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Post by Shadowk on Mar 14, 2024 11:18:33 GMT -6
This will be quick, they sound near enough like my Core 59's. The Geithain's are easier on the ear and slightly less confusing, they care far less about setup or placement and of course they go lower, apart from that though we are really splitting hairs.
I very much like them, it's more of a logistical issue with these than anything else. Somehow the 934's are even larger than the Dyn's and as my desk takes up a lot of space I can't put them on stands. Maybe in my next house..
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Post by lowlou on Mar 14, 2024 11:55:29 GMT -6
If I had to buy a pair of monitors tomorrow it would be ME Geithain monitors.
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Post by drumsound on Mar 15, 2024 12:30:57 GMT -6
"easier on the ear and less confusing" to me sounds like a switch worth making. But maybe I'm putting too much on that statement.
I had Dyns here twice and found them quite fatiguing. They weren't Core models, they were BM15 (I think that's the number)
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 15, 2024 13:12:06 GMT -6
"easier on the ear and less confusing" to me sounds like a switch worth making. But maybe I'm putting too much on that statement. I had Dyns here twice and found them quite fatiguing. They weren't Core models, they were BM15 (I think that's the number) Short of the Esotar, Dynaudio dom s can be Fatigue inducing but the combination of Esotar tweeter and Esotar mid,while not quite a ATC or Volt mid with the right crossover and amp is seductive as hell. While I don’t think they are the last word in domes they are probably better matched than any other pair. Why when powered by one of the little Soundstream Class A auto sound amps they sound awesome in a 2000 Mercedes S class. |
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 15, 2024 13:21:27 GMT -6
"easier on the ear and less confusing" to me sounds like a switch worth making. But maybe I'm putting too much on that statement. I had Dyns here twice and found them quite fatiguing. They weren't Core models, they were BM15 (I think that's the number) I can't disagree, as monitors the Geithain's are for me flawless. You can play them pretty loud to get the full bass experience whilst still retaining your hearing after a full day without any lack of detail. It's just a price & logistics thing, they're too big to be placed on a monitor shelf and they cost $14.6K according to the loan reciept which could be worth it but it's still a lot of money. Then again I would certainly never look at another pair again.
The other options are the RL940's, half the size, half the price, 38Hz bass which isn't bad although it's front ported not Coaxial like the bigger 934K's. Not sure how much that matters.
A pair of RL906's with two subs. (5" 2-way coaxial Geithain's)
Finally just a pair for RL906's as a B pair and keep the Dyn's.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 15, 2024 13:39:15 GMT -6
"easier on the ear and less confusing" to me sounds like a switch worth making. But maybe I'm putting too much on that statement. I had Dyns here twice and found them quite fatiguing. They weren't Core models, they were BM15 (I think that's the number) I can't disagree, as monitors the Geithain's are for me flawless. You can play them pretty loud to get the full bass experience whilst still retaining your hearing after a full day without any lack of detail. It's just a price & logistics thing, they're too big to be placed on a monitor shelf and they cost $14.6K according to the loan reciept which could be worth it but it's still a lot of money. Then again I would certainly never look at another pair again.
The other options are the RL940's, half the size, half the price, 38Hz bass which isn't bad although it's front ported not Coaxial like the bigger 934K's. Not sure how much that matters.
A pair of RL906's with two subs. (5" 2-way coaxial Geithain's)
Finally just a pair for RL906's as a B pair and keep the Dyn's.
Danny I think you are entering that place where you have to start looking at this not as what can $20K get me, but what are my practical priorities? |
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 15, 2024 15:07:12 GMT -6
Danny I think you are entering that place where you have to start looking at this not as what can $20K get me, but what are my practical priorities?
Firstly you can rotate the baffle like the Dyn's, nice. Also to keep down the size, weight etc. of the unit the amps are actually disconnected. Yes, I know it's just like a normal set of passives with an amp but if you want Geithain it does circumvent a few practical issues when it comes to their larger monitors.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 15, 2024 15:19:18 GMT -6
Danny I think you are entering that place where you have to start looking at this not as what can $20K get me, but what are my practical priorities?
Firstly you can rotate the baffle like the Dyn's, nice. Also to keep down the size, weight etc. of the unit the amps are actually disconnected. Yes, I know it's just like a normal set of passives with an amp but if you want Geithain it does circumvent a few practical issues when it comes to their larger monitors.
I have one problem with the way Gieithian refers to these as Co- axial ( they are not the only ones) Co axle implies they the 2 drivers share the Axis, they don’t! It’s not a make or break issue, but blocking the axis is going to give you better mid performance blocking the dust cover vs the cone. And you can fashion a phase plug behind the tweeter and solve some of the phase issues that are inherent in a coax vs dual concentric. Unfortunately I haven’t gotten to spend any real quality time with Geithians they really need a good US distributior. |
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 15, 2024 16:08:34 GMT -6
I have one problem with the way Gieithian refers to these as Co- axial ( they are not the only ones) Co axle implies they the 2 drivers share the Axis, they don’t! It’s not a make or break issue, but blocking the axis is going to give you better mid performance blocking the dust cover vs the cone. And you can fashion a phase plug behind the tweeter and solve some of the phase issues that are inherent in a coax vs dual concentric. Unfortunately I haven’t gotten to spend any real quality time with Geithians they really need a good US distributior. In terms of imaging (width / back to front) there's honestly not much in it between the Core's, Geithain's and what I remember of ATC. Presentation is a bit different I suppose but we are again splitting hairs.
