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Post by hadaja on Jun 18, 2014 0:32:09 GMT -6
So does anyone use clean compressors.
We all lust for compressors with the biggest transformers, the most iron the hottest valves, we crave colour, we crave warmth, we crave smooth transients....
I do love a good sounding compressor and what it can do to crunch up a nice guitar lick but I am yet to jump on the band wagon and get a clean compressor.
Why do people want one and what would there uses be?
Surely ITB comps can provide all the clean you want???
I was having this discussion with another engineer and now I think I would like to personally explore this and buy a nice hi-end clean compressor and see what it does.
Over to you gentleman......
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Post by henge on Jun 18, 2014 4:58:10 GMT -6
Well the FMR RNC is very clean and very inexpensive. Simple, effective and clean!;-)
For software the DC8C or the comp that came with your DAW would be clean.
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Post by Ward on Jun 18, 2014 6:29:10 GMT -6
Focusrite Red 3
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Post by dandeurloo on Jun 18, 2014 8:34:00 GMT -6
Jim Williams modded aphex 661's are great for clean stuff. The Serpent sb4001 with grind out is nice and clean.
Also, this is where some software comps are good for a few db of reduction.
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Post by svart on Jun 18, 2014 8:38:45 GMT -6
I use a symetrix 525. It's pretty clean and transparent. It only has a threshold and volume knob. the rest is automatic. You can hardly tell it's working aside from the level being more steady.
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Post by cenafria on Jun 18, 2014 9:01:21 GMT -6
So does anyone use clean compressors. We all lust for compressors with the biggest transformers, the most iron the hottest valves, we crave colour, we crave warmth, we crave smooth transients.... I do love a good sounding compressor and what it can do to crunch up a nice guitar lick but I am yet to jump on the band wagon and get a clean compressor. Why do people want one and what would there uses be? Surely ITB comps can provide all the clean you want??? I was having this discussion with another engineer and now I think I would like to personally explore this and buy a nice hi-end clean compressor and see what it does. Over to you gentleman...... I use clean compression all the time. While getting sounds that I realise will need compression, it's usually a case of "that's sounding great, too bad I have to compress it. What will do the least damage...?" The Distressor can be fairly clean. The RNC 1773 as well. The LA22... How you dial in the compressor obviously makes a big difference. A lot of the sessions here are on tape (about 60/40 at the moment), so plug ins are not an option, really. |
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Post by svart on Jun 18, 2014 9:08:24 GMT -6
Another thing is... Don't use any compressor very heavily and they won't impart much sound onto the source. use more instances of light compression rather than fewer instances of heavy compression and you'll get cleaner level management rather than "effects".
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 18, 2014 9:37:21 GMT -6
Aphex 651's not only measure .002% THD, the slew rate is decent. They shine with extreme compression too. This is because of the high frequency expander, it maskes the compression effect and restores the lost high frequency details you always loose with higher amounts of compression.
They also have the widest adjustment range and up to 50/1 ratios.
A guy at the Record Plant said it best:
"It's like there's a little man inside running a fader up and down who's smarter and faster than we are".
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Post by jeromemason on Jun 18, 2014 11:55:27 GMT -6
The Transformerless Pico's are clean. VCA too and I believe it's Foote that makes them. A lot of people swear by them for clean compression.
