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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 8, 2023 12:05:09 GMT -6
Tracking some session guys with the cheapest equipment you could find. I'm really coming around to the thought that it's like 50% the song, 40% the player(s) and 10% the recording. Maybe a scarlet interface with a cheap mic for everything...Then mix it as good as you possibly can.
Or I should bring in session guys to play all of MY instruments to show me that anything I want to do is already possible lol. Have the drummer use SD3 with a pad, all keyboards midi, etc...
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Post by chessparov on Dec 8, 2023 13:09:07 GMT -6
They already have that... It's the Bedroom Producer/Modern Top 40.  No wonder Plush loves his Mackie! (But keep your paws off my Nanocompressor) Chris P.S. Scarlett? Cheap mic? Enough on my travel set up! |
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Post by jaba on Dec 8, 2023 13:17:10 GMT -6
It is fun!
A few years ago I tracked a full band - drums, vocal, bass, guitar, all in the same room - onto a cassette 4-track.
It was fun to use the same format I started on but with a few decades of experience.
I find these kind of experiments/projects take me out of my day to day and help me focus in new ways.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 8, 2023 14:23:19 GMT -6
Tracking some session guys with the cheapest equipment you could find. I'm really coming around to the thought that it's like 50% the song, 40% the player(s) and 10% the recording. Maybe a scarlet interface with a cheap mic for everything...Then mix it as good as you possibly can. Or I should bring in session guys to play all of MY instruments to show me that anything I want to do is already possible lol. Have the drummer use SD3 with a pad, all keyboards midi, etc... What would be interesting is to do what you said but also at the same time great gear. In the cases where the ideal mic position is the same for both you you position both so the perfected position is right between the 2. |
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 8, 2023 14:54:41 GMT -6
I have long known and realised the boutique gear that I’ve bought over the years has been a wonderful and fortunate indulgence, the ownership and use of that gear is a pleasure within itself. The added gloss and bronzed mid range detail all a feast of audio bliss for my ears and my appreciation. If it’s about “just enough to pass management” then I could be using prosumer gear and virtually only I’d notice. There’s a famous saying. “We never regret our indulgences”  |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 8, 2023 15:19:09 GMT -6
Can you get their with Cheap gear? Yeah it’s just easier and quicker with the good stuff. I’m the first to admit I would have been thrilled if you handed me a Sterling Mic 40 years ago, add a cheap interface and reaper it would have been nuts.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 8, 2023 16:09:04 GMT -6
Great for Michael Bolton too. These Chinesium tools. Just remember to snap on the Grid. This inspires me to revisit my Gold Ghetto Chains of Yore. Chris P.S. On MBox 2Mini (Blue). If anyone gives a... Darn |
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Post by drumsound on Dec 8, 2023 16:15:25 GMT -6
I think it would be interesting and fun to take part in.
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Post by guitfiddler on Dec 8, 2023 16:44:37 GMT -6
Make sure to pull out the Alesis 3630!
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 9, 2023 8:49:16 GMT -6
I cut all my tracking guide vocals (and scratch writing improvises) on a $99 dollar AKG C3000B into the 50 cent pre on my 20 year old Mackie 1402 VLZ.
The number of times my wife or even band members have said that sounds great - is that the final vocal !!!
Arrrggghhh!
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Post by chessparov on Dec 9, 2023 10:13:03 GMT -6
I think that's a product of having said budget gear, hanging around a lot. I wish I could have my BU67 and U195 around more but... I've had my car broken into before, so there's a security concern while at work. Plus even at home, I can't leave a Mic up normally, for long periods. (Let alone a Tube Mic set up) Unless TV background noise, adds atmosphere! (It's the 3rd Roommate ) Chris |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2023 10:24:58 GMT -6
Tracking some session guys with the cheapest equipment you could find. I'm really coming around to the thought that it's like 50% the song, 40% the player(s) and 10% the recording. Maybe a scarlet interface with a cheap mic for everything...Then mix it as good as you possibly can. Or I should bring in session guys to play all of MY instruments to show me that anything I want to do is already possible lol. Have the drummer use SD3 with a pad, all keyboards midi, etc... Yeah until you have to sit there with Rode NT1 overheads, a Chinese capsule condenser or knockoff SM58 on the vocal, a knockoff SM57 on guitars and snare, cheap Behringer pres that dull everything, and cheap conversion with aliasing in the high band killing whatever vibe is left over. That's when you have to produce it like electronic music to hide stuff.
Honestly "decent" is just a little bit more expensive than "crap". Think Shure SM57, KSM137/141 and the KSM LDCs, Audix OM7 or OM11 everything is live at once, EV635A is super useful, Oktavas can be cool to a lofi special effect on vocals, Line Audio, AT4033, etc. If you get a good capture, you can mix it down with dirt cheap tools you already own, eg klanghelm and tdr plugins are dirt cheap, dbx 500 series is like 200 bucks a channel and decent, fmr audio is rock solid, rather than having to mix it like you're Aphex Twin in MS-DOS or having to get out Izotope RX and pray.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 9, 2023 10:29:43 GMT -6
How do you guys feel about the Fmr. Audio "colored" Compressors. Ala RNLA and PBC-6A?
Chris
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2023 10:33:33 GMT -6
How do you guys feel about the Fmr. Audio "colored" Compressors. Ala RNLA and PCB? The PBC-6A is super cool but it's 500 bucks a channel for a color comp. That might be the entire mix budget for an independent record that can even afford a mix. |
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Post by chessparov on Dec 10, 2023 23:24:03 GMT -6
Further thoughts... Sometimes I think of nice/but lesser Gear, as particularly suited for sketching out ideas. Remember when "Demos" were more popular? So... Was in the mood today, to be along those lines. With a Practice piece (for Phrasing) AKG P120>UA Volt/"Vintage Button" on. Just MJUCJr. Vari-Mu Compression added. Obviously no De-Essing. Chris |
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Post by svart on Dec 15, 2023 7:43:34 GMT -6
"Fun" is not really the term I'd use..
