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Post by plinker on May 3, 2023 9:57:43 GMT -6
Wondering, once again, why simple, old circuits like the Redd 47 aren't available as kits, I went searching and found this: general-audio-research.jimdofree.com/kit-pcb/How about a BA-2C or Redd47 on the cheap?? The BOM and build Doc is pretty straight-forward. Grab a JLM PSU and case and go! I'm starting to get itchy-finger for my soldering iron... |
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Post by plinker on May 3, 2023 10:54:25 GMT -6
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Post by svart on May 3, 2023 13:05:03 GMT -6
Wondering, once again, why simple, old circuits like the Redd 47 aren't available as kits, I went searching and found this: general-audio-research.jimdofree.com/kit-pcb/How about a BA-2C or Redd47 on the cheap?? The BOM and build Doc is pretty straight-forward. Grab a JLM PSU and case and go! I'm starting to get itchy-finger for my soldering iron... I know that for the Redd stuff, whomever bought the rights to that a few years ago went around threatening to sue folks using the name, so a lot of cloners changed the names or stopped doing the PCB/kits. I started a BA-2C-like preamp but haven't gotten around to finishing it. |
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Post by EmRR on May 3, 2023 13:08:31 GMT -6
BA-2, it’s all in the transformers, baby. REDD, eh….
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Post by plinker on May 3, 2023 23:01:48 GMT -6
Wondering, once again, why simple, old circuits like the Redd 47 aren't available as kits, I went searching and found this: general-audio-research.jimdofree.com/kit-pcb/How about a BA-2C or Redd47 on the cheap?? The BOM and build Doc is pretty straight-forward. Grab a JLM PSU and case and go! I'm starting to get itchy-finger for my soldering iron... I know that for the Redd stuff, whomever bought the rights to that a few years ago went around threatening to sue folks using the name, so a lot of cloners changed the names or stopped doing the PCB/kits. I started a BA-2C-like preamp but haven't gotten around to finishing it. Funny you mention that! I bought an "Orange 86" <wink, wink; nudge, nudge> PCB from a guy on GroupDIY years ago that I started and never finished. I should probably revisit that one... edit: it turns-out the support thread lives on: groupdiy.com/threads/orange-86-build-thread.33657/ |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on May 5, 2023 20:36:25 GMT -6
Wondering, once again, why simple, old circuits like the Redd 47 aren't available as kits, I went searching and found this: general-audio-research.jimdofree.com/kit-pcb/How about a BA-2C or Redd47 on the cheap?? The BOM and build Doc is pretty straight-forward. Grab a JLM PSU and case and go! I'm starting to get itchy-finger for my soldering iron... I know that for the Redd stuff, whomever bought the rights to that a few years ago went around threatening to sue folks using the name, so a lot of cloners changed the names or stopped doing the PCB/kits. I started a BA-2C-like preamp but haven't gotten around to finishing it. Wade is originally from KC, so over the years I have heard a bunch from friends: first the English intellectual property laws are different than the US and EMI is all about intellectual property. The Chandler / EMI deal requires Chandler to vigorously defend their IP, and pretty much all of Wades family is lawyers. |
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Post by plinker on May 5, 2023 20:51:28 GMT -6
Well, I figured it was something like that. I remember there was a clone many years ago that went for about $1500/channel. That person was ordered to "cease and desist" -- by Chandler, I'm guessing...
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Post by plinker on May 5, 2023 21:00:09 GMT -6
And not to kill my own thread, but if I want a good sounding 47-style toob preamp, the Weight Tank is a freakin' steal at $900!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 5, 2023 21:08:42 GMT -6
And not to kill my own thread, but if I want a good sounding 47-style toob preamp, the Weight Tank is a freakin' steal at $900! As a guy who has no problem saving $ by DIY, in the last 10 years it has gotten harder and harder to justify DIY to save $. We have seen the birth of lots of quality affordable clones. |
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Post by copperx on May 7, 2023 18:27:10 GMT -6
As a guy who has no problem saving $ by DIY, in the last 10 years it has gotten harder and harder to justify DIY to save $. We have seen the birth of lots of quality affordable clones. Yes, in many instances, DIY projects can be more costly than purchasing a clone. Consider, for example, the humble 1176 compressor. A Hairball 1176 costs $450, while a Sound Skulptor kit is approximately $380. On the other hand, you can acquire a Lindell 7x-500 for $300, which includes Carnhill (OEP) transformers, a Lin76 with larger knobs for $400, or even a used Warm Audio unit for a similar price. Nonetheless, some DIY projects offer a unique advantage: where else could you obtain an API/Neve clone equipped with Carnhill or Ed Anderson transformers for just $200 but AML and CAPI? |
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Post by svart on May 8, 2023 7:51:05 GMT -6
As a guy who has no problem saving $ by DIY, in the last 10 years it has gotten harder and harder to justify DIY to save $. We have seen the birth of lots of quality affordable clones. Yes, in many instances, DIY projects can be more costly than purchasing a clone. Consider, for example, the humble 1176 compressor. A Hairball 1176 costs $450, while a Sound Skulptor kit is approximately $380. On the other hand, you can acquire a Lindell 7x-500 for $300, which includes Carnhill (OEP) transformers, a Lin76 with larger knobs for $400, or even a used Warm Audio unit for a similar price. Nonetheless, some DIY projects offer a unique advantage: where else could you obtain an API/Neve clone equipped with Carnhill or Ed Anderson transformers for just $200 but AML and CAPI? In all honesty, I have dozens of various clones and real hardware units. It's barely noticeable what transformers and such are used. Even various eras of the same devices can sound wildly different. More often than not, the sound is in the topology of the circuit, not the components themselves. I spent decades doing the "I need specific era parts" builds trying to be as faithful as possible to the originals only to find that they don't sound much different than some cheap clone. Yes, you can certainly go down a rabbit hole spending as much as you want to build a clone, but I've built clones out of spare parts substituting whatever was called for and been just fine. I'm both happy and annoyed by the time and money I spent doing these things. I learned a lot, but the realization that it was mostly for naught is annoying. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 8, 2023 9:44:40 GMT -6
