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Post by ab101 on Jan 3, 2024 17:48:20 GMT -6
I saw the clean tone amp sim thread and decided to start one with a Steve Hackett tone thread.
Is there an amp sim good at this?
Is anyone using a particular pedal or pedals to get this fuzz tone (ed.: or tone as described by kkatthedog below)? (I am not really a guitarist so please excuse any "inexactness" here.)
Thanks!
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 3, 2024 18:13:29 GMT -6
Did you mean fuzz, as in distortion, as I also really associate Steve’s tone with long singing sustain.
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Post by ab101 on Jan 3, 2024 18:39:37 GMT -6
Did you mean fuzz, as in distortion, as I also really associate Steve’s tone with long singing sustain. I am not an expert on guitar tones, so you may be correct about what I am thinking about. Examples are on Selling England by the Pound. About 2:13 on this youtube link (After the Ordeal): |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 3, 2024 18:58:57 GMT -6
While he plays a les Paul and can play with lots of distortion, that is sustain and he could be using other toys as well, like ebow.
That kind of sustain, would normally require an amp up pretty loud and kinda just below feeding back, so the level sustains but doesn’t build.
He is likely also manipulating the volume either on his guitar or with a volume pedal.
I don’t know of an amp simulation that does this but other guitarists may chime in, but I would tend to just use a cranked tube amp, but clean.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 3, 2024 20:41:02 GMT -6
Just listening on my phone, but that doesn’t sound like fuzz…just sounds like a humbucker into cranked amp. Then it sounds like double tracking.
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Post by ab101 on Jan 3, 2024 21:01:57 GMT -6
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Post by earlevel on Jan 4, 2024 17:10:54 GMT -6
I've seen him live a number of times, including in a small venue. He gets that tone perfectly live, really sings. Anyway, he discusses it here in some detail:
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Post by ragan on Jan 4, 2024 22:42:46 GMT -6
Did you mean fuzz, as in distortion, as I also really associate Steve’s tone with long singing sustain. I am not an expert on guitar tones, so you may be correct about what I am thinking about. Examples are on Selling England by the Pound. About 2:13 on this youtube link (After the Ordeal): This sounds like a lot like a treble booster circuit to me. Les Paul into my Plum Crazy Sqauwk can do that sound really well. |
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Post by dmo on Jan 6, 2024 22:51:59 GMT -6
He's using a fenrnadez sustainer set up - where one of the pick-ups is an electromagnet to cause sustained vibration - similar to playing with an ebow. How much that contributes to overall tone probably still dependent on the amp/regular pick-ups used - but does give essentially infinite sustain at very low volumes. Steve Vai also use the sustainer in his guitars (first installed on "Flo"). Not aware of any amp sims that would duplicate - there is a trick on the AxeFx using the synth block to allow low volume feedback but don't think it would be able to duplicate the sustainer function. I'll try to find the video for the AxeFx again and post so you can hear it.
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Post by ab101 on Jan 6, 2024 23:39:26 GMT -6
He's using a fenrnadez sustainer set up - where one of the pick-ups is an electromagnet to cause sustained vibration - similar to playing with an ebow. How much that contributes to overall tone probably still dependent on the amp/regular pick-ups used - but does give essentially infinite sustain at very low volumes. Steve Vai also use the sustainer in his guitars (first installed on "Flo"). Not aware of any amp sims that would duplicate - there is a trick on the AxeFx using the synth block to allow low volume feedback but don't think it would be able to duplicate the sustainer function. I'll try to find the video for the AxeFx again and post so you can hear it. Thank you, dmo. |
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Post by bikescene on Jan 7, 2024 8:21:11 GMT -6
The Digitech FreqOut pedal can provide artificial feedback in such a manner. The Line 6 Helix got this effect too when they hired to engineers that Samsung laid off from DOD/Digitech.
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Post by dmo on Jan 7, 2024 9:27:04 GMT -6
Here's the link to the example with the AxeFx. It may be close enough to work for you - if so the preset build in on the axe exchange forum and I can send that link as well. Since it's not physically causing extended string vibration like a sustainer it doesn't maintain the same tonal consistency IMO - hope this helps
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 7, 2024 11:31:19 GMT -6
I've seen him live a number of times, including in a small venue. He gets that tone perfectly live, really sings. Anyway, he discusses it here in some detail: Mum, I actually wanted to be a synth and keyboard player. |
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Post by ab101 on Jan 7, 2024 12:57:48 GMT -6
thehightenor - that is interesting as I was listening to Cinema Show in regard to this thread, and at times I as thinking about how there was a convergence between Hackett's guitar with his tones and Tony Bank's synths/keyboards.
