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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 1, 2014 15:23:55 GMT -6
I have it on good authority That (the sinsay)Shannon, owner of Mic Rehab is going to be offering custom C12/ and specialty tweaked elam251 capsules! This is going to be some serious shit right here! Maybe Shan will chime in and give us some of the details? Exciting!
@sinsay
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jul 1, 2014 15:37:38 GMT -6
Sounds good. I'd be interested in a cap for that MK-U 47 as well. Maybe he can borrow one of McBrides 47's and tune em in.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 1, 2014 16:56:51 GMT -6
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 1, 2014 18:09:40 GMT -6
why didn't it work when i tagged @sinsay ?? edit; see it did it again...  |
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Post by ragan on Jul 1, 2014 19:24:10 GMT -6
Sign me up for a 251 cap.
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Post by Shannon on Jul 1, 2014 19:50:31 GMT -6
Hey who started this shit ............jk To be honest and no politics involved it's always been my favorite .. love the sound creamy rich ...... Almost makes my nippies hard..lol I wanted to see how much interest there was after browsing the threads.. I know there is a demand for the DIY (Dan D.) group capsules. Tim C. Is backed up. (Respect) I can tell you that prob first batch will be OG with OG parts  . Then see how it goes would like to do the version I used to do. There is very little change from a OG and what I used to assemble, to the naked eye I doubt could be seen. Talking +- .01 in some areas. At the end of the day or the beginning of it and your session is over, when you listen to your vocals (etc) and smile ,, hells yea Brb |
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Post by Shannon on Jul 1, 2014 20:05:12 GMT -6
Sounds good. I'd be interested in a cap for that MK-U 47 as well. Maybe he can borrow one of McBrides 47's and tune em in. Hell yea let me know, no prob just did a Blue ( refurb one they did ) today with a lil goodies under the hood and custom build capsule for the director of education at Blackbird Academy. Turned out awesome and a/b with OG. Like I said I was happy. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 1, 2014 20:15:58 GMT -6
Finding this confusing: thought the c12 and 251 were the same mike rebadged, same cap and the only real difference is 3-4 resisters ?
With the 251 having a more rolled off top ?
having someone with a great rep making caps sounds great but the resisters are readily available to tune a c12 to a 251 ?
apologies if I have this historically wrong ?
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 15,006 
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Post by ericn on Jul 1, 2014 20:34:19 GMT -6
^^ C12 and ELAM251 did use the same capsule, BUT a skilled tech could build / tune said capsule to the circuit / bring out more of what one expects of the mic!
Sinsay Good to hear ! It would be great to have an alternative to Tim's excellent piece ! The more the marrier!
Who knows with other excellent alternatives we could end up with even better Capsules!
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Post by Shannon on Jul 1, 2014 20:40:14 GMT -6
^^ C12 and ELAM251 did use the same capsule, BUT a skilled tech could build / tune said capsule to the circuit / bring out more of what one expects of the mic! Sinsay Good to hear ! It would be great to have an alternative to Tim's excellent piece ! The more the marrier! Who knows with other excellent alternatives we could end up with even better Capsules! Yep yep...... Thanx |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 1, 2014 21:10:23 GMT -6
why didn't it work when i tagged @sinsay ?? edit; see it did it again... It's sinsay787. If you don't use the quick reply at the bottom and click reply, there's a tag button up top. Once you click it you can start typing the name and it will pop up. It's weird - some people's screen name and tag name are different. I think it has to do with how you sign up. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 1, 2014 21:14:24 GMT -6
Shannon Could I put one of these in say - a Blue Bluebird with decent results? Or some cheap tube mic?
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Post by deehope on Jul 1, 2014 21:17:16 GMT -6
Awesome... I know what capsules going in my c12 clone. How much r they gonna be?