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Post by deehope on Jun 18, 2014 12:27:11 GMT -6
I can't imagine anything being cleaner then a Jim Williams modded Aphex 651. The only way you can tell it's even been compressed is by looking at the file. It's invisible. So does anyone use clean compressors. We all lust for compressors with the biggest transformers, the most iron the hottest valves, we crave colour, we crave warmth, we crave smooth transients.... I do love a good sounding compressor and what it can do to crunch up a nice guitar lick but I am yet to jump on the band wagon and get a clean compressor. Why do people want one and what would there uses be? Surely ITB comps can provide all the clean you want??? I was having this discussion with another engineer and now I think I would like to personally explore this and buy a nice hi-end clean compressor and see what it does. Over to you gentleman...... |
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Post by Ward on Jun 18, 2014 14:12:31 GMT -6
Modded or not, a VCA is inherently not clean. I suppose a primmer is in order to yet again explain the differences between the 4 primary types of gain reduction principles but suffice it to say for now...and I'm going to keep this overly simplified. Experts can argue with me if they like, and point out what I'm leaving out, but I'm donig that on purpose. VCA = voltage controlled AMPLIFIER. Resulting distortion from gain reduction is part of the amplifier circuit. Think about the famous 'SSL crunch'. Vari-Mu. Reactive controlled voltage circuit inside a vacuum tube (valve)... low level amounts of soft overdrive can occur. Optical. a circuit that employs a light element to reduce voltage passing through in response to a rise in incoming voltage level. Arguably the cleanest operating principal amongst compression and limiting types. FET = Field Effect Transistor. Similar to VCA above but works similar to a vacuum tube circuit with much quicker reaction time. Distortion occurs as part of the process, again as part of the operating principle of the design. References: www.barryrudolph.com/mix/comp.html A link from the purple placewww.soundonsound.com/sos/jun11/articles/logic-tech-0611.htmand I could list many others... including some of my earliest posts here, if you care to go digging. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2014 17:31:21 GMT -6
Ward, may be, jerome and you are talking different things.... I absolutely am with you that older vca compressors are definitely not clean. The Pico used a modern, very clean sounding vca that cannot be compared with the older dbx stuff or the that2150 design. So, vca compressors nowadays *can* be very clean sounding (e.g. the Pico is definitely one of them), most older ones do definitely not... Best regards, Martin
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Post by hadaja on Jun 18, 2014 19:02:39 GMT -6
Well the comp I am looking at is an Opto with reported very low Distortion and no transformers. There is very little "user" info on these units and I no its going to be more of a clean unit. I have these "translator" transformers (info at bottom of thread) I am thinking of using on the output. I want to have the option of getting some colour when I want it. Is there any other such devices out there like the "Translator"? And what is your favourite brand of transformer you like in compressors and/or producing that sound that you love on general recording duties? I will need to get an input transformer device similar to the "translator" www.broadcastproaudio.com/new/AT_review.pdf |
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Post by jimwilliams on Jun 19, 2014 10:01:21 GMT -6
Opto's create their own distortion problems from how they are interfaced. If used in front of a bipolar amplifier, bias current shifts can cause errors and DC shifts. De-couple it with a cap and you add a resistive thermal noise source. Use a non-inverting jfet opamp and you have another form of THD from a modulating input impedance. Opto's may be clean by themselves but they also open up another bag of problems when you use them, including matching and a gain range that is variable to each device.
Some VCA designs are rather dirty, look at older dbx fet based 202 cans for those examples. Modern dbx VCA's are improved, the that corp 2180 series can do .007%, a bit better than the .02% from earlier 2150 integrated VCA designs found in 160X comps. The 4300 series VCA's include detectors and the VCA, some versions throw in a mediocre opamp to save design effort/parts. The Foot uses one of those VCA's, they measure about .01% THD. It was designed as a low cost part, I've used them in MI bass amp designs.
The Aphex VCA is a little different, it's a differential VCA design that cancels a lot of THD compared to single ended designs like the that 2180 VCA's. Those do .002%, best in class. So far I've not heard of anyone that can hear that error.
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Post by Ward on Jun 19, 2014 10:05:51 GMT -6
And the THD specs for today's OPTO designs are still at around 0.02%THD?
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Post by ephi82 on Jun 22, 2014 7:56:49 GMT -6
Well the FMR RNC is very clean and very inexpensive. Simple, effective and clean!;-) For software the DC8C or the comp that came with your DAW would be clean. +1 RNC |
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Post by hadaja on Jul 13, 2014 0:39:18 GMT -6
Well I have a few weeks to play with the Al.So Hellax compressor and it is definitely a clean style OPTO compressor. It does not sound "plasticky" like some other clean units I have used. It takes a while playing with the parameters (that dont seem very Linear) but it does bring a smile to the dial when you hit the right mark.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2014 14:51:48 GMT -6
I'm not a clean or distorted person it just has to sound right. To my ears the SSL Channel Compression always sounds right on drums, distressors are cool. Even 100% ITB I don't think I use anything that I would call clean, maybe the Clariphonic but that's about it.
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Post by littlesicily on Jul 13, 2014 18:04:58 GMT -6
STC-8!!
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