Yes, in many instances, DIY projects can be more costly than purchasing a clone. Consider, for example, the humble 1176 compressor. A Hairball 1176 costs $450, while a Sound Skulptor kit is approximately $380. On the other hand, you can acquire a Lindell 7x-500 for $300, which includes Carnhill (OEP) transformers, a Lin76 with larger knobs for $400, or even a used Warm Audio unit for a similar price. Nonetheless, some DIY projects offer a unique advantage: where else could you obtain an API/Neve clone equipped with Carnhill or Ed Anderson transformers for just $200 but AML and CAPI? In all honesty, I have dozens of various clones and real hardware units. It's barely noticeable what transformers and such are used. Even various eras of the same devices can sound wildly different. More often than not, the sound is in the topology of the circuit, not the components themselves. I spent decades doing the "I need specific era parts" builds trying to be as faithful as possible to the originals only to find that they don't sound much different than some cheap clone. Yes, you can certainly go down a rabbit hole spending as much as you want to build a clone, but I've built clones out of spare parts substituting whatever was called for and been just fine. I'm both happy and annoyed by the time and money I spent doing these things. I learned a lot, but the realization that it was mostly for naught is annoying. I have always wondered how many recreations of classic circuits need to be tuned because modern parts have such tighter tolerances 😁 We live in an interesting era where some parts have themselves become selling points, we have discussed before how some manufacturers like ALPs pots is meaningless because Alps makes everything from a $.20 to a $50 pot. |
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Post by copperx on May 8, 2023 10:13:53 GMT -6
Yes, in many instances, DIY projects can be more costly than purchasing a clone. Consider, for example, the humble 1176 compressor. A Hairball 1176 costs $450, while a Sound Skulptor kit is approximately $380. On the other hand, you can acquire a Lindell 7x-500 for $300, which includes Carnhill (OEP) transformers, a Lin76 with larger knobs for $400, or even a used Warm Audio unit for a similar price. Nonetheless, some DIY projects offer a unique advantage: where else could you obtain an API/Neve clone equipped with Carnhill or Ed Anderson transformers for just $200 but AML and CAPI? In all honesty, I have dozens of various clones and real hardware units. It's barely noticeable what transformers and such are used. Even various eras of the same devices can sound wildly different. More often than not, the sound is in the topology of the circuit, not the components themselves. I spent decades doing the "I need specific era parts" builds trying to be as faithful as possible to the originals only to find that they don't sound much different than some cheap clone. Yes, you can certainly go down a rabbit hole spending as much as you want to build a clone, but I've built clones out of spare parts substituting whatever was called for and been just fine. I'm both happy and annoyed by the time and money I spent doing these things. I learned a lot, but the realization that it was mostly for naught is annoying. I agree. The only places where going down that rabbit hole is justified imho is with microphones and pieces where you are double-blind certain that make a difference. Case in point, the last time I was looking for a 1073 clone I downloaded all the clips from all the clones available in the Clipalator and embarked on a multi-day blind test. After many hours of automated and manual gain matching, I concluded that all clones were more or less the same. Yes, there are some slight tonal variations but they're minimal. And they all had different transformers, some of them being the cheapest available. For example, the lauded Heritage to me sounded just like the GAP73. The only exceptions, and the ones that I could pick out easily, were the BAE clones. Those sounded almost like a compressor on the source. At the end, I just bought the GAP. |
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Post by EmRR on May 8, 2023 11:12:53 GMT -6
Well, all I do is shit older than dirt and you need similar era transformers that are in themselves similar to the orig or you won’t get the sound, and with some compressors, not the behavior either. Good ancient transformers have vastly higher winding resistance and inductance than most anything off the shelf today, Hammond 800 and 850 series being maybe the only exception. You also can’t get typical antique transformer ratios at all, which moves the gain figures.
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Post by audiospecific on Jan 3, 2024 6:25:11 GMT -6
Well, all I do is shit older than dirt and you need similar era transformers that are in themselves similar to the orig or you won’t get the sound, and with some compressors, not the behavior either. Good ancient transformers have vastly higher winding resistance and inductance than most anything off the shelf today, Hammond 800 and 850 series being maybe the only exception. You also can’t get typical antique transformer ratios at all, which moves the gain figures.
I've had luck having edcor make me good stuff. But I had to fork over my UTC design parameters for them to make it really nice.
Btw, A transformer guy I know that makes Metal Mu cans got a contract with Triad a few months ago to make HS series again.
Redd47, its kind of a beginner's preamp to make. Btw its not anything out of the ordinary. I remember RCA had that design in the 40s, and the UA version uses a triode as the gain tube. But several people have made that design (or one like it) but there are better designs out there people should make instead.
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