However, I think I could do it pretty decently these days knowing what I know now and with my ears tuned fairly well.
I think the biggest issues with "Cheap gear" is that when you're at the stage of buying it, you're so inexperienced that you don't know what's "good" or "bad" about it. Some guys make it work because they just put mics in places they're told to put them in and it's a happy accident that they work. Others like me thought we knew better, so we experimented, but ultimately had zero basis for judgement and quicky lost our way in the forest while looking for trees.
Also, the "cheap gear" of yesterday was decidedly worse quality than the "cheap" stuff today. A modern 100$ Scarlett would be equivalent to a 2000$ Apogee from 20 years ago in terms of sound quality. You want to impress me? Go find an old USB interface from 2000 and do a record with it..
I used to think that the smiley-faced tone that most cheap gear has was how "pro" things were supposed to sound. I believed that the bright top end was "detail", and the bottom end was "depth".
Anyway, I now know that it's all about the midrange. With that, I could now probably do the "track everything with a 57" type of job and make it work pretty well. Not that I'd actually want to though.
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Post by chessparov on Dec 15, 2023 9:14:38 GMT -6
Guess I'm not sellin' my Scarlett either then. Sorry guys. |
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Post by theshea on Dec 15, 2023 10:14:55 GMT -6
cheap gear is ok but also more work at mixing stage. notching resonances and eq-repairing. if i had to start over again i would def buy one great chain: mic+preamp=more fun less work greater sound.
i am not shure if i would buy all those preamps and mics for recording a drumset … most music today or musicians just demand radio-ready sounds which means samples for kick and snare.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2023 12:35:28 GMT -6
"Fun" is not really the term I'd use.. However, I think I could do it pretty decently these days knowing what I know now and with my ears tuned fairly well. I think the biggest issues with "Cheap gear" is that when you're at the stage of buying it, you're so inexperienced that you don't know what's "good" or "bad" about it. Some guys make it work because they just put mics in places they're told to put them in and it's a happy accident that they work. Others like me thought we knew better, so we experimented, but ultimately had zero basis for judgement and quicky lost our way in the forest while looking for trees. Also, the "cheap gear" of yesterday was decidedly worse quality than the "cheap" stuff today. A modern 100$ Scarlett would be equivalent to a 2000$ Apogee from 20 years ago in terms of sound quality. You want to impress me? Go find an old USB interface from 2000 and do a record with it.. I used to think that the smiley-faced tone that most cheap gear has was how "pro" things were supposed to sound. I believed that the bright top end was "detail", and the bottom end was "depth". Anyway, I now know that it's all about the midrange. With that, I could now probably do the "track everything with a 57" type of job and make it work pretty well. Not that I'd actually want to though. That's not true at all about the Scarlett. The Apogee converters have a much better analog stage, do not use counterfeit caps, better filters, won't break. They used real chips from 20 years, not cheap codec chips with garbage onboard processing and poor filters. The Scarlett and other cheap Chinese made interfaces are pieces of shit. The cheap Steinbergs are better built but still sound like crap. |
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Post by chessparov on Dec 15, 2023 12:43:24 GMT -6
Up the $$ Interface chain Dan... IYO what's one of the Pro Entry Level units? SSL? Even Clarett? (Gasp!) Thanks, Chris |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2023 16:22:35 GMT -6
Tracking some session guys with the cheapest equipment you could find. I'm really coming around to the thought that it's like 50% the song, 40% the player(s) and 10% the recording. Maybe a scarlet interface with a cheap mic for everything...Then mix it as good as you possibly can. Or I should bring in session guys to play all of MY instruments to show me that anything I want to do is already possible lol. Have the drummer use SD3 with a pad, all keyboards midi, etc... I've done it, more than once. It's not fun and generally sounds crap. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 17, 2023 16:44:49 GMT -6
Tracking some session guys with the cheapest equipment you could find. I'm really coming around to the thought that it's like 50% the song, 40% the player(s) and 10% the recording. Maybe a scarlet interface with a cheap mic for everything...Then mix it as good as you possibly can. Or I should bring in session guys to play all of MY instruments to show me that anything I want to do is already possible lol. Have the drummer use SD3 with a pad, all keyboards midi, etc... I've done it, more than once. It's not fun and generally sounds crap. Probably very true. |
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Post by chessparov on Dec 17, 2023 16:55:15 GMT -6
Well there are two basic scenarios listed, in that original paragraph... IMHO usually you'd get better results, on the second one. BTW I pulled my U195 back "out of sale" recently. I think I want to hang on to it. My other "more budget/under $300" condensers, don't quite has the clarity and "authority" of it. Chris |
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Post by ab101 on Dec 17, 2023 20:20:01 GMT -6
Well there are two basic scenarios listed, in that original paragraph... IMHO usually you'd get better results, on the second one. BTW I pulled my U195 back "out of sale" recently. I think I want to hang on to it. My other "more budget/under $300" condensers, don't quite has the clarity and "authority" of it. Chris The U195 is a great mic. Glad you are keeping it. |
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Post by chessparov on Dec 17, 2023 20:39:00 GMT -6
Always have had good memories, related to getting it.
Now more poignant. Due to the passage of time.
And partly as it was the more carefree Pre-Pandemic then.
Chris
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