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Post by indiehouse on May 13, 2023 7:26:27 GMT -6
I don’t understand? I keep reading about all these studios needing to install a gazillion new speakers or get left behind. But why? I don’t understand how this translates down to a guy like me who enjoys putting on a record in my living room for enjoyment. Or earbuds. Or my car. Am I missing something? Who has Atmos setups in their homes for music playback?
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Post by sean on May 13, 2023 7:44:06 GMT -6
ATMOS sound bars are relatively inexpensive. There are a lot of spatial audio headphones (even AirPods Pros). It's still niche but there's a lot of money to be made if you have the facility to do it. You don't "have" to have $250,000 worth of speakers...that's for the .1% in the industry that can afford that.
Personally, by the end of this year, if the demand for stems and spatial mixes stays the same or increases, will try and set up a fairly low budget home ATMOS system for mixing because if I'm going to have to make stems to send to someone else to do a spatial mix of a record I made, I'd rather do it myself. I'll probably use all Neumann KH80's and a KH750 subwoofer and an Avid MTRX Studio. I'm sure they'll be a bit of a learning curve (I've done a few spatial mixes) but it's still at the growing pains stage.
I'd say if it's something you're interested in it's worth exploring and there's work to be had mixing in ATMOS. But, if you don't dig it, don't worry about it.
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Post by indiehouse on May 13, 2023 7:48:08 GMT -6
I should clarify that I’m asking as a listener rather than a mixer. Why should I care? Feels like I’ve been here before. Surround sound. 3D televisions. Etc. Is it expected that most listeners will care enough? Am I just getting old?
Also, how is this going to effect my own music creation? Did I hear that you can’t get your music on Apple unless it’s Atmos now?
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Post by sean on May 13, 2023 8:07:40 GMT -6
As a listener, right now any way, I don’t think the headphone experience is great.
For Apple, if you want playlist placement, you need an ATMOS mix
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Post by Quint on May 13, 2023 8:59:10 GMT -6
As a listener, right now any way, I don’t think the headphone experience is great. For Apple, if you want playlist placement, you need an ATMOS mix If you're not actually interested in the spatial experience, and are only interested in doing an ATMOS mix to facilitate getting on a playlist (as you mentioned for Apple), is it possible to somehow game the system and just put the same stereo mix on all of the other channels? That way you have an ATMOS "mix" for playlist placement |
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Post by drumsound on May 13, 2023 10:05:33 GMT -6
As a listener, right now any way, I don’t think the headphone experience is great. For Apple, if you want playlist placement, you need an ATMOS mix If you're not actually interested in the spatial experience, and are only interested in doing an ATMOS mix to facilitate getting on a playlist (as you mentioned for Apple), is it possible to somehow game the system and just put the same stereo mix on all of the other channels? That way you have an ATMOS "mix" for playlist placement Or maybe even simpler, set up a really low level reverb or something that's barely there. |
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Post by spindrift on May 13, 2023 10:12:42 GMT -6
Why do you think Apple is pushing this so hard?
