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Post by bossanova on Dec 8, 2022 12:18:41 GMT -6
I thought I was done buying hardware, and then this drops yesterday with a price and a plausible release target…
For context, I was on the verge of buying myself a Prophet 6 for Xmas, my wife talked me down, and after that I felt like it was absurd to spend that much on a synth when ITB modeling is at such a high level these days. But $600 for 8 VCO voices is something I can get behind.
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Post by Ward on Dec 9, 2022 9:43:50 GMT -6
The words B----------- and Pro seem very odd companions.
But anyhow, nice demo.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 9, 2022 10:39:27 GMT -6
The words B----------- and Pro seem very odd companions. But anyhow, nice demo. Yet it’s their favorite word! |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 9, 2022 11:41:26 GMT -6
Seems to have good tone and sonics .
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Post by drbill on Dec 9, 2022 22:34:28 GMT -6
The words B----------- and Pro seem very odd companions. But anyhow, nice demo. Of course the "pro" is for prophet - not professional Wade. LOL. They might as well have called it the prophet. They even stole the SCI font, knob style, look, etc.. I've got quite a few hours behind both a p5 and a p600, and it does sound similar, and really warm. But I hated the demo. Maybe that's what kids want to hear. Still, if I was in the market, I'd go for it. Hearing the basics, I can tell it's capable of putting out some really great sounds. And one gripe. I really HATE those membrane switches. Nothing but trouble back in the day, and with a cheap Chinese clone, I'm sure nothing but trouble in the future. They should have abandoned those and gone to something more durable. |
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Post by bossanova on Dec 9, 2022 23:35:28 GMT -6
The words B----------- and Pro seem very odd companions. But anyhow, nice demo. Of course the "pro" is for prophet - not professional Wade. LOL. They might as well have called it the prophet. They even stole the SCI font, knob style, look, etc.. I've got quite a few hours behind both a p5 and a p600, and it does sound similar, and really warm. But I hated the demo. Maybe that's what kids want to hear. Still, if I was in the market, I'd go for it. Hearing the basics, I can tell it's capable of putting out some really great sounds. And one gripe. I really HATE those membrane switches. Nothing but trouble back in the day, and with a cheap Chinese clone, I'm sure nothing but trouble in the future. They should have abandoned those and gone to something more durable. The word on the street is that the membrane is just an overlay to match the appearance of the original, and there are more robust, modern buttons underneath. |
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Post by ragan on Dec 10, 2022 0:20:33 GMT -6
The last couple of Behringer things I’ve bought (including a synth, the Poly D) have been tanks. I know we’re supposed to hate Behringer cause they’ve been cancelled by the gear elites, but I dunno, I like stuff that works well and doesn’t break the bank. Not very gear-litically correct I know.
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Post by sirthought on Dec 10, 2022 2:13:35 GMT -6
The band I've been producing had a Juno 106 go down twice during the project. They decided to get a DeepMind 12 and that thing is awesome. They have other Moogs and Roland's and I like the Behringer better. They all still have their own sound, but this is flexible with both modern and vintage vibe. I would look at this.
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 10, 2022 5:14:49 GMT -6
The last couple of Behringer things I’ve bought (including a synth, the Poly D) have been tanks. I know we’re supposed to hate Behringer cause they’ve been cancelled by the gear elites, but I dunno, I like stuff that works well and doesn’t break the bank. Not very gear-litically correct I know. +1 I've bought a Behringer X32 Compact (not that cheap to buy actually!) and a Behringer X18 Air for my PA and they're really great - and excellent value for money. I tried a Behringer Deepmind 12 in a store and I thought it sounded great - though I ended up buying the U-he Repro 5 and Softube 84 instead. Behringer are a mixed bag, some of their super budget gear is rubbish, but their higher end offerings have actually become more than useable and blinking great value for money. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 10, 2022 9:40:37 GMT -6
I do appreciate B bringing back the classics that have been "out of print".