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 1, 2014 21:52:30 GMT -6
Finding this confusing: thought the c12 and 251 were the same mike rebadged, same cap and the only real difference is 3-4 resisters ? With the 251 having a more rolled off top ? having someone with a great rep making caps sounds great but the resisters are readily available to tune a c12 to a 251 ? apologies if I have this historically wrong ? All the C12 capsules back in the day were not created equal, first the backplates were the hardest ones to manufacture consistently, there are also variances in the assembly steps that are hard to get exactly matched from capsule to capsule(capacitance, skin tensions, lapping and such), Tim has recreated painstakingly accurate copies of his favorite original AKG C12 capsule, Shannon is another master capable of doing the same, It's like taking a very good out of the crate motocross bike, and getting the top mechanics to custom taylor and dial it in to your own personal fire breathing motocross beast! lol ^ Shannon 8) |
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Post by Shannon on Jul 1, 2014 22:53:18 GMT -6
Finding this confusing: thought the c12 and 251 were the same mike rebadged, same cap and the only real difference is 3-4 resisters ? With the 251 having a more rolled off top ? having someone with a great rep making caps sounds great but the resisters are readily available to tune a c12 to a 251 ? apologies if I have this historically wrong ? All the C12 capsules back in the day were not created equal, first the backplates were the hardest ones to manufacture consistently, there are also variances in the assembly steps that are hard to get exactly matched from capsule to capsule(capacitance, skin tensions, lapping and such), Tim has recreated painstakingly accurate copies of his favorite original AKG C12 capsule, Shannon is another master capable of doing the same, It's like taking a very good out of the crate motocross bike, and getting the top mechanics to custom taylor and dial it in to your own personal fire breathing motocross beast! lol ^ Shannon 8) Nice ! Just like turning pro at motocross or the more experienced you are in the studio the more you know what you want and need to get it done. It's hard to build one cap for all, that's why is so hard to do a clone IMO. |
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Post by svart on Jul 2, 2014 7:41:20 GMT -6
Shannon Could I put one of these in say - a Blue Bluebird with decent results? Or some cheap tube mic? Bluebirds have decent capsules in them.. it's the solid state electronics that can use some help. |
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Post by svart on Jul 2, 2014 7:43:10 GMT -6
So, since chinese manufacturing is so good these days, is it possible to do a lower cost line of capsules that use the chinese backplates but with new or properly tensioned diaphragms?
What is an OG capsule BTW?
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Post by Shannon on Jul 2, 2014 8:09:15 GMT -6
OG is "Original Ganster" or "original OG" old school throwback on slang but is used as "Original" aka stock
Lol srry
The capsules from there (China) have a really bad rap. ( no pun intended ) a blueprint is a blueprint. When they first started making them the programming and, the materials they both were below par.
When I started working on them years ago they actually had put a small piece of brass on top of what looks like Plexiglas for the mylar ring which would Flex and break at times. This was one of many issues they had.
I have a lot of CNC experience. One of the most visual issues was the surface being all damaged. When you drill all those multiple holes you use a cycle or macro called drill and peck method instead of one straight drill through. Without pecking the drill will walk and be out of tolerance. What you do is drill the hole down -.020 or specified depth, then retract to clean the drill bit, but when completed the depth the Z retract height was not high enough to clear the surface. This would scar or aka leave a drag marks on the surface. You keep Z at a min on your retract, So you save time. Finally they retracted the tool Heights to clear the holes and surface. Travel time adds up with all those holes. With any CNC production you have a learning curve apparently they caught on now.
In fact there was only one or two companies until recently. Miktek was one of the companies that went elsewhere and started proprietary place to make capsules.
Blah blah u get the pic there are some thing that they have or won't catch on about and I think it called listening to them rather than testing.
I have to admit the repeatability without heirs was amazing though Let's just say in the very near future there will be capsules around that are affordable and sound incredible that's all I'm saying
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Post by kidvybes on Jul 2, 2014 8:14:46 GMT -6
So, since chinese manufacturing is so good these days, is it possible to do a lower cost line of capsules that use the chinese backplates but with new or properly tensioned diaphragms? ...not to spam Sinsay's thread, but Eric Heiserman has been re-skinning quite a few of the better Chinese capsules for Jim Jacobson/JJ Audio for years with very favorable results (JJ Audio offers them as a more affordable option to the high-end capsules in their mods/clones)...he's currently reskinning a ShuaiYin K47 for me as a favor... ...I'm sure Shannon offers similar service... |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 2, 2014 8:17:05 GMT -6
So, since chinese manufacturing is so good these days, is it possible to do a lower cost line of capsules that use the chinese backplates but with new or properly tensioned diaphragms? ...not to spam Sinsay's thread, but Eric Heiserman has been re-skinning quite a few of the better Chinese capsules for Jim Jacobson/JJ Audio for years with very favorable results...he's currently reskinning a ShuaiYin K47 for me as a favor... ...I'm sure Shannon offers similar service... All of his capsules are blue... cdn.hiconsumption.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Breaking-Bad-Heisenberg-Blue-Glass-Rock-Candy-3.jpg |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 2, 2014 8:17:30 GMT -6
(Breaking Bad Reference)
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Post by Shannon on Jul 2, 2014 8:32:25 GMT -6
fyi
I spoke with Eric, and he seems like a kewl and knowledgable dude. We are gonna meet at Namm. much respect.