What it really comes down to is bass, is an extra 8 Hz (30 vs. 38) worth $6.5K for a sort of wider scope of music? If not, the choice is pretty clear IMO..
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Post by ericn on Mar 15, 2024 16:37:00 GMT -6
I have one problem with the way Gieithian refers to these as Co- axial ( they are not the only ones) Co axle implies they the 2 drivers share the Axis, they don’t! It’s not a make or break issue, but blocking the axis is going to give you better mid performance blocking the dust cover vs the cone. And you can fashion a phase plug behind the tweeter and solve some of the phase issues that are inherent in a coax vs dual concentric. Unfortunately I haven’t gotten to spend any real quality time with Geithians they really need a good US distributior. In terms of imaging (width / back to front) there's honestly not much in it between the Core's, Geithain's and what I remember of ATC. Presentation is a bit different I suppose but we are again splitting hairs.
What it really comes down to is bass, is an extra 8 Hz (30 vs. 38) worth $6.5K for a sort of wider scope of music? If not, the choice is pretty clear IMO..
The secondary question is can my room really support that extra $6.5K 8HZ. the fun of moving old place 25Hz no problem new place don’t expect anything below 30HZ |
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 15, 2024 16:56:36 GMT -6
In terms of imaging (width / back to front) there's honestly not much in it between the Core's, Geithain's and what I remember of ATC. Presentation is a bit different I suppose but we are again splitting hairs.
What it really comes down to is bass, is an extra 8 Hz (30 vs. 38) worth $6.5K for a sort of wider scope of music? If not, the choice is pretty clear IMO..
The secondary question is can my room really support that extra $6.5K 8HZ. the fun of moving old place 25Hz no problem new place don’t expect anything below 30HZ That's a very good question and probably not, there has to be some sort of middle ground. There is the 944K which is exactly the same besides a 35hz response and from what I've heard the 3-way's are better than the 2-way reflex's in the GT line, it also costs $1K less and has a smaller footprint. It would have to be much smaller as well, think 80" TV in a utility room at the moment.
I appreciate all the advice as always, it's a full in the studio day tomorrow so I'll see how I get on. It will be interesting to see what I end up with, for now the Dyn's are fine in short bursts and headphones exist so there's nothing holding anything up.
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Post by explorer on Mar 15, 2024 16:59:51 GMT -6
You’re buying tools here. Do some work on them. Choose the monitor that makes you do the right things, makes the process easy, and lets you know when things are finished.
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 15, 2024 17:50:06 GMT -6
You’re buying tools here. Do some work on them. Choose the monitor that makes you do the right things, makes the process easy, and lets you know when things are finished. Isn't that what most people do? It's also the reason I got a demo pair so I could test them out in every scenario over the next couple of weeks. As it stands, they're the same as what I already work on without a few of the negatives, problem solved but without the journey I'm not sure what I'd chat or post about. It would literally be, these are cool, translate well, works for me, done and that would be it. |
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Post by ericn on Mar 15, 2024 20:11:44 GMT -6
You’re buying tools here. Do some work on them. Choose the monitor that makes you do the right things, makes the process easy, and lets you know when things are finished. Isn't that what most people do? It's also the reason I got a demo pair so I could test them out in every scenario over the next couple of weeks. As it stands, they're the same as what I already work on without a few of the negatives, problem solved but without the journey I'm not sure what I'd chat or post about. It would literally be, these are cool, translate well, works for me, done and that would be it. Along with the listening download a FFT or RTA for your phone or pc. Trust your ears but verify, the one thing I learned from Ronald Regan. |
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 16, 2024 9:36:50 GMT -6
I've run them through REW and ARC 3 (software), in room response is neater but when corrected frequency wise there's again not much in it. Phase correlation / time domain is incredible with these and they don't need bags of DSP options to achieve it. Again placement is mainly irrelevant within reason (you don't have to perfectly align them to an inch at an exact angle), you do need to be at tweeter level ear wise and stick to the manufacturers recommended listening distances like glue. The Dyn's are slightly less finnicky about height and listening distances, although in terms of general placement you really do need to be spot on. I remixed one of my own demo tracks and the results on Iphone's, the Dyn's, laptop speakers, car etc. were similar. There was an improvement but that could have been because it's a second attempt.