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 10, 2022 12:09:48 GMT -6
I do appreciate B bringing back the classics that have been "out of print". Your just worried Uli’s Xeroxing a new product “the Bronze Bullet Pro”😁 |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2022 12:21:04 GMT -6
I do appreciate B bringing back the classics that have been "out of print". Your just worried Uli’s Xeroxing a new product “the Bronze Bullet Pro”😁 Wait until Uli figures out how to make 2520s with Jamicons and cheap transformers too  |
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Post by m03 on Dec 11, 2022 12:08:58 GMT -6
They might as well have called it the prophet. How about a compromise...call it the "Profit". |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 11, 2022 12:31:18 GMT -6
They might as well have called it the prophet. How about a compromise...call it the "Profit". To close, and they would have if the legal fees wouldn’t cut I too to the Profit and made it Pro anyway |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 12, 2022 13:15:30 GMT -6
Your just worried Uli’s Xeroxing a new product “the Bronze Bullet Pro”😁 Wait until Uli figures out how to make 2520s with Jamicons and cheap transformers too I am surprised he hasn’t! Years before the KT stuff a couple of us were sitting at a bar and we all had this same collective thought “ I wonder how much time Uli and his minions spend on GroupDIY lurking for projects?” |
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Post by lpedrum on Dec 12, 2022 21:52:25 GMT -6
The last couple of Behringer things I’ve bought (including a synth, the Poly D) have been tanks. I know we’re supposed to hate Behringer cause they’ve been cancelled by the gear elites, but I dunno, I like stuff that works well and doesn’t break the bank. Not very gear-litically correct I know. Totally agree. Folks that have a horse in the race, either by selling gear or having big $$$ invested in high end gear love to mock Behringer. The rest of us are just trying to make music in an industry where wages flatlined decades ago. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 13, 2022 16:27:54 GMT -6
I think for most at this point the behringer hate is more about them stealing designs than the stuff breaking down.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 13, 2022 17:47:36 GMT -6
I think for most at this point the behringer hate is more about them stealing designs than the stuff breaking down. That is the main thing, the professionals amongst us and those who wish to be understand our compensation is based on intellectual property rights, to see someone tread all over the intellectual property rights of those who have built reasonable priced tools for us to simply deliver lower quality tools at lower prices seam wrong. |
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Post by drbill on Dec 13, 2022 20:12:37 GMT -6
I think for most at this point the behringer hate is more about them stealing designs than the stuff breaking down. That is the main thing, the professionals amongst us and those who wish to be understand our compensation is based on intellectual property rights, to see someone tread all over the intellectual property rights of those who have built reasonable priced tools for us to simply deliver lower quality tools at lower prices seam wrong. Exactly. Anyone who wants to make money off their creative works (music) should honor the creative work of others. Where would synths be without Dave Smith? |
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Post by ab101 on Dec 13, 2022 22:15:07 GMT -6
That is the main thing, the professionals amongst us and those who wish to be understand our compensation is based on intellectual property rights, to see someone tread all over the intellectual property rights of those who have built reasonable priced tools for us to simply deliver lower quality tools at lower prices seam wrong. Exactly. Anyone who wants to make money off their creative works (music) should honor the creative work of others. Where would synths be without Dave Smith? +1 and more. This is the Golden Rule. |
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Post by ragan on Dec 13, 2022 22:47:25 GMT -6
Yeah, point(s) taken. Behringer has done some of that rip-off stuff, which justifies some of the heat they take.
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Post by lpedrum on Dec 13, 2022 23:50:18 GMT -6
That is the main thing, the professionals amongst us and those who wish to be understand our compensation is based on intellectual property rights, to see someone tread all over the intellectual property rights of those who have built reasonable priced tools for us to simply deliver lower quality tools at lower prices seam wrong. Exactly. Anyone who wants to make money off their creative works (music) should honor the creative work of others. Where would synths be without Dave Smith? I get that. But the line can get pretty fuzzy in a myriad of ways when it comes to property rights and gear. Adhering strictly to that ethos I shouldn't have purchased an AudioScape Opto comp for $1100 but instead bought a UA LA2A for $4600. And considering the guts of an LA2A $4600 hardly seems like a "reasonably priced tool." I'm not taking Behringer's "side." They deserve a lot of the criticism they've received. But sometimes I feel that it's too easy for folks that have amassed outboard gear over the span of decades to shoot down the opportunity for a twenty-something to build a studio he or she can actually afford. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 14, 2022 6:55:49 GMT -6