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Post by svart on Jul 2, 2014 8:34:14 GMT -6
OG is "Original Ganster" or "original OG" old school throwback on slang but is used as "Original" aka stock Lol srry The capsules from there (China) have a really bad rap. ( no pun intended ) a blueprint is a blueprint. But when they first started making them the materials they used and the method they used was far from good. When I started working on them years ago they actually had put a small piece of brass on top of what looks like Plexiglas for the mylar ring which would Flex and break at times. I have a lot of CNC backgroud. When you drill all those multiple holes you use a cycle or macro called drill peck. They would drill the hole down .020 or specified, then retract to clean the drill bit. but when completed the depth the Z retract height was not high enough to clear the surface, this would scar the surface. You keep Z at a min So you save time they finally retracted the tool Heights to clear the holes and surface. Travel time adds up. With any CNC production you have a learning curve apparently they caught on now. In fact there was only one company or two until recently and miktek being one of the companies that went elsewhere and started proprietary place to make capsules Blah blah u get the pic there are some thing that they have or won't catch on about and I think it called listening to them rather than testing. I have to admit the repeatability without heirs was amazing though Let's just say in the very near future there will be capsules around that are affordable and sound incredible that's all I'm saying That's cool. I worked as a manager/engineer doing electromechanical design for 4 years, so I'm very familiar with CNC work from various parts of the world, and micromachining. The issue I had with china(10 years ago) was not knowledge but machine tolerance. China has(had?) rules to encourage their industries to use chinese machinery, which until the last couple years was not able to do extremely high tolerances(precision) and only a few of the companies I dealt with had foreign machines able to do better than 0.01" precision. We were typically shooting for 0.001" for some of the parts (micro gearing assemblies). On another note, we also tried to have India make us some parts. Max tolerance was specified as +/-0.01" and the parts we got back had tolerances of +/-0.25... Yes 1/4".. Not only that but the parts were supposed to be 303/304SS and 6061 aluminum with hard black anodizing. We got a mix of 303, 18/8 and something else and some 6061 with some other alloy where the anodizing hadn't even stuck and they had painted the parts black to try to hide it.. it was a nightmare. 80% of the parts were trash. |
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Post by kidvybes on Jul 2, 2014 8:38:03 GMT -6
fyi I spoke with Eric, seems like kewl dude we are gonna meet at Namm. much repect ...yes Shannon, I introduced Eric to your fine work via your Facebook page (those "special mylar" pics are mind-bending!) and when he saw that you were based in Nashville, he was determined to link up with you... ...and now, Sinsay's "special mylar" I spoke of: Attachments:
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Post by svart on Jul 2, 2014 8:41:05 GMT -6
So, since chinese manufacturing is so good these days, is it possible to do a lower cost line of capsules that use the chinese backplates but with new or properly tensioned diaphragms? ...not to spam Sinsay's thread, but Eric Heiserman has been re-skinning quite a few of the better Chinese capsules for Jim Jacobson/JJ Audio for years with very favorable results (JJ Audio offers them as a more affordable option to the high-end capsules in their mods/clones)...he's currently reskinning a ShuaiYin K47 for me as a favor... ...I'm sure Shannon offers similar service... I asked because I've noticed that some of the chinese capsules sound pretty great for what they are. Some sound really terrible too. I mentioned it in a thread that is long buried in the forum somewhere, but I bought a handful of cheap edge-terminated capsules and gave them a try. I found that one side would sound great, while the other would be blah. Another capsule would sound bad on both sides while another would have a zing on the top end but the body of the sound would be good. Overall, I picked the best and used it for my mic and sold the next best one to a friend for his C12 clone, we just turned the lesser performing side of the capsule towards the back since he'd really only be using his in cardioid for vocals. All in all, I see potential in these, it's just that they aren't reliably tuned from the factory. |
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. Then see how it goes would like to do the version I used to do. There is very little change from a OG and what I used to assemble, to the naked eye I doubt could be seen. Talking +- .01 in some areas. At the end of the day or the beginning of it and your session is over, when you listen to your vocals (etc) and smile ,, hells yea 
