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Post by mcirish on Mar 30, 2023 10:00:26 GMT -6
I do a ton of acoustic recording; mandolin, fiddle, upright bass, guitar, etc. I've been thinking of getting a ribbon mic lately. I don't want to go with the inexpensive imports. Every time I buy something because it's inexpensive, I regret it and have to buy something better within a few months. My primary goal is to find a ribbon mic that is good on fiddle and possibly mandolin. I'm not looking for an odd limited bandwidth mic, so I'm not interested in using it on guitar cabinets at all. Think fiddle/violin. I always have to tame a bit of the high end scratch with a deesser. That works fine but maybe a different mic might be a better choice.
I've been looking at the Samar mics. Specifically, the AL95 and the VL37. While I would love a stereo pair, I'd rather have one great mic than two "ok" ribbon mics. For those with both the AL95 and VL37, what is the sonic difference? I know Mark is going for a full-range sound with his mics. Taming the scratch and adding to the woody tone of a fiddle is my concern.
Other options that you have used on fiddle? I'm hoping this doesn't become a list of every ribbon ever made. I have a specific purpose; fiddle
Used Coles 4038? (I saw that Eric Valentine used one on mandolin for the latest Nickel Creek album)
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Post by Vincent R. on Mar 30, 2023 10:53:53 GMT -6
Some people love 4038s on violins, particularly for classical solo pieces. 1K is a nice budget; AEA R84 could be an option. Maybe a used Royer 121.
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Post by ab101 on Mar 30, 2023 12:10:13 GMT -6
AEA R84 would be fine for violin. I have had AEA r84, AEA A-440 and AEA 44s, and Samar VL37s. If you can afford it, VL37s are a safe bet. However, I have not tried the AL95s, which are less money and may be great. Perhaps you should call Mark at Samar - he is a wealth of information and super great person!
Good luck!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2023 13:24:48 GMT -6
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Post by thehightenor on Mar 30, 2023 13:26:46 GMT -6
I don't have a big recording space so instead of the R84 (which is very lovely too) I went for the R92 which has less proximity effect and so you can use it closer.
Plus it has a dark side and a bright side so it's very versatile.
I've also never heard a better mic on a guitar cab.
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Post by collywobble on Mar 30, 2023 13:33:40 GMT -6
There are loads of excellent ribbon mics around within your budget. Samar, AEA, Coles, Royer, Extinct Audio, Hohm, Alder Audio, Stager, Audio-Technica, Beyer, Cloud... the list goes on.
One mic that I personally feel is under-rated is the Rode NTR. Because Rode are a mass market manufacturer I think people assume that the NTR is a cheap and cheerful mic. It really isn't, it's an incredible feat of engineering and has the broadest frequency response I've ever come across in a ribbon mic.
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Post by ab101 on Mar 30, 2023 13:50:06 GMT -6
There are loads of excellent ribbon mics around within your budget. Samar, AEA, Coles, Royer, Extinct Audio, Hohm, Alder Audio, Stager, Audio-Technica, Beyer, Cloud... the list goes on. One mic that I personally feel is under-rated is the Rode NTR. Because Rode are a mass market manufacturer I think people assume that the NTR is a cheap and cheerful mic. It really isn't, it's an incredible feat of engineering and has the broadest frequency response I've ever come across in a ribbon mic. I agree. Beyer M160s are always great to have around and would be great on violin. I like my Samar vl37s for this purpose. I have not tried the lesser expensive Samars, but the examples I have heard from others, it sounds great. |
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Post by sean on Mar 30, 2023 19:05:32 GMT -6
I have a pair of Samar VL37’s and while I do like the way they sound, their sensitivity to RF has made them unusable a lot of times. Same with AL95s…which I bought for a remote project a few years ago and they were so noisy I immediately sold them. Area/location specific, I’m sure, but at least in my studio and in a remote location where it was literally the only house in several miles, I couldn’t use them.
Also, sometimes a ribbon mic can be a bit “chewy” or unnaturally thick. I’d say 95% of the time I end up using a KM84, but there are a few times where I’ll grab a Coles or a Royer 121 or the Samar if it’s an especially bright instrument
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Post by Blackdawg on Mar 31, 2023 0:10:42 GMT -6
My favorite ribbon on violins is the AEA N8. Very natural and brings all the good stuff out. I use them on spots for sessions all the time.
Coles also sees use from me on string spots, mainly cellos.
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Post by honkeur on Mar 31, 2023 2:48:40 GMT -6
If you will be recording a full group live in a space that isn’t large, the Beyerdynamic M160 is super-useful. The hypercardiod pattern eliminates all the worries about bleed. It’s really the best tool for this style of recording. I use it on viola, violin, drum overheads, guitar amps, flute, soprano sax.
To me, the M160 has a crazy super-power: it removes harshness but leaves an articulate clarity in the upper-mids. The highs are “vintage”, smooth and subtle, but if something needs to sound “modern” or more in-your-face, it takes EQ well.
Not many other ribbons out there that are uni-directional: the AEA KU5A and one by Stager.