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Post by earlevel on Jan 7, 2024 13:49:05 GMT -6
thehightenor - that is interesting as I was listening to Cinema Show in regard to this thread, and at times I as thinking about how there was a convergence between Hackett's guitar with his tones and Tony Bank's synths/keyboards. I'm sure there was some influence. Regarded as one of the most "prog" guitar melodies of all time, the solo in Firth of Firth—the soaring part after his intro—comes from Hackett mimicking Banks' melody (played earlier in the piece on flute by Peter Gabriel). I saw Hackett in the early '90s, in a small venue. He seemed bitter, making disparaging comments multiple times about guitarists of the day (assumedly, referring to the less melodic, more notes playing influenced by Eddie Van Halen). He focused on solo material for years, but at some point adopted more and more of the "Genesis revisited" set. When I first started seeing him in the modern era, his set was split, but became entirely Genesis, with a little different focus on each tour. He seems so happy and grateful, due to the deep appreciation from the audience. Really good to see. His band is very good, and reproduce the albums very well (much better than the original Genesis concerts, due to having "real" piano sounds on stage, etc.). A lot of old timers at those concerts, but I've also stood in line with a 17-year-old guitarist, for whom Hackett was his favorite guitarist (Ace of Wands was his favorite). Cued just before his entry at 6:16—with his insanely long sustain from the Fernandes at 6:50, opening the return to Banks' melody: |
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Post by thehightenor on Jan 8, 2024 2:08:51 GMT -6
thehightenor - that is interesting as I was listening to Cinema Show in regard to this thread, and at times I as thinking about how there was a convergence between Hackett's guitar with his tones and Tony Bank's synths/keyboards. I'm sure there was some influence. Regarded as one of the most "prog" guitar melodies of all time, the solo in Firth of Firth—the soaring part after his intro—comes from Hackett mimicking Banks' melody (played earlier in the piece on flute by Peter Gabriel). I saw Hackett in the early '90s, in a small venue. He seemed bitter, making disparaging comments multiple times about guitarists of the day (assumedly, referring to the less melodic, more notes playing influenced by Eddie Van Halen). He focused on solo material for years, but at some point adopted more and more of the "Genesis revisited" set. When I first started seeing him in the modern era, his set was split, but became entirely Genesis, with a little different focus on each tour. He seems so happy and grateful, due to the deep appreciation from the audience. Really good to see. His band is very good, and reproduce the albums very well (much better than the original Genesis concerts, due to having "real" piano sounds on stage, etc.). A lot of old timers at those concerts, but I've also stood in line with a 17-year-old guitarist, for whom Hackett was his favorite guitarist (Ace of Wands was his favorite). Cued just before his entry at 6:16—with his insanely long sustain from the Fernandes at 6:50, opening the return to Banks' melody: I’ve been a Genesis fan since their first album. For me, generally speaking the genius of the band was always Tony Banks. In banks they had a genuine “composer” a man who understood Debussy, Shostakovich, Rachmaninov etc on a deep level and could write timeless (as proven) harmony and thematic melodies. To think he wrote “One for the vine” in his 20’s …. always wowed me. Yes, the other guys mattered and PC turned them into a money making global radio friendly pop band on the 80’s. But I’ve heard PC say, without Banks there would never of been a Genesis - I have to agree with him. |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jan 8, 2024 7:35:39 GMT -6
I'd imagine one could get a similar tone using an Ibanez Tube Screamer turned way down then season with delay and verb.
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Post by ninworks on Jan 8, 2024 8:02:42 GMT -6
Steve could get that tone out of a Champ with a pedal or 2.
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Post by earlevel on Jan 9, 2024 0:59:53 GMT -6
For me, generally speaking the genius of the band was always Tony Banks. In banks they had a genuine “composer” a man who understood Debussy, Shostakovich, Rachmaninov etc on a deep level and could write timeless (as proven) harmony and thematic melodies. To think he wrote “One for the vine” in his 20’s …. always wowed me. Yes, the other guys mattered and PC turned them into a money making global radio friendly pop band on the 80’s. But I’ve heard PC say, without Banks there would never of been a Genesis - I have to agree with him. Keith Emerson was the most influential on me—to get me to play again immediately after seeing him live (what a revelation), and getting into rock (prog) from having been classically trained. But beyond the stand up double stack with my modular synth behind me, a la Keith, no doubt my playing was far closer to Banks'. I always felt it was because we had much of the same classical influences, more than copying his style, but no doubt the hours of listening to him had its effect on me as well. (My old band had someone who had been associated with the Charisma label come by to hear us at rehearsal, our manager told me later he had remarked that the resemblance was uncanny...but then again I sat at the keyboard like Banks for rehearsals, and we had the same hair style and basic features, LOL. Heavy use of organ chords, monosynths leads, and strings, plus electric piano. But I was deeper into synths—building, programming.) |
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