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Post by geoff738 on Dec 26, 2023 16:48:04 GMT -6
Do I even need one, this is new territory for me.
I know of Black Salt, Venn, which has a freebie and a full featured one, bx, and standard clip by Sir. I am sure there are others.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by noob on Dec 26, 2023 18:40:42 GMT -6
I mentioned it in the oxford inflator thread already, but definitely deserves a mention in a clipper thread. Gold Clip by Schwabe digital is my go to. It's the only clipper plug I've ever used that I didn't want to take off.
It does the "thing" that [good] analog clipping does, and the gold knob is gold. You only need about .13 db of gold for the track to sound louder and it's mysterious in that I have no idea what the gold knob is doing, but it feels like it's almost like a tape like compression, but hi-res. Very much worth at least 30 day free trial.
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Post by Tbone81 on Dec 26, 2023 18:51:02 GMT -6
I’d say any clipper plug-in that tames peaks without you hearing it working is a good one…unfortunately I can’t actually recommend one because I use HW inserts to achieve the same thing.
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Post by tkaitkai on Dec 26, 2023 19:03:50 GMT -6
Big fan of clipping. For loudness purposes, it’s almost always better than limiting IME.
The best clipping plugin I’ve tried, without question, is Acustica Ash. Basically a Lavry Gold emu.
Haven’t tried Gold Clip yet, so I can’t comment on that one.
FreeClip by Venn Audio is a really good free option. Much lighter on CPU than Ash, so it often ends up on most of my mixes.
JST Clip is great for more aggressive/grungy clipping, particularly drum submixes.
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Post by ml on Dec 26, 2023 20:01:19 GMT -6
I like the T-Racks classic Clipper, mostly because it has 3 knobs.
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Post by bossanova on Dec 26, 2023 20:14:19 GMT -6
The only time I’ve regularly used a clipper is when I was working on episodes of a project with *very* dynamic dialogue and background noise as part of the audio. I used a compressor for general leveling duties but I also had the Event Horizon clipper in Reaper set to clip the craziest fast peaks on shouts, etc, to keep them from clipping the master bus while still maintaining decent level.
Other than that I have TDR Limiter and T-Racks Classic Clipper.
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Post by geoff738 on Dec 26, 2023 20:56:58 GMT -6
Hmmm. Gold Clip is pricey. Acoustica less so but I’ve seen several comments on here suggesting staying away from their stuff. I don’t entirely know the reasons. Maybe I dip my toe in with the free Venn and see where it leads. This is just for my personal crap so I’m not competing on loudness with commercial releases.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by geoff738 on Dec 26, 2023 21:00:03 GMT -6
I’d say any clipper plug-in that tames peaks without you hearing it working is a good one…unfortunately I can’t actually recommend one because I use HW inserts to achieve the same thing. What are you using? Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by noob on Dec 26, 2023 21:46:21 GMT -6
Hmmm. Gold Clip is pricey. Acoustica less so but I’ve seen several comments on here suggesting staying away from their stuff. I don’t entirely know the reasons. Maybe I dip my toe in with the free Venn and see where it leads. This is just for my personal crap so I’m not competing on loudness with commercial releases. Cheers, Geoff Yep, gold clip is pricey. I originally got the demo and tried it when it came out. It was great, but wasn't enough for me to buy it. Then, they updated the plugin to a new version and I couldn't turn it down at that point. Like I said, it's on all my mixes, really just a great 'finisher' plugin  I opted for the rent to own which is basically, you pay $25/mo (I think it was $20/mo recently on a deal, may still be available for that) and then when you pay it off, you own it forever. But, if you can't afford that much a month, then definitely don't bother! |
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Post by audiospecific on Dec 26, 2023 22:18:22 GMT -6
Do I even need one, this is new territory for me. I know of Black Salt, Venn, which has a freebie and a full featured one, bx, and standard clip by Sir. I am sure there are others. Cheers, Geoff
Its trying to do what people do physically with integrating a clip into an ADC that destroyed CD mastering with the loudness war.
So at 0dbfs recorded ends up being +6 dbfs after the dac.
I think it really changes the feel of the mix IMHO.
T-racks had one for years.
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Post by geoff738 on Dec 26, 2023 22:40:57 GMT -6
I like the T-Racks classic Clipper, mostly because it has 3 knobs. I like simple when it’s effective. I definitely get analysis paralysis when there is too much to futz with. Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by mcirish on Dec 26, 2023 22:42:16 GMT -6
I love clippers for taming snare drum peaks. Most transparent way of controlling them. I have a ton of clippers but mainly use Standard Clip in oversampling mode.
I saw that Saturate is on sale. That might be another good option I don't have yet. I used to use Boz Big Clipper version 1. You can cross fade between clipping and limiting. I liked it on kick. Unfortunately, the controls were less than intuitive. Big Clipper 2 is so different that it really isn't the same plugin. I tried using it but never got what I wanted.
Black Salt Clipper is super easy to use but has no oversampling, so I would only use it on drums.