I might have them for two weeks but I'm really not sure what else I need to know at this point, a friend is coming round to listen so I'll be interested to see what they say. The RL 903BK (not 903K's) are probably the pick of the bunch for a project studio, rotating baffle, seperate amps (included in the purchase) to keep the weight down and a decent bass response at 35Hz, smaller than the 934's. I think the 934K's are better suited to larger studio's with freestanding mounts or soffit's, sorta like ATC SCM 50's / 100's etc.
I was just curious as to whether or not it's worth saving up for a pair, personally I think it is but I'm not going to hurt too much without them. So, I'll order a pair at Xmas but in the mean time I've got a couple of albums worth of material to get through, I hope this has been informative, much success to you all.
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Post by lowlou on Mar 16, 2024 11:45:49 GMT -6
The 934k1 can have their amps separated, which make them lightweight on stands. www.me-geithain.de/en/rl-934k.htmlI almost bought the 934k1, but decided to go another route because my personal situation does not allow me fine tune a room around the Geithains. High-end headphones it is for the time being. xxxxx  |
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 16, 2024 12:09:43 GMT -6
If I wasn’t a dyed in the wool ATC enthusiast- then my alternate choice would be a pair of Geithain’s. They’re built along the same traditional lines of proven acoustic engineering.
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Post by the other mark williams on Mar 16, 2024 12:30:25 GMT -6
Isn't that what most people do? It's also the reason I got a demo pair so I could test them out in every scenario over the next couple of weeks. As it stands, they're the same as what I already work on without a few of the negatives, problem solved but without the journey I'm not sure what I'd chat or post about. It would literally be, these are cool, translate well, works for me, done and that would be it. Along with the listening download a FFT or RTA for your phone or pc. Trust your ears but verify, the one thing I learned from Ronald Regan. I learned that ketchup counts as a vegetable. |
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Post by ericn on Mar 16, 2024 12:46:23 GMT -6
Along with the listening download a FFT or RTA for your phone or pc. Trust your ears but verify, the one thing I learned from Ronald Regan. I learned that ketchup counts as a vegetable. We are showing our age my friend 😎 |
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 21, 2024 18:17:16 GMT -6
It's been a while and these are soon to go back, it's odd how a couple of weeks changes the mindset or soul. The Geithain's aren't more impressive but they always remain clearer, they are simply just clear yet less harsh on the ear and after some adaption I'm always falling in favour of the Geithain's. At this point it's not a matter of "if" it's a when am I going to upgrade? However it does make me think, if I'd have never heard them would I have even cared?
I can't wait to see what the D&D 8C's offer as I can't compute how much better it could get.
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Post by Shadowk on Mar 21, 2024 19:33:25 GMT -6
A couple of last remarks or observations about the Geithain's, you really can hear the effects of compression and even with a bass boost for "fun" or client listening they never really get out of control. Dry, accurate, easy on the ear, works amazing about a foot away despite being 60lb's a piece and 1.6ft high. There's no such thing as as sweet spot cause it's all sweet. In short the perfect mixing or mastering monitor, not the most fun though like the Dyn's.. I can't say it's a bad thing though, even with a 30Hz response it's controlled and it's the mid range that kicks like ATC, I suppose you can buy a room shaking alt for $200.00 so does it matter?
Right, that's all I've got.. I'll report on the D&D's in a couple of weeks.
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Post by lowlou on Mar 22, 2024 2:12:37 GMT -6
Wow man really ? You're trying all the monitors I've been dreaming of !!
If you want to try next level headphones at some point, I can recommend the DCA E3, or the DCA Stealth.
Can't wait to hear what you have to say about the 8c !
Cheers
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Post by nomatic on Mar 22, 2024 6:41:37 GMT -6
Not to hijack here but anyone in the US who is interested in Dutch & Dutch DM me as I am a dealer and can answer any questions.
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 22, 2024 7:05:37 GMT -6
A couple of last remarks or observations about the Geithain's, you really can hear the effects of compression and even with a bass boost for "fun" or client listening they never really get out of control. Dry, accurate, easy on the ear, works amazing about a foot away despite being 60lb's a piece and 1.6ft high. There's no such thing as as sweet spot cause it's all sweet. In short the perfect mixing or mastering monitor, not the most fun though like the Dyn's.. I can't say it's a bad thing though, even with a 30Hz response it's controlled and it's the mid range that kicks like ATC, I suppose you can buy a room shaking alt for $200.00 so does it matter? Right, that's all I've got.. I'll report on the D&D's in a couple of weeks. Interested to see what you make of the D&D’s. I’ve personally never connected with DSP driven monitors - not exactly what it is but it’s a slightly “electronic” sound to the presentation of the audio I just don’t fully connect with. A purely personal subjective thing of course. |
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Post by svart on Mar 22, 2024 8:41:40 GMT -6
Along with the listening download a FFT or RTA for your phone or pc. Trust your ears but verify, the one thing I learned from Ronald Regan. I learned that ketchup counts as a vegetable. Tomatoes are actually fruit, so that make ketchup a form of jam. |
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