|
|
Post by copperx on Nov 13, 2023 13:43:17 GMT -6
Hi, I ran into a problem while recording an acoustic guitar: the slide sounds are so loud that I feel they're going to chop my head off. I've tried the Chapstick on the strings trick, and that reduced the noise significantly, but it's still there. Before resorting to RX, automation, et. al., I prefer to get it right at the source. Does anybody have any pointers? The room isn't particularily good sounding, and I know that johneppstein is adamant about 2 feet minimum distance between the mic and the guitar, but I can't add more distance because the artist wants the guitar to have plenty of artificial reverb (they already know what they want), and don't want to add more (bad) room tone. I've always closed miked acoustics with omnis and I never had this problem before. I'm using cardiod mics now. My signal chain is Soyuz 013 FET (spaced pair) -> VP28 -> MOTU 828es. An example of an offending slide below. Offending Slides Example.wavThe right mic is far from the fingerboard, but here we are.  |
|
|
|
Post by bgrotto on Nov 13, 2023 14:11:04 GMT -6
This is mostly a technique issue, though different strings can help.
Once recorded, rx spectral editor can sometimes perform miracles.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Nov 13, 2023 14:14:35 GMT -6
Two often useful solutions: 1. D'addario and Martin coated acoustic strings 2. Glysomed scent-free hand creme (Blister company) www.glysomed.com that cream is so good, even your fingerprints disappear to most scanners. |
|
|
|
Post by christophert on Nov 13, 2023 14:43:12 GMT -6
A good de-esser helps get rid of squeaks, but as Ward stated - better strings is the best approach. |
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Nov 13, 2023 14:59:20 GMT -6
1. Instrument and player. Change either or both if it's too problematic.
2. Mic placement.
3. Mic choice.
Implementing these three WILL get you there. Some might be troublesome (like replacing a player), but I've watched George Doering sit dead center in the middle of an orchestra playing pp-mp as the principal soloist standing out big, sight reading a difficult finger picked (harmonic and melodic) part close mic'd with ZERO string squeaks.
The instrument and player will get you there. If you can't get what you want out of #1 - #2 and #3 will get you closer. Your 12th fret placement is going to be problematic for a "squeaky" instrument / player.
|
|
|
|
Post by copperx on Nov 13, 2023 15:01:04 GMT -6
Two often useful solutions: 1. D'addario and Martin coated acoustic strings 2. Glysomed scent-free hand creme (Blister company) www.glysomed.com that cream is so good, even your fingerprints disappear to most scanners. Cool! Are those coated strings usable after changing them, or are they bright and have to be well worn to tame them? I'll get that Glysomed ASAP, too. |
|
|
|
Post by copperx on Nov 13, 2023 15:10:18 GMT -6
1. Instrument and player. Change either or both if it's too problematic. 2. Mic placement. 3. Mic choice. Implementing these three WILL get you there. Some might be troublesome (like replacing a player), but I've watched George Doering sit dead center in the middle of an orchestra playing pp-mp as the principal soloist standing out big, sight reading a difficult finger picked (harmonic and melodic) part close mic'd with ZERO string squeaks. The instrument and player will get you there. If you can't get what you want out of #1 - #2 and #3 will get you closer. Your 12th fret placement is going to be problematic for a "squeaky" instrument / player. Thanks. If it comes to that, regarding the 12th fret placement, is there a particular placement that helps with squeaks? |
|
|
|
Post by dok on Nov 13, 2023 15:36:15 GMT -6
Thanks. If it comes to that, regarding the 12th fret placement, is there a particular placement that helps with squeaks? This may or may not be self-evident, but point it more toward the soundhole, or even the bridge. I hardly ever point a mic directly at the 12th fret anymore. Also a dynamic EQ can be helpful - I use TDR Nova. It will not eliminate squeaks but it can definitely help push them into the background. |
|
|
|
Post by winetree on Nov 13, 2023 16:04:45 GMT -6
I've used this for years for live playing and studio use.