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Post by audiospecific on Dec 26, 2023 23:03:21 GMT -6
I like the T-Racks classic Clipper, mostly because it has 3 knobs. I like simple when it’s effective. I definitely get analysis paralysis when there is too much to futz with. Cheers, Geoff try a -20db pad in front of a converter and drive the signal to just before clipping - same effect |
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Post by nudwig on Dec 26, 2023 23:05:54 GMT -6
Another vote here for Gold Clip (I'm on the $20/mo plan too). Before that it was Standard Clip, which still gets used, it's solid and easy. But yeah, the Gold knob of Gold Clip is really addicting.
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Post by drumsound on Dec 27, 2023 1:20:06 GMT -6
Do I even need one, this is new territory for me. NO |
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Post by theshea on Dec 27, 2023 2:26:45 GMT -6
i use the clipper in tdr limiter. but very little. question: what first? clipper or limiter? i can‘t hear a difference sonce using it very conservatively. so i guess it doesn‘t matter …whats your fav order?
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Post by lowlou on Dec 27, 2023 4:46:35 GMT -6
The gold clip "gold function" is a logarithmic gain. It boosts more the low level stuff, while boosting less the peaks. It might be frequency dependant also (not sure, it's been a long time since I've read the manual, I'm just using it without thinking too much about it now). So basically with the logarithmic gain, you maintain micro dynamic, yet you condense upward the dynamic range.
In result, it seems quite similar to the Laal dynamic transient function.
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Post by notneeson on Dec 27, 2023 11:43:47 GMT -6
Do I even need one, this is new territory for me. NO Leave it to mastering. (The Massey one sounds good to my ear, AND it’s really easy to overlook this effect). |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2023 12:00:06 GMT -6
The gold clip "gold function" is a logarithmic gain. It boosts more the low level stuff, while boosting less the peaks. It might be frequency dependant also (not sure, it's been a long time since I've read the manual, I'm just using it without thinking too much about it now). So basically with the logarithmic gain, you maintain micro dynamic, yet you condense upward the dynamic range. In result, it seems quite similar to the Laal dynamic transient function. It's just an overpriced waveshaping function with a ton of copy protection on it to overload your cpu. but an interesting one. Lavry emulation. Other clipper plugs probably have some similar transfer function as an option. Gold Clip only oversamples to 192 khz unlike Standard Clip, Limiter 6, Voxengo OVC-128, and Apogee Soft Limit plugin version so it is dirty. If you're clipping off peaks but trying to get the unmolested body of the signal, much more likely to have massive recontruction overs when pushing sample close to 0 fs than something with a couple big peaks that peak at -0.1 fs. Ridiculous cash grab attempt from mastering guy (almost certainly not an electrical engineer or a computer engineer. he might even have a partner who has a degree in marketing or something like the baby audio guy) who cannot code so hired a coder (Jatin Chowdhury of Chow Tape fame) under contract to make him one and paid for a pretty GUI. Schwabe Digital's Gold Clip and has to charge out the ass to pay him. Industry standard claims in youtube videos hilarious and remind me of the plugin alliance marketing. Yeah Lavry Gold was 20 years ago when there was money in this industry and digital limiters sucked. Not a 250 dollar clipper plug. But those old resistor converters have been surpassed. The low end on good modern converters is cleaner. I've even heard Lavry uses modern ICs in his current converters.
For anyone reading this, don't buy contracted out plugs like that. There will come a time when their owners have a cash crunch and cannot afford to pay someone to update or they are not profitable to update and they will be abandoned. Then you'll have to replace them years later and guess what they were doing and find something else to approximate their function in your session. This can be only 1 year if you are on Mac OS. Having them be an essential insert or send in your workflow is a recipe for disaster. Meanwhile the guy with the corporate plugs or the single active programmer companies sessions are still openable even if they make you pay an update fee. The corporate developer often employs programmers full-time (unless they're fucking avid) while the sole proprietor works for himself.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2023 12:11:17 GMT -6
Also the look ahead analog limiter, the LAAL, is technically not a good idea. Probably is some monstrosity based off old broadcast and vinyl cutting limiters. You cannot have a proper lookahead in analog period. It will not smooth the action of the volume modulation but just do it very fast prematurely like a ducker. Then it has to either release prematurely or have a hold time equal to the delay in addition to the normal release. so sharp transients hold your signal down. it's just a delay to compress peaks before they happen rather than to smooth the action of the volume modulation by using the delay as a window like in every lookahead limiter after the Waves L1. The pre waves Sony DAL-1000 and some bad plugins today still use delay + hold time. others have hold knobs that aren't really holds. the LAAL thing probably works like a DBX super gate but as a limiter with better sounding circuitry and some transient shaping and clipping going on. There's no reason to ever do anything like that in analog for a digital format really. It's preposterous and ridiculous. For digital lookahead limiters, the signal is delayed to have a windowing function to smooth the gain reduction to where it needs to go over a longer period of time. This means that the attack time needs to be finite and at least equal to the length of the window and the delay. Unlike in normal analog compressors, there is a minimum attack time in lookahead digital ones to not release prematurely or to need a brutish hold function like a gate. This means that the attack portion of the attack/release smoothing filter in a lookahead limiter must be a FIR filter, a linear phase filter, that's impossible to build in analog. This is why too long lookaheads in certain not great limiters sound like crap. Put them on drums, crank your lookahead slightly too long, and hear the ducking and sucking. That's what they're doing to your entire signal. www.sweetwater.com/insync/limiter-work/ |
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Post by lowlou on Dec 27, 2023 13:08:37 GMT -6
Well I quite like the Gold function in the Goldclip plugin ! It sound right. I hope they don't close shop in the near future... The developers explain that it's not waveshaping that they used (the conversation came up on Gearspace IIRC).