Exactly. Anyone who wants to make money off their creative works (music) should honor the creative work of others. Where would synths be without Dave Smith? I get that. But the line can get pretty fuzzy in a myriad of ways when it comes to property rights and gear. Adhering strictly to that ethos I shouldn't have purchased an AudioScape Opto comp for $1100 but instead bought a UA LA2A for $4600. And considering the guts of an LA2A $4600 hardly seems like a "reasonably priced tool." I'm not taking Behringer's "side." They deserve a lot of the criticism they've received. But sometimes I feel that it's too easy for folks that have amassed outboard gear over the span of decades to shoot down the opportunity for a twenty-something to build a studio he or she can actually afford. The line is only fuzzy in the eyes of a buyer, from a gear manufacturers point of view it’s crystal clear; has the pattent or trade mark expired? Fuzzy ? We are talking about Behringer the guys who made such a good copy of an Aphex that it said Aphex on the PCB ! The price of reproduction of LA2’s 1176’s Neve etc went down because the market expanded for these products and it didn’t hurt that a lot of the non critical parts are now sourced from China. Simply go look at what kind of discount you can get on something as simple as a resistor if you move down the columns by buying in quantity. When I had my ADL’s I know Anthony built them, my Purple MC76’s were built by Andrew. These were basically one or 2 man shops. |
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Post by lpedrum on Dec 14, 2022 17:41:07 GMT -6
I get that. But the line can get pretty fuzzy in a myriad of ways when it comes to property rights and gear. Adhering strictly to that ethos I shouldn't have purchased an AudioScape Opto comp for $1100 but instead bought a UA LA2A for $4600. And considering the guts of an LA2A $4600 hardly seems like a "reasonably priced tool." I'm not taking Behringer's "side." They deserve a lot of the criticism they've received. But sometimes I feel that it's too easy for folks that have amassed outboard gear over the span of decades to shoot down the opportunity for a twenty-something to build a studio he or she can actually afford. The line is only fuzzy in the eyes of a buyer, from a gear manufacturers point of view it’s crystal clear; has the pattent or trade mark expired? Fuzzy ? We are talking about Behringer the guys who made such a good copy of an Aphex that it said Aphex on the PCB ! The price of reproduction of LA2’s 1176’s Neve etc went down because the market expanded for these products and it didn’t hurt that a lot of the non critical parts are now sourced from China. Simply go look at what kind of discount you can get on something as simple as a resistor if you move down the columns by buying in quantity. When I had my ADL’s I know Anthony built them, my Purple MC76’s were built by Andrew. These were basically one or 2 man shops. As much as I like to be an educated buyer, I don't have the time or knowledge to understand who owns a patent or trademark. Are you aware of who owns the copyright to the Prophet synths Behringer is cloning? Are companies like Sweetwater breaking the law in selling them? Are we talking about ethics or legalities in this case? In regards to the ethics of buying LA2A and 76 clones, I'm not sure if I understand your point above. Are you saying if I buy clones from a small two man shop they get an ethical pass but Behringer should not? I'm honestly not trying to waste our time arguing Eric, and I find most of your posts here highly educational. I'm not an apologist for Behringer. I own one powered speaker they made (still works fine) and one crappy plastic pedal that's meh. If someone refuses to buy Behringer because of past sins I fully respect that. |
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Post by ericn on Dec 14, 2022 19:15:55 GMT -6
The line is only fuzzy in the eyes of a buyer, from a gear manufacturers point of view it’s crystal clear; has the pattent or trade mark expired? Fuzzy ? We are talking about Behringer the guys who made such a good copy of an Aphex that it said Aphex on the PCB ! The price of reproduction of LA2’s 1176’s Neve etc went down because the market expanded for these products and it didn’t hurt that a lot of the non critical parts are now sourced from China. Simply go look at what kind of discount you can get on something as simple as a resistor if you move down the columns by buying in quantity. When I had my ADL’s I know Anthony built them, my Purple MC76’s were built by Andrew. These were basically one or 2 man shops. As much as I like to be an educated buyer, I don't have the time or knowledge to understand who owns a patent or trademark. Are you aware of who owns the copyright to the Prophet synths Behringer is cloning? Are companies like Sweetwater breaking the law in selling them? Are we talking about ethics or legalities in this case? In regards to the ethics of buying LA2A and 76 clones, I'm not sure if I understand your point above. Are you saying if I buy clones from a small two man shop they get an ethical pass but Behringer should not? I'm honestly not trying to waste our time arguing Eric, and I find most of your posts here highly educational. I'm not an apologist for Behringer. I own one powered speaker they made (still works fine) and one crappy plastic pedal that's meh. If someone refuses to buy Behringer because of past sins I fully respect that. Thank fully the dealer has never been sued for selling a product that violates a patent or trademark, unlike Behringer ( never found guilty, but has settled many lawsuits). Those who clone Old Neve and LA2’s get a pass because the patents and trademarks have all expired years ago. As far as the old Prophet IP I have no idea, if someone feels their IP rights have been violated it is their responsibility to defend them with vigor. The problem is that Uli and company have shown they will fight and have deep pockets to pay lawyers. Unfortunately lawyers require cash for IP defense work so most smaller vendors can’t afford to defend their IP and even if they do it is hard to recover for the lack of revenue and exposure a Behringer dead ringer takes away. Many a good company has fallen and we as an industry have lost a hell of a lot of talent that came up with innovative products in the mid price arena many are now in the very me too world of install products. |
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