FINGER-EASE
Leading string lubricant for over 35 years
Effective on steel-wound, Nylong, and gut strings
Reduces finger tenderness and smooths callouses
Stop string talk
Cleans and protects to extend the life of strings
|
|
|
|
Post by drbill on Nov 13, 2023 17:26:25 GMT -6
1. Instrument and player. Change either or both if it's too problematic. 2. Mic placement. 3. Mic choice. Implementing these three WILL get you there. Some might be troublesome (like replacing a player), but I've watched George Doering sit dead center in the middle of an orchestra playing pp-mp as the principal soloist standing out big, sight reading a difficult finger picked (harmonic and melodic) part close mic'd with ZERO string squeaks. The instrument and player will get you there. If you can't get what you want out of #1 - #2 and #3 will get you closer. Your 12th fret placement is going to be problematic for a "squeaky" instrument / player. Thanks. If it comes to that, regarding the 12th fret placement, is there a particular placement that helps with squeaks? When recording stereo, I'll generally go over the R shoulder - from the back - pointing down towards the sound hole. Try that. |
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Nov 13, 2023 18:16:41 GMT -6
I posted the same question a few years back.. realgearonline.com/thread/10780/string-squeakIt went down a rabbit hole or two. Skip to the last post for my solution. I included a SC of the track, which I'm pretty sure used an openish tuning and involved a ton of sliding. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,943 
|
Post by ericn on Nov 13, 2023 18:50:50 GMT -6
Two often useful solutions: 1. D'addario and Martin coated acoustic strings 2. Glysomed scent-free hand creme (Blister company) www.glysomed.com that cream is so good, even your fingerprints disappear to most scanners. What are these things you call finger prints. |
|
|
|
Post by copperx on Nov 13, 2023 23:02:14 GMT -6
Two often useful solutions: 1. D'addario and Martin coated acoustic strings 2. Glysomed scent-free hand creme (Blister company) www.glysomed.com that cream is so good, even your fingerprints disappear to most scanners. What are these things you call finger prints. Hahaha. My dad is a clean freak and he likes to handwash dishes with bleach. We've insisted that he shouldn't but we've given up. He can't use the fingerprint reader on his MacBook or iPad. He has no fingerprints. |
|
ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,943
|
Post by ericn on Nov 13, 2023 23:23:47 GMT -6
What are these things you call finger prints. Hahaha. My dad is a clean freak and he likes to handwash dishes with bleach. We've insisted that he shouldn't but we've given up. He can't use the fingerprint reader on his MacBook or iPad. He has no fingerprints. Ironically it reads scar tissue like a finger print, or that’s what think it’s reading. |
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Nov 14, 2023 6:34:53 GMT -6
What are these things you call finger prints. Hahaha. My dad is a clean freak and he likes to handwash dishes with bleach. We've insisted that he shouldn't but we've given up. He can't use the fingerprint reader on his MacBook or iPad. He has no fingerprints. Oddly enough, the daily use of Glysomed seems to have flattened my fingerprints to the point of being illegible to my iPhone SE's print reader. but hey, no strong squeaks! |
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Nov 14, 2023 6:55:08 GMT -6
Spoiler for those who didn't click on the link to the other related thread. My solution was to make less noise while playing. Seriously! I was surprised how much noise I could mitigate just by focusing on it while playing.
However, ultimately I completely solved the problem about a year ago (due to a lingering golfer's elbow issue, which has made playing the guitar quite painful) by playing piano instead. Squeak issue solved..
..but it's been replaced by pedal/damper noise, which by the way can be solved in similar fashion. The trick is to realize that you don't need to press the damper pedal any where near all the way down, and adjust your technique accordingly. In both cases (guitar and piano), you really only need to take extra care in exposed passages.
|
|
|
|
Post by copperx on Nov 14, 2023 9:37:11 GMT -6
Spoiler for those who didn't click on the link to the other related thread. My solution was to make less noise while playing. Seriously! I was surprised how much noise I could mitigate just by focusing on it while playing. However, ultimately I completely solved the problem about a year ago (due to a lingering golfer's elbow issue, which has made playing the guitar quite painful) by playing piano instead. Squeak issue solved.. ..but it's been replaced by pedal/damper noise, which by the way can be solved in similar fashion. The trick is to realize that you don't need to press the damper pedal any where near all the way down, and adjust your technique accordingly. In both cases (guitar and piano), you really only need to take extra care in exposed passages. Thanks! I'll see if the player can change his technique. |
|
|
|
Post by lee on Nov 14, 2023 9:56:12 GMT -6
Spoiler for those who didn't click on the link to the other related thread. My solution was to make less noise while playing. Seriously! I was surprised how much noise I could mitigate just by focusing on it while playing. However, ultimately I completely solved the problem about a year ago (due to a lingering golfer's elbow issue, which has made playing the guitar quite painful) by playing piano instead. Squeak issue solved.. ..but it's been replaced by pedal/damper noise, which by the way can be solved in similar fashion. The trick is to realize that you don't need to press the damper pedal any where near all the way down, and adjust your technique accordingly. In both cases (guitar and piano), you really only need to take extra care in exposed passages. It’s like how most of us make a loud performance of a sneeze noise, but if you think about it, you can pass a sneeze quietly without all the hype. |
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Nov 15, 2023 9:34:01 GMT -6
Hi, I ran into a problem while recording an acoustic guitar: the slide sounds are so loud that I feel they're going to chop my head off. I've tried the Chapstick on the strings trick, and that reduced the noise significantly, but it's still there. Before resorting to RX, automation, et. al., I prefer to get it right at the source. Does anybody have any pointers? The room isn't particularily good sounding, and I know that johneppstein is adamant about 2 feet minimum distance between the mic and the guitar, but I can't add more distance because the artist wants the guitar to have plenty of artificial reverb (they already know what they want), and don't want to add more (bad) room tone. I've always closed miked acoustics with omnis and I never had this problem before. I'm using cardiod mics now. My signal chain is Soyuz 013 FET (spaced pair) -> VP28 -> MOTU 828es. An example of an offending slide below. Offending Slides Example.wavThe right mic is far from the fingerboard, but here we are.
