:16 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 11, 2024 12:02:40 GMT -6
I wasn't using the iphone track, I only needed to know the correct tempo for creating a new project. I just happened to find the original iPhone tempo felt better than the tempo my "tap tempo" feature on my iPhone gave me.
These methods are quite enough, thanks guys.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 11, 2024 12:29:27 GMT -6
I dragged the iPhone recording into a new project. The tempo did fluctuate, but 74 BPM was the general tempo. I then checked the new project that has piano, and the tempo I had chosen was 72 BPM.
I figure I can either record at 72 and change it to 74 after tracking, or just leave it at 74 and record to that tempo going forward. I guess I'll have to see how much difference the tempo means to the tuning of other instruments like bass and if it's too far off pitch, record at 72, bump to 74 after it's all done.
74 BPM does feel a little better.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 11, 2024 13:35:21 GMT -6
Logic can varispeed all tracks after the fact , as well.
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Post by paulnajar on Apr 15, 2024 4:37:15 GMT -6
I dragged the iPhone recording into a new project. The tempo did fluctuate, but 74 BPM was the general tempo. I then checked the new project that has piano, and the tempo I had chosen was 72 BPM. I figure I can either record at 72 and change it to 74 after tracking, or just leave it at 74 and record to that tempo going forward. I guess I'll have to see how much difference the tempo means to the tuning of other instruments like bass and if it's too far off pitch, record at 72, bump to 74 after it's all done. 74 BPM does feel a little better. Ah ok I see. So the idea of knowingly deciding to have to change the tempo after audio recording to get to a tempo that you know you like better is cart before horse to me as aside from anything else the audio quality will be degraded a little by making that change. Go at 74bpm unless you have a very good reason not to would be my $0.02 cents worth. FYI Flex can work well for micro tuning audio independent of tempo or changing tempo independent of pitch. This is its main way of working. The previously mentioned varispeed function is designed to behave like analog tape where to speed up tempo raises pitch. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 15, 2024 5:47:23 GMT -6
Here’s another good how to tutorial:
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 15, 2024 13:25:38 GMT -6
Thanks Kcat. I'll have to watch the entire video later today, but so far it seems he's referring to samples. I'm referring to multiple piano tracks and one vocal.
Paulnajar, I've been using Logic since 2012. This is the first time I've wanted to change tempo on a track already recorded. I like the performances I have so far, enough to try this adjustment.
At this point my main question is do I use the computer power to keep the pitch but bump up to 74 BPM from 72, or should I even bother and just record from now on at 74.
I'm not sure if one method is better can the other. I guess I would make the pitch adjustment if I was going to use any virtual instruments, or I could just record at the original 72 BPM and then speed up to 74 after tracking. The pitch change is of course minor because it's a small change that doesn't affect pitch very much.
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Post by paulnajar on Apr 15, 2024 16:25:09 GMT -6
Hi Martin,
I just need to clarify some things to make sure I fully understand.
You have some piano and voice recordings you wish to work with to add new tracks.
Those original recordings were made with or without a click.
Either way seems you’ve said the average tempo for them is 72bpm.
You have decided you like the performances better at 74bpm.
These points are my understanding.
If you want to end up at 74bpm the best time to change the existing 72 bpm tracks is before you do any overdubs. Once you’ve made those tracks 74bpm you can proceed to finish without any further worries.
Start with a new logic session and set its tempo to 72bpm.
Import existing tracks and get them on the grid sitting mostly with Logic’s click.If they won’t sit it’s because there is too much tempo variation in the performances or because they actually were not played at 72bpm. If you care that these existing tracks sit on the grid then you will either need to find the correct fixed tempo or if there’s too much tempo variation in the performances for one tempo then you would need to create a tempo map using beat mapping OR use Flex to quantise the audio tracks so they do conform to one single tempo.
If there are multiple piano mics you need to put them into a phase locked group before doing anything. This is done by putting the piano tracks into a normal group and selecting the “Editing Selection and Phase Locked” settings in the inspector.
Turn on Flex view in the menu bar.
Select “Polyphonic” in one of the piano tracks. All tracks should now read polyphonic. You’ll get a progress bar while logic analyses the tracks.
Go through the same process for all vocal tracks except don’t put them into a group.
If you’ve made it this far and everything is still on the grid at 72bpm you can now change Logic’s tempo to 74bpm.
If you’ve done it all correctly everything should still be in time with itself and with the faster click. If you wish to audition other tempos now is the time. Your tracks will just follow along faster or slower. There will be NO change to the pitch of anything.
Once you’re all happy use the bounce in place function to print each track (offline). Mute and hide the original tracks. You can leave Flex on for them.
If you complete all of these steps there will be zero CPU hit beyond simply playing back a bunch of tracks. It’s at this point I would feel ready to start overdubbing.
Hope that helps
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Post by paulnajar on Apr 15, 2024 16:50:33 GMT -6
One final thought. If the piano and vocals were performed together in the same space and there is a little bleed between mics then ALL the audio tracks you're going to change tempo on need to be in the same phase locked group. If vocals were overdubbed and there is no bleed then stick with my previous instructions.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Apr 16, 2024 13:02:20 GMT -6
Thanks for your comprehensive advice Paul, it's much appreciated. The good news is I did an iPhone recording, just to remember all the new lyrics, etc.
Then when I started a Logic session, I played those parts again, not using any of the iPhone tracks. I used 72 BPM and the vocal and piano parts were done at 72 BPM.
So all I need to know for now is should I continue recording a few new tracks at 72 and bump to 74 BPM after, or should I go to 74 now and record the new tracks at that tempo.
I was mainly concerned that tuning to match the piano and vocal might need adjusting a little if I record at 74, but if I stayed at 72, no issues, and when mixing, I could bump to 74 BPM.
The only issue is I wonder if the performance would be better if I recorded any new tracks at 74. Subtle as it may seem, the 74 BPM feel is better.
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Post by paulnajar on Apr 16, 2024 15:15:00 GMT -6
Hi Martin and thnaks for the additional info but it seems we still have a few disconnects in comprehension.
Great so you recoded piano & voice tracks into Logic @ 72bpm. Separately or together?
As I’ve said before in answer to your question about WHEN to change the audio to your preferred tempo, the answer is now. - before you add any further recordings to the project. Change the tempo of the existing audio tracks up to 74 and if you’re not sure of the best workflow for this use my instructions 2 posts up.
You keep asking about the change in pitch when speeding up the audio.Twice now I’ve said it and this will be the third time. Done correctly the sped up tracks will NOT change in pitch at all. Unless you’re referring to something I don’t get like was the piano recorded at concert pitch? If it was it will stay at concert pitch when sped up. Same with vocals. If the piano was not at concert pitch when recorded then the tuning challenges you will face at the faster tempo will be the same challenges you face at the existing tempo.
To sum up I would definitely want additional performances to be performed at the faster final desired tempo. I agree with you it will affect the way people play and sing.
Kind regards
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