And the Laal, it's not for tomorrow ($$$$), but same thing, I've heard great demos. The Audio Animal review on Youtube... Even visually, the waveform of a program material treated with Laal looks relaxed and natural compared to digital brickwalls. I don't know exactly how the Laal design exploits the 2ms window, but it seems effective... Quite unique proposition, although I think that ADT from germany also have a high-end analog lookahead limiter design.
The Laal : I thought it sounded excellent on all the demos. Pricey technology...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2023 13:53:30 GMT -6
Well I quite like the Gold function in the Goldclip plugin ! It sound right. I hope they don't close shop in the near future... The developers explain that it's not waveshaping that they used (the conversation came up on Gearspace IIRC). And the Laal, it's not for tomorrow ($$$$), but same thing, I've heard great demos. The Audio Animal review on Youtube... Even visually, the waveform of a program material treated with Laal looks relaxed and natural compared to digital brickwalls. I don't know exactly how the Laal design exploits the 2ms window, but it seems effective... Quite unique proposition, although I think that ADT from germany also have a high-end analog lookahead limiter design. The Laal : I thought it sounded excellent on all the demos. Pricey technology... It's a soft clipper. There might be some other processes involved but it's a clipper. The alchemy is an instant dynamic eq. The criticism of artifacts from attack and release in the manual is hilarious because attack/release is a smoothing filter meant to slow down the volume modulation of compressors and limiters to make them less distorted than performing the modulation instantly. The best modern compressors and limiters can almost inaudibly put the signal under gain reduction the entire time with super low modulation sidebands and almost no harmonic distortion except for that from the rectifier and the peak detectors in the sidechain. Modern brickwall digital limiters and speaker protection circuits are combination instant clippers, super fast high ratio compressors, and slower volume levelers already. Adding some other clipper to put more of the signal under instant gain reduction, will just make it dirtier. The Lavry Soft Saturation abuse is huge on a lot of 90s and 2000s masters. |
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Post by noob on Dec 27, 2023 14:07:10 GMT -6
That's a very interesting take, Dan. I tend to trust my ears with my gear, though, and gold clip sounds amazing. I am not worried about updates being an issue. Ryan is very successful, I follow him on IG and he always has industry mastering work coming in. According to him, that's how he financed his dream, to create a great plugin. I also loved on the purple site thread how he updated the plugin based on feedback he got from the site.
He also has two other plugins in the works, and he is a phenomenal mastering engineer to say the least. I don't think there's much to worry about on that end, whether or not he is coding it himself, and don't understand such harsh criticisms against it. There are plenty of plugin companies that start that exact way.
It's just a plugin that does everything you need it to, and amazingly well at that. It's basically, either you can afford 20-25 a month for 10 months, or 200-250 in one sale, or you can't. If you can't afford it, don't bother demoing.
As far as the gold function goes, Ryan says it is tied to the clipper algo. I don't know the details of how it works, but as I said, I usually don't stick with a clipper this long. Every other clipper I've tried always ends up getting bypassed on export. Not the case with gold clip.
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Post by kristoferharris on Dec 27, 2023 16:50:56 GMT -6
Gold Clip and Saturate, top of the list for me. I use clippers all over the shop. Individual tracks, busses and master. Gentle gains along the way.
I’ve worked with Ryan (Schwabe Digital) on many, many projects, and will continue to do so in the long-term. He’s always struck me as greatly knowledgeable and is undoubtedly dedicated to the craft. There’s absolutely no way Gold Clip was conceived as a cash grab! More the product of a talented and ambitious guy.
Gold Clip is pricey but for sure my favourite and most used clipper by now. Admittedly I didn’t fully take to it on initial release but the updated version is tonally much more to my tastes (now have control over the severity of the hf roll off). Gold and Alchemy features always help, perhaps not as mysterious as some make out but sound great and are highly welcomed in the context of a clipper plug.
New Fangled Saturate is my other clipper of choice. Far more spongey due to its nature. Which is great for some things. Incredible value when on sale. Most of the others are sort of interchangeable imo.
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Post by geoff738 on Dec 27, 2023 17:14:07 GMT -6
Saturate is on for $20 at the moment.
Cheers,
Geoff
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