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Post by christopher on May 13, 2023 10:55:10 GMT -6
The reverb trick explains the terrible experience where it sounds like a bookshelf stereo in a room. I’ve heard a lot of those, I bet they mixed on regular speakers
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Post by seawell on May 13, 2023 11:05:09 GMT -6
It seems to flare up every year right around NAMM 🤔
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Post by drumsound on May 13, 2023 12:03:09 GMT -6
It seems to flare up every year right around NAMM 🤔 Funny that. |
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Post by Quint on May 13, 2023 12:31:42 GMT -6
If you're not actually interested in the spatial experience, and are only interested in doing an Atmos mix to facilitate getting on a playlist (as you mentioned for Apple), is it possible to somehow game the system and just put the same stereo mix on all of the other channels? That way you have an Atmos "mix" for playlist placement Or maybe even simpler, set up a really low level reverb or something that's barely there. Or that. I'm pretty indifferent to the whole Atmos concept, and certainly don't want to spend money on an Atmos system. But if you could just do your usual stereo mix, and then duplicate that on the other channels, you wouldn't need a bunch of other speakers. Or you could try the reverb trick. Either way, you wouldn't need anything more than the pair of monitors you already own. It's silly that Apple would require an Atmos mix to get on a playlist in the first place, so I wouldn't feel one bit bad about doing something like this. |
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Post by jmoose on May 13, 2023 13:41:58 GMT -6
I should clarify that I’m asking as a listener rather than a mixer. Why should I care? Feels like I’ve been here before. Surround sound. 3D televisions. Etc. Is it expected that most listeners will care enough? Am I just getting old? Also, how is this going to effect my own music creation? Did I hear that you can’t get your music on Apple unless it’s Atmos now? Despite various changes in release formats over the years... even decades... I still believe the #1 obstacle to artists music landing on playlists & getting in people's earholes is still actually just releasing something. History shows once new music is released, other details tend to sort themselves out. Why should you care about Atmos? I dunno. Personally I don't give it any thought. Mostly because nobodies asking me about that, just like nobody really asked me about 5.1 mixes years ago. I'm pretty sure most of this work is either corporate related... like the gecko lizard wants his new commercials mixed in Atmos, because that's what everyone does now... or its super corporate albums. Pink Floyd reissues. Taylor Swift. The mega stuff. Most of the artists I work with have enough issues trying to secure enough funding to assemble material their happy enough to release as it is. Conversations like... hey... I know y'all put together the $5k for this, but you really need another $2k for an Atmos remix & master to get on playlists? Yeah. That never happens. |
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Post by EmRR on May 13, 2023 13:52:31 GMT -6
^
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on May 13, 2023 14:37:38 GMT -6
^^
The moose nailed it!
Could we see a change? Sure but at the very least it’s going to be a while!
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Post by Ward on May 13, 2023 17:25:16 GMT -6
Why do you think Apple is pushing this so hard? Because they see it as value added content they can sell for a greater margin |
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Post by spindrift on May 13, 2023 18:38:19 GMT -6
Why do you think Apple is pushing this so hard? Because they see it as value added content they can sell for a greater margin It’s because they are trying to differentiate themselves from Spotify….if they can get everyone on board with ATMOS, then people will ditch non-ATMOS Spotify for an Apple Music sub. Follow the $. The gear manufacturers and ATMOS mixing engineers will happily oblige the big push to their own great profit. |
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Post by indiehouse on May 13, 2023 19:21:23 GMT -6
Because they see it as value added content they can sell for a greater margin It’s because they are trying to differentiate themselves from Spotify….if they can get everyone on board with ATMOS, then people will ditch non-ATMOS Spotify for an Apple Music sub. Follow the $. The gear manufacturers and ATMOS mixing engineers will happily oblige the big push to their own great profit. But won’t consumers drive demand? That’s what I don’t get. Are consumers asking for Atmos? I feel like the earbud generation doesn’t give a shit. I’m in my mid-forties. I don’t give a shit. So, who’s caring enough that’s motivating these studio guys to drop tens of thousands of dollars on an Atmos setup? |
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Post by spindrift on May 13, 2023 19:30:32 GMT -6
It’s because they are trying to differentiate themselves from Spotify….if they can get everyone on board with ATMOS, then people will ditch non-ATMOS Spotify for an Apple Music sub. Follow the $. The gear manufacturers and ATMOS mixing engineers will happily oblige the big push to their own great profit. But won’t consumers drive demand? That’s what I don’t get. Are consumers asking for Atmos? I feel like the earbud generation doesn’t give a shit. I’m in my mid-forties. I don’t give a shit. So, who’s caring enough that’s motivating these studio guys to drop tens of thousands of dollars on an Atmos setup? That is my point. Apple is pushing it, nobody is asking for it. I don’t care either but lots of gear manufacturers and mixers are seeing a big payday. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on May 13, 2023 19:52:11 GMT -6
As a music consumer, I’ve never given a single thought to ATMOS.
As a producer / engineer / mixer, also have never had a single thought for or against it.