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Post by niklas1073 on Mar 31, 2023 3:17:47 GMT -6
You have a lot of great options on the table here. One that hasnt been mentioned which I use a lot is the AT4080 (and their sibling 4081). Not very expensive, great build quality, great sound. I use them as overheads on my drums, often on vocals and acoustic guitars or guitar amps. Bluegrass stuff I’ve used my pair as blumlein, awesome. They shine on all of these. Really balanced sound, takes a lot of spl, active circuit, and they're built less fragile to many others. Solid workhorses, Worth taking a look at.
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rpc
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Post by rpc on Mar 31, 2023 7:02:35 GMT -6
I've owned the SAMAR VL37 and now own a pair of AL95. They're both gorgeous sounding mikes; the AL95 has deeper low end and lower distortion (so less of that vintage ribbon sound). As Sean notes above, they're sensitive to RF. Mark fitted my VL37s with mu-metal cups on the transformers which helped immensely; unfortunately the AL95 body is too small to allow for that. Also unfortunately, I didn't find out until after I had sold the VL37s!
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Post by mcirish on Mar 31, 2023 8:34:24 GMT -6
Thanks for all the suggestions. I appreciate it. I 'was" kind of set on the Samar but the RF issue would be a real problem and I can't afford to buy twice. The AEA R84 is looking like a contender. I do have a lot of Audio Technica mics. I never really thought about their ribbons though.
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Post by niklas1073 on Mar 31, 2023 8:42:58 GMT -6
Thanks for all the suggestions. I appreciate it. I 'was" kind of set on the Samar but the RF issue would be a real problem and I can't afford to buy twice. The AEA R84 is looking like a contender. I do have a lot of Audio Technica mics. I never really thought about their ribbons though. I actually first got into AT because of the ribbons. They were in my budget for a pair and i gave them a shot. Never looked back. Since then I’ve got other AT’s too because I really like the precise Japanese quality. They might not have the character I can find in other, more vintage line ribbons. But they are fat and I feel they eq like no other mic I own, condenser or ribbon. |
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Post by Ward on Mar 31, 2023 10:04:54 GMT -6
My Top mics for recording fiddle and mandolin:
royer 121 for slightly brighter
AEA 84 for slightly darker or mellower
For acoustics, Samar VL37
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Post by sean on Mar 31, 2023 11:25:23 GMT -6
I've owned the SAMAR VL37 and now own a pair of AL95. They're both gorgeous sounding mikes; the AL95 has deeper low end and lower distortion (so less of that vintage ribbon sound). As Sean notes above, they're sensitive to RF. Mark fitted my VL37s with mu-metal cups on the transformers which helped immensely; unfortunately the AL95 body is too small to allow for that. Also unfortunately, I didn't find out until after I had sold the VL37s! I’ll have to ask Mark if he could do this for my pair! I’d like to be able to use them more |
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Post by mrgkeys on Mar 31, 2023 11:38:41 GMT -6
Stager has never let me down for this. Sounds awesome and super quick too.
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Post by Ward on Mar 31, 2023 11:39:51 GMT -6
I've owned the SAMAR VL37 and now own a pair of AL95. They're both gorgeous sounding mikes; the AL95 has deeper low end and lower distortion (so less of that vintage ribbon sound). As Sean notes above, they're sensitive to RF. Mark fitted my VL37s with mu-metal cups on the transformers which helped immensely; unfortunately the AL95 body is too small to allow for that. Also unfortunately, I didn't find out until after I had sold the VL37s! I've never ever once had this issue with my VL37 microphones. I've used them in a TON of applications, even fiddle - close and distant. Granted, my studio is well built and has all precautions taken for interference. |
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Post by recordingengineer on Mar 31, 2023 12:04:11 GMT -6
I too have never had any RF issues with my VL37A; but I too have used it only in a studio with necessary precautions.
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Post by tasteliketape on Mar 31, 2023 12:05:31 GMT -6
Plus1 on no VL37 issues. Recorded mandolin and fiddle last week for a tv theme with my Samar vl37 pair .
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Post by hadaja on Mar 31, 2023 13:43:13 GMT -6
+1 on no issues on my Samar al95’s.
I dont have a pro studio setup, I have spent very little money on grounding RF issues.
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rpc
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Post by rpc on Mar 31, 2023 13:45:31 GMT -6
Yeah, there are plenty of spaces where the VL37 and AL95 work for me, too. It's just that as an on-location recordist I run into some pretty heavy RF. I simply tired of having to bring backup mikes "just in case." But I do love their sound - maybe it's time to get out some capacitors and common-mode chokes and see what I can do.
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Post by EmRR on Mar 31, 2023 14:27:15 GMT -6
The Samar RF thing is strange, I too have had no issues in a decade+ with various Samar ribbons in a bunch of different locations. I'd put them on just about anything.
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Post by mcirish on Mar 31, 2023 18:35:56 GMT -6
I guess I need to rethink my rethinking...
VL37 or AL95 or R84?
Choices
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Post by RealNoob on Mar 31, 2023 21:48:20 GMT -6
I know its under your price point but my AL95 sounds amazing on violin - deep, meaty and no harsh top end. My player plays a $30K instrument which can be considered cheap, which is crazy.
Most of the time, it is on stage (recording) with multiple wireless mics in a populated area (West Houston). It has been clean as a whistle regarding RF or any other kind of interference.
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