HMmmm... Well, speaking up for traditional micing techniques, I see two immediate problems:
1) Too many microphones. There's a old recording adasge that says "Never use 2 mics when 1 will do the job."
2) Mics too damn close to the guitar. The one directly over the fingerboard - WHY!? Do you really want clatter and string noise?
When I mic an acoustic guitar I typically have the KM84 2-3 feet away, placed for a balanced sound. I haven't used the Soyuz, but I hear they're prelly good, aside from the white shell. 
If you don't like the room sound, put up some absorption. A well placed packing blanket can work wonders.
There's another old adage: "Acoustic solutions for Acouric problems."
|
|
|
|
Post by niklas1073 on Nov 15, 2023 10:00:28 GMT -6
Yeah you could try another micing and that would probably hide some of it. But at the end of the day it’s about performance. I would work on the chord changes. A good performance will sound great wherever you put the mic, around the 12th or around the sound hole. I mean, your miking was not that much off if that is the sound in general you are aiming for, sounded ok except for the chord changes.
|
|
|
|
Post by tkaitkai on Nov 15, 2023 19:46:09 GMT -6
I think you might be overanalyzing, which I don’t mean as an insult, as I’m definitely guilty of this myself.
The example posted doesn’t sound bad at all. It’s a guitar — it squeaks. I would honestly just leave it be. Go in and edit each squeak by hand. Nothing a little clip gain and AudioSuite EQ/deessing can’t handle.
|
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Nov 29, 2023 10:22:50 GMT -6
I think you might be overanalyzing, which I don’t mean as an insult, as I’m definitely guilty of this myself. The example posted doesn’t sound bad at all. It’s a guitar — it squeaks. I would honestly just leave it be. Go in and edit each squeak by hand. Nothing a little clip gain and AudioSuite EQ/deessing can’t handle. The guitar is a Gibson Hummingbird, and from the color of the finish,an older one. Such guitars have been recorded hundreds of times without obnoxious squeaks. The problem is mic placement. Pull the mic (single) back a couple of feet and keep it the hell away from the neck! It's not that hard to mic an acoustic guitar,you just have to use a great mic and ignore all the fancy "methods" (experiments) that clutter the internet. Looking at old studio pictures of players like Dylan and Baez (and a raft of other '60s folkies) can help a lot.
You know, back in the folkie days they didn't have all those fancy gizmos to "fix" engineers' errors in technique, and they still got consistently great guitar sounds.
What are you using for monitors?
|
|
|
|
Post by johneppstein on Nov 29, 2023 10:38:55 GMT -6
Yeah you could try another micing and that would probably hide some of it. But at the end of the day it’s about performance. I would work on the chord changes. A good performance will sound great wherever you put the mic, around the 12th or around the sound hole. I mean, your miking was not that much off if that is the sound in general you are aiming for, sounded ok except for the chord changes. It matters if you've got the mic too damn close!
And getting bossy about the player's technique can open up a whole other can of worms in the studio. And probably won't gain you much in the current session, either.
|
|
|
|
Post by niklas1073 on Nov 29, 2023 11:10:47 GMT -6
Yeah you could try another micing and that would probably hide some of it. But at the end of the day it’s about performance. I would work on the chord changes. A good performance will sound great wherever you put the mic, around the 12th or around the sound hole. I mean, your miking was not that much off if that is the sound in general you are aiming for, sounded ok except for the chord changes. It matters if you've got the mic too damn close!
And getting bossy about the player's technique can open up a whole other can of worms in the studio. And probably won't gain you much in the current session, either.
Yes and no. Sure you will be able to adjust to the better to some extent with mic placing, but what I could pick up from the track I believe I heard other issues I would address first. Sure it’s always very delicate to address technique but I would not mind going there if that would solve the issue and is within the artists capability. It’s not about being bossy i believe, it’s about supporting the artist to the best performance possible. Personally I will have the player working it and reinventing him/herself within the frames of plausible if the performance is not up to par to begin with. |
|
|
|
Post by copperx on Nov 29, 2023 11:22:10 GMT -6
What are you using for monitors? Because I'm recording at his house, I'm just using a pair of Grado headphones there. Back in my place I have NS-10s and Kalis. |
|