The majority of music I’m working on lands between 2 million and 8 million Spotify plays and I think one album has north of 40 million? Not even sure I got correct credit on that…
Anyways, no massive big label bands are coming to me for a mix, and the only way I’m mixing a huge record would be if something I just regularly work on hits it huge. Which is a dream but I’m not exactly seeing that as reality.
So, yeah I’m not spending money on an Atmos system for work or for pleasure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2023 20:04:53 GMT -6
To sell you the same shit again because apparently 16-bit, 44.1 khz pcm isn’t good enough despite having a noise floor lower than an hvac system and most analog gear and nobody playing the music being able to hear flat to 22.05 khz.
Same as SACD (worse than cd), HDCD (worse than cd), MQA (worse than cd), DVD surround audio (nobody cared and home theater systems are typically worse than stereo systems if anyone has them), and SHM-CD (a cd made out of thicker plastic. I’m not joking. Thanks Japan)
Somebody thinks we need surround mixes of shit that went through CLA 76. Give me a break.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 13, 2023 20:55:13 GMT -6
It’s because they are trying to differentiate themselves from Spotify….if they can get everyone on board with ATMOS, then people will ditch non-ATMOS Spotify for an Apple Music sub. Follow the $. The gear manufacturers and ATMOS mixing engineers will happily oblige the big push to their own great profit. But won’t consumers drive demand? That’s what I don’t get. Are consumers asking for Atmos? I feel like the earbud generation doesn’t give a shit. I’m in my mid-forties. I don’t give a shit. So, who’s caring enough that’s motivating these studio guys to drop tens of thousands of dollars on an Atmos setup? They will and have, now hasn’t it been great for music in surround? |
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Post by tackhouse on May 14, 2023 8:20:01 GMT -6
I speculate that spatial audio is a key element of Apple’s planned virtual and augmented reality experience. Remember what a big deal it was when Apple settled with Apple, resulting in the Beatles catalog’s release on the iTunes Store and then Apple Music? Could be that Apple wants as much spatial audio content ready in Day zero of their upcoming headset launch to differentiate their VR/AR offer.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 14, 2023 10:39:08 GMT -6
I speculate that spatial audio is a key element of Apple’s planned virtual and augmented reality experience. Remember what a big deal it was when Apple settled with Apple, resulting in the Beatles catalog’s release on the iTunes Store and then Apple Music? Could be that Apple wants as much spatial audio content ready in Day zero of their upcoming headset launch to differentiate their VR/AR offer. Agreed, but I’ll add another related market: Apple CarPlay. If you put the DSP and routing in the software it simplifies what the hardware vendor needs to bring, and it’s over the air updatable. This is how you start thinking when you drive a Tesla. |
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Post by jmoose on May 14, 2023 14:07:37 GMT -6
But won’t consumers drive demand? That’s what I don’t get. Are consumers asking for Atmos? I feel like the earbud generation doesn’t give a shit. I’m in my mid-forties. I don’t give a shit. So, who’s caring enough that’s motivating these studio guys to drop tens of thousands of dollars on an Atmos setup? People like you & me aren't the consumers. No no. We're a byproduct. Statistics & data. The real consumers asking for this are corporate. Silicon Valley & advertising firms. And as mentioned... cars. Harman auto was 100 times larger then all the music stuff combined... dbx, digitech, Soundcraft... that's why Samsung bought Harman a few years ago. There's a Dolby approved Atmos mix shop not too far from me. Most of the work is broadcast & corporate... think they bill around $25k a month with NBC 4 NY? Which includes Telemundo & whatever else in that family. Think another big one over there is Ford. The NBA & NFL films. Nobody is calling them to mix a rock record. But for something like that? Yeah, sure $40k to remodel the studio? Pop in some new speakers & get everything calibrated? Cost of doing business. |
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Post by Ward on May 14, 2023 15:49:10 GMT -6
I'm wondering about and kind of waiting for modern country music to embrace Atmos in a "in the round" way where you are seated in the middle of the stage and you hear all the instruments around you performing and feel truly immersed in the experience.
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